Billy Wagner: In or Out???

[UKMustangFan]

701 G

752 IP

38-34

350 SVs (7th All-Time)

2.34 ERA

992 SO

 

What say you? Keep in mind he is only 36, and will most likely be playing another 4-5 years....

[Jim Schue]

He's going to need to continue to dominate, and that probably still won't be enough. If I'm a hitter, I certainly don't fear him more than I would Lee Arthur Smith in his prime.

[RockPride]

If he keeps this scoreless streak up...and finishes with a monster year or two, he's in.

[STRIKE3]

Need several more years of solid closing.

[Kingfish Stevens]

Need several more years of solid closing.

 

 

Agreed.

[sweet16]

Need several more years of solid closing.

 

 

I agree but I also think the voters need to start voting more closers in. It is a big part of the game and they need to be recognized as the best from their positions in their era.

[STRIKE3]

I agree but I also think the voters need to start voting more closers in. It is a big part of the game and they need to be recognized as the best from their positions in their era.

I understand your point but if more "Closers" start getting attention, I can see the scrutiny of their numbers, creating considerable debate.

 

For example, is it based off just "Save" or ERA, WHIP, Holds, Innings pitched, what about set-up men. It would bring in, a lot of nominees, who may never garnish any discussion.

[sweet16]

I understand your point but if more "Closers" start getting attention, I can see the scrutiny of their numbers, creating considerable debate.

 

.

 

 

and the other positions are not debated? LOL, I remember the Whitaker/Biggio debate a couple of weeks ago.

 

It would be the same as other positions, who dominated in their era.

[STRIKE3]

and the other positions are not debated? LOL, I remember the Whitaker/Biggio debate a couple of weeks ago.

 

It would be the same as other positions, who dominated in their era.

Sure but those are offensive hitting numbers and defensive related. What is a guy, has 300 saves and a 4.50 ERA....is he getting his job done and one of the best or a guy with 200 saves and a 1.50 ERA.

 

What about the guy, who is the set-up man and rarely allows a base-runner but never gets the save accolades, or middle reliever. Closers get the glory but others, get the innings.

[sweet16]

Sure but those are offensive hitting numbers and defensive related. What is a guy, has 300 saves and a 4.50 ERA....is he getting his job done and one of the best or a guy with 200 saves and a 1.50 ERA.

 

What about the guy, who is the set-up man and rarely allows a base-runner but never gets the save accolades, or middle reliever. Closers get the glory but others, get the innings.

 

 

We compare starting pitchers all the time, I don't see how that is any different than comparing closers and their staffs. You have to look at the whole body of work. I just don't think voters give closers a look just like DHs will have to be looked at in the upcoming years.

[STRIKE3]

We compare starting pitchers all the time, I don't see how that is any different than comparing closers and their staffs. You have to look at the whole body of work. I just don't think voters give closers a look just like DHs will have to be looked at in the upcoming years.

I understand but with starters, you can see an average of 5-6 innings per start, where closers are 1 and done, 2 on a blown save.

[sweet16]

I understand but with starters, you can see an average of 5-6 innings per start, where closers are 1 and done, 2 on a blown save.

 

 

But you can not let closers in just because they are viewed in a different light. just like any other player trying to get in the HOF, you have to look at the entire body of work. There are some closers that should be in.

[STRIKE3]

But you can not let closers in just because they are viewed in a different light. Just like any other player trying to get in the HOF, you have to look at the entire body of work. There are some closers that should be in.

That is why I said, I can see the scrutiny of their numbers, creating considerable debate, not that they be excluded.

 

Lee Smith, certainly is on the top of any list, for closers in the HOF.

[UKMustangFan]

If Wagner plays 5 more seasons at this same pace, he'll have the all-time save record. I don't see how that won't get him in.

[sweet16]

That is why I said, I can see the scrutiny of their numbers, creating considerable debate, not that they be excluded.

 

Lee Smith, certainly is on the top of any list, for closers in the HOF.

 

 

But like I said before there is scrutiny with all players' numbers (ex. biggio/whitaker) they will always go on. The debate is what makes it so great.

 

 

I agree on Smith, he should be a HOFer.