I will take this in small bites.

 

None of the other characters INCLUDING luke and leia were the central points of the 6-part story. The story was about ONE MAN, Anakin Skywalker and his battle within himself between good and evil.

 

Han, Luke, Leia, Obiwan, etc, was supporting characters.

 

Now when you start with 4-5-6, you don't realize that. But with 1-2-3, it becomes evident that Anakin is the central part of this story and not Luke.

 

It seems your contention is that you don't agree with what Lucas feels is the central part of the story. That is fine but does not mean it is not a good story.

 

Personally, I enjoyed 1-2-3 more than I enjoyed 4-5-6.

 

Well what makes it not a good story is how it was presented, written directed and acted. Sorry but I have seen student films with better writing directing and acting. Had Lucas done what he did with Empire and Jedi they likely would have been passable films in my opinion.

 

Those two he did no direct and he only co-wrote them. The problem there is the arrogance of one man wanting to do it all, now that he has the money to do so and all the fame of the previous years going to his head there was nothing that was going to stop him.

 

The only other problem with it being about one man, is the fact that if it was indeed about just one person then why in the world did that one person not get more screen time than he did in 4-6? Luke, Leia and Han all got more screen time. I don't mind it being about the descent to evil and redemption of one man. In fact that intruiged me greatly when I found out he was going to do the prequels. Even if they were supporting characters they were STILL better developed than their main character was in 3 films. Anakin was a flat character, sorry. I still feel writing and directing are to blame there; had the character come across a little differently then I probably could have been okay with it.

 

Problem was that he did nothing to make me care about Anakin. He was a whiney little guy who I was ecstatic to see fall to the dark side because at LEAST we would get mediocre action.

Your point on the Clone Wars is that is not the central part of the story that Lucas wanted to tell. He wanted to tell a story of the good and evil that was battling within one man.

 

His story was not to tell the Clone Wars but rather that was the setting for this battle going on in one man.

 

Then he could have started out at the end of the Clone Wars and focused on the raging conflict within Anakin. I never really felt much of a raging conflict going on there. At least a believable one.

I liked the handling of Darth Vader till the temper tantrum. I agree.

 

BUT, I understand it. When you lose a loved one, one that you had worked your whole life in trying to prevent their loss, the grief is overwhelming. And for a Jedi/Sith, that overwhelming grief, I would assume, could lead you to lose momentarily control over your power, resulting in the damage done in the areas around him. Outside of the fact that he was trying to kill her though, right?

 

As far as the Sith, evil has powers. And sometimes that power is equal to the good being used similarly. The Emperor was more powerful and able to shield himself and the Jedi did not realize that.

 

I believe Anakin had inklings that the Emperor was who he was before the came to that full revelation but his desire to prevent the loss of Padme overwhelmed his fear of the Sith. More importantly his arrogance lead him to believe he could personally handle the evil. How many times have we seen that in real life? If indeed he did there was NO indication to the audience on that one.

 

Someone in their arrogance feels they can handle the drugs, the alcohol, the gambling, etc, etc, only to fully succumb to it down the road. Very real storyline here.

 

I can see some valid points on this one. I still don't buy the Emperor being more powerful than Vader though otherwise what was the point of the whole prophecy thing?

Well this will give the Nerds something to talk about in late night chat rooms.

Well what makes it not a good story is how it was presented, written directed and acted. Sorry but I have seen student films with better writing directing and acting. Had Lucas done what he did with Empire and Jedi they likely would have been passable films in my opinion.

 

Those two he did no direct and he only co-wrote them. The problem there is the arrogance of one man wanting to do it all, now that he has the money to do so and all the fame of the previous years going to his head there was nothing that was going to stop him.

 

The only other problem with it being about one man, is the fact that if it was indeed about just one person then why in the world did that one person not get more screen time than he did in 4-6? Luke, Leia and Han all got more screen time. I don't mind it being about the descent to evil and redemption of one man. In fact that intruiged me greatly when I found out he was going to do the prequels. Even if they were supporting characters they were STILL better developed than their main character was in 3 films. Anakin was a flat character, sorry. I still feel writing and directing are to blame there; had the character come across a little differently then I probably could have been okay with it.

 

Problem was that he did nothing to make me care about Anakin. He was a whiney little guy who I was ecstatic to see fall to the dark side because at LEAST we would get mediocre action.

If a little boy having to choose to leave his mother in slavery and vowing to come back to save her and failing at that does not help you care about him, I am not sure he could have done that.

 

The whole point of 1 was to create this little boy's story to make you care about him. The slavery, the little boy vowing as little boys do to do great things, and then in later stories failing at it which drives him to the dark side was the whole point of 1, 2, 3.

 

I think Luke, Leia got more screen time for marketing reasons that you are blasting him for in 1, 2, 3. He had to create a movie that would make money and could not do that with just focusing on Darth Vader.

 

In one of the DVD sets I have, and I am sure you have seen it, in his director's comments, he says that this story is about Darth Vader/Anakin. This is not the story that those who have just seen 4, 5, 6 thought it was.

 

I saw an interview at one point that said he felt if he didn't start at 4 the movies would never get made after 1. I don't think he expected 1, 2, 3 stories to have the excitement of 4, 5, 6. If he did he would have started with 1 and move through the movies in numerical order.

On the character issue, I disagree. I hate CP3PO. Hated him, hated him. He was there for a reason, at least he served some purpose though in translating; his back and forth with R2-D2 was meant as some comic relief. Which I didn't mind

And Luke came across as a spoiled brat in 4. Leia as even a bigger spoiled brat. Luke even moreso in 5. Only as they come into 6 do they become likeable. I would refer to him as a whiney farm boy, but in EP IV he does have a bit of that going. Leia certainly has an ego issue. I however find that by Empire they have grown dramatically. Leia and Luke both have been given roles with responsibility within the Rebel Alliance and their behavior from then on was a marked difference from the previous film.

 

Han, Chewy, R2D2 and Obi Wan, to me are the likeable characters in 4, 5, 6. Luke and Leia, I still don't really care about.

 

But what I think 1, 2, 3 does it setup why you should care and appreciate the ending of 6. Honestly ANH, ESB and ROTJ stood on their own for years without needing the setup of 1-3. I was given plenty of reason to care about it just by how things were presented in those films. 1-3 added stuff that made me actually happy to see the Empire because the Galactic Republic was nothing but idiots. I cannot abide fools.

 

The ending in 6 comes across as unbelievable. There is no basis for an evil, evil man to turn from evil after a short conversation with his son. Makes little sense.

 

EXCEPT he wasn't a truly evil man. Luke continually points out that there is good in him. And from 4, 5, 6 there is NO REASON for us to believe there is any good in him. Until the final scenes, why do we believe there is any good in him. NONE. If you pay close attention it seems as though the conflict with in Vader starts when he fights Luke in Empire. But moving forward to Jedi it is apparent when he speaks with the Emperor that there is a degree of affection for his son. There is something in his voice, it is very noticeable, when he mentions him to the Emperor. Luke's conversation with his father about it was merely serving to make him question his decision. What was the straw that broke the camel's back on the whole thing was watching the Emperor kill his son. The remnants of the good man within him wanted to protect his son, and he did just that.

 

But with 1, 2, 3 we see it. We understand that the ONLY reason why he turns evil in his own warped mind is to save his family. It is a father feeling he is sacrificing himself for his family.

 

Then he finds out that evil has lied to him. The same way the evil lied to the republic.

 

And now faced with his family again, he chooses his family over the lies of evil.

 

To me, great story that was finally unfolded after 1, 2, 3 and made no sense without them.

 

I loved the Padme of 1 and 2 and hated the Padme of 3. But I do understand that Padme was a supporting character in 3 and thus had to be in a different role. I felt it was a poorly written character for a great actress. In all 3.

 

I missed Han being in the movie, but know his character is not the central part of the story and was not needed in 1, 2, 3. He was not central to this part of the story no, but the second and more riveting half of the story he was essential for.

 

I thought the killing of the younglings was a great touch in the story to show how low evil will go to come to it's purposes and how low it will drag you if you choose the dark side.

I would have rather seen them show more of that to drive home the evil.

Yep but we all know that male teenagers would exaggerate their experiences pretty often.

 

Well if you pay attention in the widescreen versions of the film you can see his T-16 sitting in the back. And the fact that Biggs refers to look as the "best pilot in the outer rim territories." That sort of endorsement from a rebel fighter pilot is sufficient.

 

It was more build up than you get with Anakin.

If a little boy having to choose to leave his mother in slavery and vowing to come back to save her and failing at that does not help you care about him, I am not sure he could have done that.

 

The whole point of 1 was to create this little boy's story to make you care about him. The slavery, the little boy vowing as little boys do to do great things, and then in later stories failing at it which drives him to the dark side was the whole point of 1, 2, 3.

 

I think Luke, Leia got more screen time for marketing reasons that you are blasting him for in 1, 2, 3. He had to create a movie that would make money and could not do that with just focusing on Darth Vader. It still does not change the fact that they are more interesting characters who have more depth than Anakin did; who also had better actors writing and directing to get the point across.

 

In one of the DVD sets I have, and I am sure you have seen it, in his director's comments, he says that this story is about Darth Vader/Anakin. This is not the story that those who have just seen 4, 5, 6 thought it was. I knew that going back to when I was in 7th grade, please do not insult my knowledge of Star Wars(for the record that was 12 years ago).

 

I saw an interview at one point that said he felt if he didn't start at 4 the movies would never get made after 1. I don't think he expected 1, 2, 3 stories to have the excitement of 4, 5, 6. If he did he would have started with 1 and move through the movies in numerical order.

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree on the caring about him part. It was not the situation that made me not care, it was the presentation and the writing. Lucas could have cut out half of Episode 1 and managed to get that point across.

 

I still do not think we needed to SEE that in so much unneeded detail. A flashback to it maybe or scene where Anakin as a teenager talks about how hard it was when he is confiding in Padme maybe, but taking up half a movie with it? Please!

 

Well another reason that he started with 4-6 is because they are better stories.

I can see some valid points on this one. I still don't buy the Emperor being more powerful than Vader though otherwise what was the point of the whole prophecy thing?

I think there was indication. He had to have some doubt as the Jedi didn't trust the Emperor at all and made that clear to Anakin. Then he brings up the Sith Lord you mention. That has to be sending red flags soaring through the air. Logically, he had to consider it but didn't want to ACCEPT that the guy mentoring him was EVIL.

 

Ever know anyone that you admired and loved talking to or spending time with and you were told they did something wrong and you didn't want to accept it even when you knew it was probably true?

 

Not more powerful but much more mature and in control of his power. Sort along the lines of boy Anakin and Qui Gon. Anakin had all this power but no control and no knowledge on how to use. No difference between Anakin/teen and Emperor.

 

Anakin had more power, no doubt, we see this in Anakin killing the Emperor, but control was the issue.

 

Another thought on this line, if Darth Vader had more power why did it take so long for him to kill the Emperor. If he was truly evil as 4, 5, 6 would have led us to believe until the end of 6, would it not be logically for him to overthrow and kill the Emperor taking his place if he was truly evil?

 

And yet he does not. UNTIL the love of his family and him having to protect his family (which he could not do with his mom or his wife).

We are going to have to agree to disagree on the caring about him part. It was not the situation that made me not care, it was the presentation and the writing. Lucas could have cut out half of Episode 1 and managed to get that point across.

 

I still do not think we needed to SEE that in so much unneeded detail. A flashback to it maybe or scene where Anakin as a teenager talks about how hard it was when he is confiding in Padme maybe, but taking up half a movie with it? Please!

 

Well another reason that he started with 4-6 is because they are better stories.

I think Lucas would agree with you on the better stories or maybe word it that they are more marketable stories and the reason why he started there.

 

Curious on what parts of Episode 1 he would have had to cut out.

Certain stupid things-

A) Turbo lasers that eject spent shells. EPIII, Battle of Coruscant Never picked up on such small things

Details are everything in a film; this is why I feel that we will never convince each other on it.

B) General Grievous' organ parts not freezing, or his lungs undergoing explosive decompression when he blows the transparisteel viewscreen; OUTSIDE an atmosphere. Since they can create personal force fields and he was a mechanical being, I assumed he had something like that.

That may well have been the case, but I would have expected those same sheilds to have kept Obi-Wan from pulling the case open and then shooting it later.

C) Gungans Liked them

You liked them, but hated Ewoks? :confused:

D) Stick Figures with Guns

E) Childish sounding names How else do you expect them to sell all the merchandising/toys? These are basically child movies.

Another place where we differ. If you look at the original films, while children adored them, they weren't aimed strictly at kids. Many adults fell in love with it as well because of the compelling story and characters. The new ones are obviously marketed to kids, much more overtly than the originals.

F) Nothing looks imposing, if I saw half of what was coming at me on those battlefields I would likely be dead before they got to me, on account of laughter. An AT-AT would make me pee my pants.

G) Pod Race= Space Nascar, just more multi-racial. (I am not a fan of NASCAR by the way)Loved the pod race.

I despise racing of all kinds, even in a science fiction.

H) Darth Maul, sorry folks the only reason most people think he is cool is because he didn't get enough lines to screw up the character. He also killed the only character worth caring about in EPI. I was disappointed to see him die so soon but understand the need.

He needed to die when he did, my point is that the only reason so many people think so highly of him is because Lucas didn't write enough lines to where he could become annoying.

I) Jango Fett, yes folks the man who has Boba Fett as his favorite character speaks out against Jango Fett. Why? Because it is a moronic ORIGIN!!!!

K) Kamino, a planet full of a bunch of aliens who speak slower than someone with a head injury and necks so small you could decapitate them with a small pocket knife.

 

Again though, I pick out things that most people wouldn't even realize were there. Part of how I watch movies and read history. If I hadn't majored in history in college I probably would be less detail oriented.

Well if you pay attention in the widescreen versions of the film you can see his T-16 sitting in the back. And the fact that Biggs refers to look as the "best pilot in the outer rim territories." That sort of endorsement from a rebel fighter pilot is sufficient.

 

It was more build up than you get with Anakin.

How many times have we had someone from the 16th region claim this is the best ____________ in the state. And how many times has that been accurate? :lol:

 

I will give you that going from a pod racer and then immediately to the fighter is a jump. But I think it was put there to point out that this is an exceptional kid. Remember Obi Won (???) points out that his reading was higher than even Yoda's.

 

This was an exceptional and never before seen kid. You would expect him to be able to do things that a normal kid or even an above average kid could not do.

I think there was indication. He had to have some doubt as the Jedi didn't trust the Emperor at all and made that clear to Anakin. Then he brings up the Sith Lord you mention. That has to be sending red flags soaring through the air. Logically, he had to consider it but didn't want to ACCEPT that the guy mentoring him was EVIL. Considering Obi-Wan was like a father/brother to him, wouldn't it have made sense for him to confide in him about it IF he suspected?

 

Ever know anyone that you admired and loved talking to or spending time with and you were told they did something wrong and you didn't want to accept it even when you knew it was probably true? For the record this has never happened to me. I never set anyone on a pedestal. I love my folks, but I know they are humans and as such flawed.

 

Not more powerful but much more mature and in control of his power. Sort along the lines of boy Anakin and Qui Gon. Anakin had all this power but no control and no knowledge on how to use. No difference between Anakin/teen and Emperor.

 

Anakin had more power, no doubt, we see this in Anakin killing the Emperor, but control was the issue.

 

Another thought on this line, if Darth Vader had more power why did it take so long for him to kill the Emperor. If he was truly evil as 4, 5, 6 would have led us to believe until the end of 6, would it not be logically for him to overthrow and kill the Emperor taking his place if he was truly evil?

 

And yet he does not. UNTIL the love of his family and him having to protect his family (which he could not do with his mom or his wife).

 

To the last part... They made that perfectly believable without needing the prequels.

 

In 4-6 he never strikes me as half as evil as the Emperor. In fact he makes mention to Moff Jerjerrord at the start of 6 "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I." Considering this guy killed Captain Needa and Admial Ozzel in Empire it makes you wonder about the Emperor.

I liked the Gungans because it was realistic to think they might be able to defeat the Droid army.

 

But Teddy Bears armed with bow and arrows, stones, spears, etc defeating the Storm Troppers. Come on. Out of all the things that are unrealistic in the movie, this is #1.

How many times have we had someone from the 16th region claim this is the best ____________ in the state. And how many times has that been accurate? :lol:

 

I will give you that going from a pod racer and then immediately to the fighter is a jump. But I think it was put there to point out that this is an exceptional kid. Remember Obi Won (???) points out that his reading was higher than even Yoda's.

 

This was an exceptional and never before seen kid. You would expect him to be able to do things that a normal kid or even an above average kid could not do.

 

I don't pay attention to basketball, but I HAVE heard that before so I understand your point. Even so I would trust Biggs in his estimation as he would have no reason to brag about him if he didn't think he could help up there.

 

Just because he was exceptional does not mean that he could figure out the complexity of a fighter. I really still can't buy that. It is as close an explanation as can be given, but it still does not sit well for me.