Not to threadjack my own thread, but do any of you think that on some other teams Jodie Meeks would be more of an impact player?

 

Maybe not top 5, but top 10. It just seems to me that over the years freshman at UK have trouble playing up to their potential in their first season, while some lower rated incoming seniors have more of an impact as freshman.

 

Then again, maybe that's just me.

 

I agree...not so much that Meeks would be top 10 (that's something I don't know), but on the fact that freshmen usually don't have a big impact at UK. It seems to me that Tubby doesn't have confidence in his freshmen and he isn't as willing to accept some of their "freshmen mistakes" to reap the reward of the upside like other coaches. I think sometimes that "lack of confidence" (or whatever it is) that Tubby shows can wear on some of these players and break them down to where they lose confidence in themselves. Then you get into the situation where guys don't live up to their hype or have erratic performances. I realize that some guys just don't pan out in college, so I'm not saying that's always the case, but it does seem to be a trend under Tubby...at least from my perspective.

 

And then I look at a guy like Tayshaun Prince and what he's doing in the NBA. Why couldn't he have played like that at UK? I always felt like he had huge potential to be a nightmare in college but for some reason he was just steady. Granted he was a good player for the Cats, but he didn't show anything at UK to make me think he would ever be the player he has become in the league. So, I know I'll get trounced for this, but I'm not as keen to give Tubby credit for "developing" Prince...I can't help but wonder why he couldn't have been better in college seeing how good he is now. And don't give me a hindsight comment, because as I stated earlier, I always felt he was underachieving at UK.

 

Anyway, it seems that Tubby will not play freshmen big minutes unless he doesn't have an alternative (see Rondo and Morris as freshmen). Maybe it's just me, but that's what I think.

How many of these guys mentioned are back in the college ranks next season??

 

I say very few, if any.

 

The only two for sure are Durant and Oden...Wright is probably a pretty good bet. After that, I wouldn't be able to say, but I'm sure a few of them will try it.

OK...that answers part of the question. How 'bout the rest?

 

I assume you are saying he could have been more of an impact player at another school, but what about the fact that in recent years highly rated freshmen have struggled at UK while others have flourished elsewhere?

 

Is it the system or the level of talent by those "elsewhere"?

I think Tubby's system does take some time to grow in to, and it causes new players to refine their overall game. We'll use this Texas team as an example since they get solid to amazing production from 4 freshman. They move the ball well and take advantage of teams doing all they can to slow down Durant. Guys like James and Augustine get to play a style similar to what they are used to in high school and therefore it comes easier to them earlier. They also play a lot of zone to keep them from wearing down. Frosh at UK don't get either luxury. I can relate because I saw the same issues with the guy now out in the middle of Kansas...

I think Tubby's system does take some time to grow in to, and it causes new players to refine their overall game. We'll use this Texas team as an example since they get solid to amazing production from 4 freshman. They move the ball well and take advantage of teams doing all they can to slow down Durant. Guys like James and Augustine get to play a style similar to what they are used to in high school and therefore it comes easier to them earlier. They also play a lot of zone to keep them from wearing down. Frosh at UK don't get either luxury. I can relate because I saw the same issues with the guy now out in the middle of Kansas...

 

I hate that tactic...

I agree...not so much that Meeks would be top 10 (that's something I don't know), but on the fact that freshmen usually don't have a big impact at UK. It seems to me that Tubby doesn't have confidence in his freshmen and he isn't as willing to accept some of their "freshmen mistakes" to reap the reward of the upside like other coaches. I think sometimes that "lack of confidence" (or whatever it is) that Tubby shows can wear on some of these players and break them down to where they lose confidence in themselves. Then you get into the situation where guys don't live up to their hype or have erratic performances. I realize that some guys just don't pan out in college, so I'm not saying that's always the case, but it does seem to be a trend under Tubby...at least from my perspective.

 

And then I look at a guy like Tayshaun Prince and what he's doing in the NBA. Why couldn't he have played like that at UK? I always felt like he had huge potential to be a nightmare in college but for some reason he was just steady. Granted he was a good player for the Cats, but he didn't show anything at UK to make me think he would ever be the player he has become in the league. So, I know I'll get trounced for this, but I'm not as keen to give Tubby credit for "developing" Prince...I can't help but wonder why he couldn't have been better in college seeing how good he is now. And don't give me a hindsight comment, because as I stated earlier, I always felt he was underachieving at UK.

 

Anyway, it seems that Tubby will not play freshmen big minutes unless he doesn't have an alternative (see Rondo and Morris as freshmen). Maybe it's just me, but that's what I think.

 

More or less, that's what I was thinking.

 

Gotta give Prince his props for the UNC game at Rupp though. That was one of those moments where I'll never forget where I was at and who was there to witness it with me.

I think Tubby's system does take some time to grow in to, and it causes new players to refine their overall game. We'll use this Texas team as an example since they get solid to amazing production from 4 freshman. They move the ball well and take advantage of teams doing all they can to slow down Durant. Guys like James and Augustine get to play a style similar to what they are used to in high school and therefore it comes easier to them earlier. They also play a lot of zone to keep them from wearing down. Frosh at UK don't get either luxury. I can relate because I saw the same issues with the guy now out in the middle of Kansas...

 

 

IMO, that's what makes a coach great.

 

You either have to be able to run a system so soundly that ALL players pick it up with ease so they don't lose confidence.

 

Or, you adjust your gameplan to suit the style of your players. This is the style I prefer. While Tubby seems to be only having moderate success with the other.

More or less, that's what I was thinking.

 

Gotta give Prince his props for the UNC game at Rupp though. That was one of those moments where I'll never forget where I was at and who was there to witness it with me.

 

I agree and I should backtrack on my statement that he never showed me anything at UK to make me think he'd be that good...he showed some flashes, which are exactly why I thought he could/should have been a better player in college.

 

Is it safe to say Tubby likes to tear players down and then build them back up in his image, whereas other coaches will try to chip away the rough edges over time? It seems Tubby wants every player on the roster to be a well-rounded, balanced, versatile basketball player. And that is a noble cause, but unfortunately one that is very hard to attain. On the flipside, instead of making every player a well-rounded player, why not figure out their strengths and try to mold that into a well-rounded team while trying to correct some of their flaws and build on the strengths...instead of the typical attitude of "Well, he's a freshmen." It seems Tubby uses the term like a curse word...tell me players don't pick up on that just a little...

I agree and I should backtrack on my statement that he never showed me anything at UK to make me think he'd be that good...he showed some flashes, which are exactly why I thought he could/should have been a better player in college.

 

Is it safe to say Tubby likes to tear players down and then build them back up in his image, whereas other coaches will try to chip away the rough edges over time? It seems Tubby wants every player on the roster to be a well-rounded, balanced, versatile basketball player. And that is a noble cause, but unfortunately one that is very hard to attain. On the flipside, instead of making every player a well-rounded player, why not figure out their strengths and try to mold that into a well-rounded team while trying to correct some of their flaws and build on the strengths...instead of the typical attitude of "Well, he's a freshmen." It seems Tubby uses the term like a curse word...tell me players don't pick up on that just a little...

 

:thumb: :thumb:

 

So, are we offering constructive criticism or should we take bets on how long it takes for someone to call us Tubby-bashers?

:thumb: :thumb:

 

So, are we offering constructive criticism or should we take bets on how long it takes for someone to call us Tubby-bashers?

 

I don't care, but I agree with your point. There is no such thing as constructive criticism of Tubby. I learned long ago that I wasn't a true Kentucky fan...kinda like people who question the President aren't true Americans, right? :sssh:

 

I can't help it if the Cats are now consistently one of the most boring teams in college basketball to watch....it's frustrating...and if you want to know why they can't recruit, then look no further than that. I mean think about Patterson...UK has supposedly been on him longer than anyone and could never get a commitment...to me, that speaks volumes...now Duke may swoop in and steal him away...if that just happened occasionally, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but again, it's becoming a trend.

^ I'm with ya, and I don't see myself as an untrue UK fan, but only one that holds UK to a higher standard.

I think it goes back to Tubby being great for a place like Georgia or teams like them in the middle to top half of a major conference. Teams where you can build a core of 3 star players and add a 4 or 5 star here and there in the up years. It's just not a system designed to keep you at the top in the revolving door era of players. And I say that from experience...

I think it goes back to Tubby being great for a place like Georgia or teams like them in the middle to top half of a major conference. Teams where you can build a core of 3 star players and add a 4 or 5 star here and there in the up years. It's just not a system designed to keep you at the top in the revolving door era of players. And I say that from experience...

 

Which is what is expected at UK...

 

But, I agree with everything you said and that's my feeling on Tubby. Not a bad coach at all, just not the best fit at or for UK.