1 minute ago, Baseball Nut 24 said:

* Not saying RPI means "everything" but it can't mean nothing....

Holy Cross 20-6    RPI .629

Conner 17-6      RPI .610

N Laurel 18-10    RPI  .608

* But they have Reed Sheppard so the argument will be different I guess. I'm not saying who is better but if we are looking at how to rank teams we pick and choose what we want to look at depending on the teams.

Maybe I'm wrong and missing something. 

I don't think you are wrong.

2 minutes ago, Baseball Nut 24 said:

We will agree that these polls are 100% "subjective". Polls are more a popularity contest and the pollsters will always favor their region or area of the state. Teams downstate (Lex, Lville, etc) will always get more publicity and coverage than teams in No Ky. I think everyone knows that. 

My argument for Holy Cross is that winning 13 of 14 games and having one loss in 5 weeks (3 pt loss to a top 20 team in Evangel Christian) should be a reason to have them ranked higher that's all I was saying. You play who you have on your schedule. They have played Cov Cath, Great Crossing, Lyon County, Evangel Christian and Conner, all of whom are in the top 20 currently. They are an "A" school who scheduled a great schedule to play tougher teams down state especially over the Lex Cath Holiday tournament.

I appreciate your thought out response Dragon Fire for sure. I just disagree with your angle that only playing one "top 20" team in that span as a measuring stick to not move them higher. And their "poor" start that you mention they played those teams who at the time were - #4 Great Crossing, #3 Cov Cath, #9 Lyon Co and Conner who is in the top 20. Not like they lost to bad teams during that early stretch. Thus the "undervalued part". If they played a soft schedule the narrative would be they haven't played anyone. ?

That was much the narrative I was seeing ascribed to Frederick Douglass as they were moving up the rankings, and so far, that seems to be turning out well.  McCracken County went the other way - hot start, started losing to teams that don't pass muster.  It's definitely difficult to know.  I would surmise that if Holy Cross had played nobodies, they probably would be higher in the ranks because no one would "know better", whether that's true or not.  As you said, you play the teams you have on your schedule, and that gives you a solid chance to evaluate where they should fall. 

With Holy Cross the balance of power is that yes, they additionally haven't beaten anyone of much regard.  And frankly, the margins they lost by to the teams you mentioned was alarming.  Not a single loss by less than 15 to that group.  And that's with the addition of CAL who they also lost to by 15, and they're nowhere near anyone's radar of a ranked team.  Holy Cross's best win is probably..... Highlands? Owensboro Catholic?

Really the point of the "one top 20 team" comment was that the stretch you mentioned, while not bereft of any solid teams, is not overflowing with wins over teams that leap off the page and demand movement.  I believe the weight of that work has lifted them to where they are.  And we're really talking about just a difference of a few spots, from the 12-15 range you mentioned to 19.  And I value that Holy Cross scheduled up as a small school.  That is to be commended. 

3 minutes ago, Baseball Nut 24 said:

* Not saying RPI means "everything" but it can't mean nothing....

Holy Cross 20-6    RPI .629

Conner 17-6      RPI .610

N Laurel 18-10    RPI  .608

* But they have Reed Sheppard so the argument will be different I guess. I'm not saying who is better but if we are looking at how to rank teams we pick and choose what we want to look at depending on the teams.

Maybe I'm wrong and missing something. 

I will say that RPI means absolutely nothing to me.  It is an utterly flawed and broken measure.  For North Laurel more than most as a matter of fact.  Six games on North Laurel's schedule were against out of state teams - fairly dominant ones too.  Every single one of them results in a .500 value on their record.  Mount St. Joseph is 29-3.  .500 value.  Conner's in the same boat with six of their games coming against out of state teams.  FWIW - none of those three are even in the top 20 of RPI either. 

Massey ratings have North Laurel 16th, Conner 20th, and Holy Cross 23rd.  MaxPreps has North Laurel 16th, Conner 19th, and Holy Cross somewhere beyond 25 (I'm not signing up to find out where).  So computer rankings/metrics aside from the RPI aren't on their side either.  Like you, I would argue those aren't everything, but also, not nothing.

You are correct that the losses were by double-digits. They had trouble early in the year closing out games and playing 4 quarters. They led Cov Cath by 3 at halftime at Cov Cath and lost by 20. They were tied with Great Crossing with 5:00 to go, again on the road and lost by 15. They led Lyon County by 3 at half at the Lex Cath Tourney and lost by 16. They led CAL by 6 at halftime and lost by 15........The only really bad loss from "start to finish" was to Conner (who has beaten Cov Cath).

But I agree on paper those losses don't look close but they if you watched the games they were much closer. Ranking them 19 instead of 12-15 isn't far off. So I agree with you on that too. Good discussion.

2 minutes ago, Baseball Nut 24 said:

You are correct that the losses were by double-digits. They had trouble early in the year closing out games and playing 4 quarters. They led Cov Cath by 3 at halftime at Cov Cath and lost by 20. They were tied with Great Crossing with 5:00 to go, again on the road and lost by 15. They led Lyon County by 3 at half at the Lex Cath Tourney and lost by 16. They led CAL by 6 at halftime and lost by 15........The only really bad loss from "start to finish" was to Conner (who has beaten Cov Cath).

But I agree on paper those losses don't look close but they if you watched the games they were much closer. Ranking them 19 instead of 12-15 isn't far off. So I agree with you on that too. Good discussion.

I really enjoy it! Honestly, this is the only reason rankings exist anywhere.  They have no true worth other than as a reward for teams, but the discussion they can generate is really fun to participate in.

 

Bowling green at 9 seems high to me. Ballard, Collins, Evangel, maybe even Trinity all have better wins and have had overall better seasons IMO. 

8 minutes ago, Hoopstars said:

Bowling green at 9 seems high to me. Ballard, Collins, Evangel, maybe even Trinity all have better wins and have had overall better seasons IMO. 

Well Evangel just dominated Bowling Green in the second half en route to overcoming a halftime deficit, so a strong chance they’re heading for a tumble in final ranks. They get a chance to arrest that with a game at Trinity on Friday.