I'm OK with leaving basketball alone. It's the cash cow, and it would alter the tradition the KHSAA preaches about despite the fact they have changed the format of the state tournaments in football, basketball, and baseball in the past decade.

This makes zero sense in your argument. Why make an exception for basketball? Tradition? Please. There should be no exceptions. Every sport should be treated differently to do what is best for the kids. If the current format is what's best for basketball, then so be it.

 

But it's just plain wrong that a small school has to have their best team in school history, hope that larger schools have a down year, and pray you get a halfway decent draw just to MAKE the state tournament, let alone have a shot at winning it.

This same argument can be made for big schools in the toughest regions who more than likely never have a shot of even getting out of their district/region. All about perspective.

This makes zero sense in your argument. Why make an exception for basketball? Tradition? Please. There should be no exceptions. Every sport should be treated differently to do what is best for the kids. If the current format is what's best for basketball, then so be it.

 

 

This same argument can be made for big schools in the toughest regions who more than likely never have a shot of even getting out of their district/region. All about perspective.

 

Perspective? You betcha. I'm from a rural area far away from the Golden Triangle. I've watched sports teams that were probably among the best of their size in the entire state consistently ousted from the region tournament by schools like Henderson County, McCracken County, Christian County and Daviess County who have over 1,000 more kids in their schools. It happened to Lyon County in basketball in the early 1990s. It happened to Caldwell County in girls soccer in the late 1990s. It happens to Murray in girls soccer every year because they have to go through McCracken, Graves, and Marshall County -- sometimes all three in one tournament.

 

Someone mentioned Collegiate as a small school example. Fifth ranked school in the state but lost in the first round of the region tournament to Ballard. Only a 1,700 kid difference in enrollment. Second round game would have been against Manual, a difference of 1,600 kids. Then a region title game against St. X, only an 1,100 student difference.

 

Yes, Collegiate won the region in 2016. They lost to Trinity in the first round of the 2015 region tourney. Before that, their season ended at the hands of St. X, Trinity, Trinity, St. X, and Central Hardin each of the five years before that.

 

I only make the exception in basketball because it's a concession. I realize the KHSAA will NEVER class basketball until someone from outside the Golden Triangle is made commissioner. Soccer and volleyball are the two sports that immediately cry out to be classed based on a past history of non-small schools being able to sustain long postseason runs on a consistent basis.

 

And it's not just a small school issue. There are about 25-30 "tweener" schools that are too big to play in the "All-A Classic" yet are 600-800 students under the 4-5 larger schools in their region.

 

Three classes in soccer, volleyball, baseball, softball, track, and cross country are plenty. Do away with districts in soccer, volleyball, baseball, and softball. Create eight Super Regions in each of the three classes with the region winners to advance to the state tournament. It eliminates two opening rounds of blowout losses at the district and region tournament. It eliminates three-team districts. You can even require every team to play the other once and seed the region tourney based on the regular season results.

 

I agree with Josh Moore of the Lexington Herald-Leader, who is from outside the Golden Triangle I might add. Why does basketball determine the post-season format for every sport in the state sans two?

I agree with Josh Moore as well. The postseason should be overhauled across the board. Figure out what is best for each individual sport and do it.

 

I guess I just see things differently than you. To me your Collegiate example has nothing to do with school size and everything to do with Collegiate being in one of the two toughest regions in the state. You could replace them with 95% of the large schools in the state and still come away with the same results, and in most cases probably worse results. Put Collegiate in an easier region and they would win it 9/10 years, and probably pretty comfortably, against many large schools. But we think they should only compete against schools of its size? That doesn't make sense to me. On the flip side there are a ton of large schools that rarely get out of its district. Applying the same logic means we need to do something different for these schools as well.

 

I just don't see the depth in the state to split into 3 classes, and definitely not just by enrollment numbers. If you did so, I think you would have schools like Collegiate and St. Henry on the boys side who would dominate year after year, usually with blowouts, until they play each other in the finals. Then the narrative would be "nobody else has a chance to win a state title playing against SCHOOL X". I'm not as familiar on the girls side but I am guessing there are female equivalents.

 

I could be talked into 2 classes in soccer, but only if enrollment is just one factor and not the only factor. Soccer is unique and student numbers don't overwhelmingly determine competitiveness.

Relegation would even classes out and create the most competitive environment. If a school is dominating a lower class then it moves up regardless of size. If a school struggles in a higher class then it moves down without regard to size.

Relegation would even classes out and create the most competitive environment. If a school is dominating a lower class then it moves up regardless of size. If a school struggles in a higher class then it moves down without regard to size.

 

How about relegation in every sport?

 

I just don't see the depth in the state to split into 3 classes, and definitely not just by enrollment numbers. If you did so, I think you would have schools like Collegiate and St. Henry on the boys side who would dominate year after year, usually with blowouts, until they play each other in the finals. Then the narrative would be "nobody else has a chance to win a state title playing against SCHOOL X". I'm not as familiar on the girls side but I am guessing there are female equivalents.

 

I could be talked into 2 classes in soccer, but only if enrollment is just one factor and not the only factor. Soccer is unique and student numbers don't overwhelmingly determine competitiveness.

 

I think there are precedents for a KHSAA two class system within a sport. It may have had something more to do with Louisville having a separate "State Meet / Tournament," but it could be modified for current use. Swimming in the '60s and '70s and Cross Country in the 60's were for a while split into AAA and AA-A classes. Granted there were fewer schools participating in those sports during that time. I haven't given the application to Soccer a lot of thought, but I thought I'd throw that out there,

Relegation would even classes out and create the most competitive environment. If a school is dominating a lower class then it moves up regardless of size. If a school struggles in a higher class then it moves down without regard to size.

Absolutely. Not a bad idea. We can't even get relegation in MLS though! :lol2:

Absolutely. Not a bad idea. We can't even get relegation in MLS though! :lol2:

No kidding. Would love to see the looks on some of the owners faces when you tell them their team isn’t top tier pro anymore because they suck.