NDA wins the semis against Assumption in 3 at the McAuley Asics Challenge in Chicago

 

Waiting to face Sacred Heart in the Championship

 

KY is dominating the national tournaments

But then get swept by Sacred Heart for the Championship. Good run though

NDA ran out of gas based on a facebook post I saw.

Ran out of gas? Maybe, but it looked to me as if they were just simply overmatched. SHA has more firepower from hitters and forced NDA to pass much tougher serves which had a direct influence on how they ran their offense. SHAs hitters were overpowering with Hammons and Gentile came up big and had a big day. If SHA can develop a presence from a middle and control the ball, it will be a tough road for anyone to beat them.

 

NDA looked like their usual self, scrappy, but just didn't have enough offense to go with it. Talkers looked like she jammed a wrist late in the first set diving for a ball but played through it and it didnt appear to alter any sets. NDA didn't appear to get Salkowski the ball as much as usual (could be due to passing) and Hentz didn't take over the game. She got a few hard hits in but her normal shots (rolls, tips, etc, weren't falling as SHA seemed to have a good gameplan vs her). This one will be an interesting one if it happens again in the state semis. Also,most noticably, there was no Coach Buck on the sidelines. Hope he is feeling better.

What tournament was this?

Ran out of gas? Maybe, but it looked to me as if they were just simply overmatched. SHA has more firepower from hitters and forced NDA to pass much tougher serves which had a direct influence on how they ran their offense. SHAs hitters were overpowering with Hammons and Gentile came up big and had a big day. If SHA can develop a presence from a middle and control the ball, it will be a tough road for anyone to beat them.

 

NDA looked like their usual self, scrappy, but just didn't have enough offense to go with it. Talkers looked like she jammed a wrist late in the first set diving for a ball but played through it and it didnt appear to alter any sets. NDA didn't appear to get Salkowski the ball as much as usual (could be due to passing) and Hentz didn't take over the game. She got a few hard hits in but her normal shots (rolls, tips, etc, weren't falling as SHA seemed to have a good gameplan vs her). This one will be an interesting one if it happens again in the state semis. Also,most noticably, there was no Coach Buck on the sidelines. Hope he is feeling better.

 

Well that's a better summary than the few lines I saw on fb. Ha ha.

 

The few times I have seen NDA play, they seem to get nothing from the L2 and Opposite, and I am not just talking offensively. Neither one gets blocks, good touches or digs along with few kills. Neither make a lot of errors but they need to do more.

 

Just don't understand why they have that whole bench sitting there and not one kid to come in a provide something? NDA is now 2-4 (I think vs the Louisville powers-Mercy 2L, Assumption 1W/1L, SHA 1W/1L). Just seems like they would switch something up in at least one game to see what someone else can do. Hope the Pandas don't come away with regrets again. All of NKY knows (if they are honest) this is our last chance for at least a few years. Personally, regardless of my school affiliation, I would like to see them (or anyone) bring it home!

Hmmmm, I don't know about overmatched. the score was 17-17 in the 1st and 18-18 in the second. I think SHA just executed better down the stretch. I think NDA might have been a little too happy to get by Assumption for once. Regardless SHA was better and deserved the win.

 

NDA's opposite actually had the best hitting % for NDA in that final match (maxpreps stats) and looks to have had a pretty good tourney so I don't think a change is necessary.

 

Looking forward to the semis assuming each team can get there.

Interesting results from the Chicago Tourney. Notre Dame gets over the Assumption hump and then Sacred Heart gets over the NDA hump. The top 4 teams are all very evenly matched and nationally ranked. Don't take anything away from NDA.

 

I thought the NDA serving game let them down, they tied the match 3 different times late in Game 2 and missed the following serve in the net each time.

 

The prior two matches against Mother McAuley and Assumption they dropped game 1 before winning games 2 and 3. The margin at that high of a level is very small and NDA's unforced errors ultimately let them down.

To NDA coaches. Play Stephenson as a hitter!! Strong swing when it's needed

To NDA coaches. Play Stephenson as a hitter!! Strong swing when it's needed

 

I'll take it under consideration

NDA's opposite actually had the best hitting % for NDA in that final match (maxpreps stats) and looks to have had a pretty good tourney so I don't think a change is necessary.

 

Since you quoted Max Preps...

 

In the 6 matches that NDA has played against Mercy, SHA and Assumption

Knaley (opposite) is hitting .134

Draud L2 is hitting .131

 

At the tournament this weekend:

Knaley .190

Draud .158 (hit -.111 (1K 2E on 9Att) in the final vs SHA. Finals of a national tournament and she hits negative and no change is made?)

 

(And before anyone questions why I mention the stats for just those two players is because NDA runs a 5/1 so Talkers sets from the front row so there is not another hitter. The L1 is Hentz, she is hitting .329 for the same six matches so I did not bother with her stats for the weekend. In addition to everything else she does, Hentz carries the load for this team offensively, so her position is not really in question, obviously. I also did not mention the middles because they play different positions than an OH and my opinion is that there is no one on the bench to help in the middle)

 

I can agree that Knaley did well in spurts at the tournament (statistically speaking because I was not at the tournament). However, over the long haul of the important matches vs the teams that NDA has to be able to beat she and Draud hit well below .200. Statistically anything under .225 to .250 for any OH/Opp is considered underwhelming. Couple that with the fact that neither one are primary passers and neither one get many blocks, I can certainly see why there would be questions as to why no other players ever get a shot to see what they can do.

 

Stats don't lie...must be a reason the coaches keep these players in when they obviously are not performing in the big matches.

Pick a college match that is highly contested and let me know what that teams OHs hit for the match.

 

Let's use Nebraska v Penn St this weekend. Different level but highest competitive situation (college vs high school). Might think it is a stretch but it illustrates how difficult it is to hit at a high percentage from the OH against evenly matched to slightly better talent.

 

Foecke .193 (22 kills)

Rolfsen .171 (11 kills)

Frantii .097 (7 kills)

Courtney .113 (16 kills)

 

Russ Rose and John Cook seem to have a good handle on what they are doing and they have much more talented depth.

Pick a college match that is highly contested and let me know what that teams OHs hit for the match.

 

Let's use Nebraska v Penn St this weekend. Different level but highest competitive situation (college vs high school). Might think it is a stretch but it illustrates how difficult it is to hit at a high percentage from the OH against evenly matched to slightly better talent.

 

Foecke .193 (22 kills)

Rolfsen .171 (11 kills)

Frantii .097 (7 kills)

Courtney .113 (16 kills)

 

Russ Rose and John Cook seem to have a good handle on what they are doing and they have much more talented depth.

 

Very good points, vblover and I love a good debate.

 

I think it is silly to use a match that involved two top 5 college teams in the country to compare to ANY high school team. But someone did it on a thread earlier when they compared Micha Hancock to NKY high school setters so maybe it is becoming a trend. A better argument, in this case, would be to compare the players in the same positions on NDA's opponents and see, statistically, where they match up. The difficulty for me in this is that I was not at these matches so I am making a researched and educated guess on which players were the OH/Opp for the teams NDA competed against. (I think I have listed them accurately but I am not 100% so just want that out there before someone jumps down my throat...this is BGP after all.)

 

Before I move forward with my stat comparison, I did want to note that, while my knowledge of Nebraska volleyball consists of the fact that John Cook's daughter played for for him and got a DUI (thank you TMZ), that is all I know about them. I am however a B1G fan of Penn State. Your comment above about Russ Rose having depth in the OH position is misleading once you look into the matter more deeply. And, after giving more thought on the PSU vs NE match, I can make an argument that your bringing attention to that match actually supports my call for an NDA change in the front row, but more on that later.

 

PSU's current roster breakdown is the following: Setter (2), OH (5*), MH (3**), Opp (1), L/DS (7***)

 

*OH hitter count includes Whitney who actually played MH vs Nebraska so for Nebraska match PSU actually had only 4 OH (Frantti, Courtney, Reed, Lee)

 

**MH count does not include Whitney. She played MH so this count vs Nebraska, should be 4 (Washington, Thelen, Gorrell, Whitney)

 

***At most high level D1 schools, a Libero may get money. I would assume at PSU the libero is on scholarship but maybe not since the player who is now playing the position was not at the start of the season (line up change by Russ Rose when the current player wasn't performing) Most of these DS would be walk ons.

So 11 scholarships spread over the hitting/setting corp and 1 for the L/DS.

 

In the Nebraska match, PSU made a pretty major line up change from what they had been playing the entire UNDEFEATED season. Thelen (MH), who had been starting, got benched and Whitney who had been playing opposite, played Middle. Note the bolded, PSU had been undefeated up to the Nebraska match. The wins include:

 

Stanford (ranked 2) 3-0 win

Colorado (ranked 21) 3-0 win

Wisconsin (ranked 16) 3-0 win

Minnesota (ranked 21)3-2 win (these two sets were the first sets PSU had lost all season).

 

So an undefeated team, ranked first in the country, who had lost ONLY 2 SETS the entire season made a significant lineup change to see if they could be even better. Thelen is not injured (by all accounts) but anyone can look at her stats and see why she is not in the lineup anymore. Will Rose change it back since they lost is anyone's guess. He didn't the next night against Iowa and they won. It will be an interesting season but one reason I love Penn State is that he rewards hard work and holds players accountable for underperformance and he makes changes when necessary.

 

So...with the Whitney switch to MH, that brought in Lee who got some time at Opposite. So for this match, Rose didn't have 'depth'....Lee is his first sub as she is the only OH on the bench that has any experience. Reed (Soph OH) has played very little in the two years she has been there and all the word on Novakovic (Frosh Opp) is that she is nowhere near ready. I would assume the same is true for Gorrell (Frosh MH) since, instead of using her, a trained MH, Rose took a major point scorer (Whitney) and moved her to Middle for Thelen. In reality for the Nebraska match Rose had one OH at his disposal (Reed), not the plethora that your post implies when you say "....and they have much more talented depth."

 

I would argue with regard to Courtney's stats the same way I would argue for Hentz. She is the best ball control, defender, blocker on the roster. She is also a senior and a leader. I am sure Courtney was not happy with her hitting percentage (especially in a loss) but she is given a lot of leeway on the offensive end, just like Hentz, because of everything else they do to help the team. Frantti is not the stud that Courtney is but, I think, is probably entitled to a bad night...she did not play her best. However, even in this scenario, Rose had one sub (Reed) to put in for either of them.

 

To reiterate, vblover, your post about PSU supports my decision that when things are not working or players are underperforming, coaches make changes. Russ Rose, arguably the best volleyball coach in the nation, did just that. MH2 (Thelen) gets benched and a whole lineup shift had to happen that includes one player 'out of position' (Whitney) and a bench player (Lee) getting some time that one can only assume she has earned. Russ Rose wants to win a NC and NDA wants to win state. The difference is that Russ Rose will do what he has to and give players a chance in order to reach the ultimate goal. Take a loss early in order to see what those players can do in those types of matches and prepare them for an end of season run. I just don't think that is going on at NDA.

 

Now on to the stat comparison that I spoke of in the opening...Unfortunately, a lot of the teams NDA plays don't enter stats into MaxPreps so I am only comparing those teams that do.

 

vs. McAuley (Chicago) NDA WIN 2-1

McAuley O'Brien (.250), O'Connell (.278) Niego (.083)

NDA Knaley (.294), Draud (.368), Hentz (.357)

RESULT: Knaley and Draud win

 

vs Sacred Heart (played in Louisville) NDA WIN 3-2

Hammons (.242), Westenhoffer (.114), Bennett (.310), Gentile (.250) *not sure who the OH is between Bennett and Gentile

NDA Knaley (.121), Draud (.214), Hentz (.333)

RESULT: SHA OH's win

 

vs Assumption (LIVT) NDA LOSS 1-2

Palmer (.250), Askin (.150), Moore (.250)

NDA Knaley (.071), Draud (.312), Hentz (.517)

RESULT: Draud wins, Knaley loses

 

Those are all the stats that the opponents have entered in the 'important' head to head matches. If you look just at these, two things stand out for me...

 

First, Draud did well statistically in these matches. Her average in these three matches was a very respectable .290. That tells me that for her average (that includes all of Chicago tourney and all 6 matches agains the Louisville teams) to be .158 and .131 (respectively) she must have really struggled in some of the other matches.

 

Second, Knaley stats speak for themselves...she is not getting it done. In these three matches her average was .160. Her average in Chicago Tourney was .190 and vs 6 Louisville matches .134. Based on averages, she is consistently not getting it done.

 

These two NDA players, as I stated above, do nothing for the team but hit, I am only speaking in terms of stats. They don't block (minimal), dig, pass or serve. Their only responsibility is to hit...unlike Frantti and Courtney in the PSU example used above, who do all of that (except Frantti usually doesn't serve but is a primary passer in every serve receive). Again, using your example, vblover as to why Rose maybe didn't make a change in the NE match for Courtney or Frantti...

1. he had only Reed on the bench and

2. both Courtney and Frantti do a heck of a lot more than hit. Subs for them would involve different serve receive patterns, another DS coming in back row. It is much more complicated than what is going on with two players at NDA whose sole responsibility is to hit. It is an easy sub to bring in another player to solely have to hit and nothing else changes.

 

Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I am an avid, lifelong fan of NDA volleyball and simply want them to win a State Championship. I assume most people on this board are parents of current players and I don't mean to step on any toes, it is why I am trying to take a black and white look and not just my subjective opinion, especially when I don't go to every match.

 

My points are simple...NDA has run the same lineup for the past two seasons. The only change this year is reloading the two spots Thelen and VonHandorf left open from graduation (neither of which are involved in this particular discussion). The only competition I have seen is for the Libero spot. The outside hitters seem to be given a pass and I think (and many agree) there are players on the bench who can help. If nothing else, put a fire under the butt of the player they replace if only temporarily.

 

I was disappointed when I saw the stats and didn't see any other players get any playing time in Chicago. NDA has two matches left that will challenge them (Ursaline and Assumption) and it is almost too late to get any players experience and time to build confidence. I think for PandaNation it is clear that the coach has made his decision, regardless of stats and wkrp calling him out of BGP (that was funny, by the way!).

 

Again, my tone should be one of fact, I am not angry or defensive. One bad thing about these boards is that you can't hear tone. If we were discussing over coffee, that is what this would sound like on my end, a discussion over a cup of joe.

 

As always, good luck to the Pandas tonight vs Conner.

Edited October 6, 201510 yr by wxyz

Very, very good post. I don't have a dog in the fight either and have only seen NDA a grand total of 3-4 matches this year. Your knowledge of their roster is much deeper than mine. Again, continuing a friendly debate and not being hostile.

 

Does JV keep stats? What do the athletes that could potentially offer an alternative hit in JV matches against top competition? Take a sample size of their stats in 3 game matches against Assumption, Mercy, MND and SUA. You can probably reduce that hitting percentage at least .100 points against varsity blocks and defenses.

 

My only argument to the post was the fact OHs, especially the 2nd OH, is typically not north of .200 in highly competitive situations. They usually get a slew of out of system sets against a loaded up block. I totally agree that an OPP should be putting up better numbers given their opportunities are usually in system.

 

If there is a competitive practice environment, the decisions should be crystal clear before matches are ever played.

 

Speaking for Saturday only, I would have probably stuck with the line-up that pulled off consecutive come from behind victories against McAuley and Assumption.

Very, very good post. I don't have a dog in the fight either and have only seen NDA a grand total of 3-4 matches this year. Your knowledge of their roster is much deeper than mine. Again, continuing a friendly debate and not being hostile.

 

Does JV keep stats? What do the athletes that could potentially offer an alternative hit in JV matches against top competition? Take a sample size of their stats in 3 game matches against Assumption, Mercy, MND and SUA. You can probably reduce that hitting percentage at least .100 points against varsity blocks and defenses.

 

My only argument to the post was the fact OHs, especially the 2nd OH, is typically not north of .200 in highly competitive situations. They usually get a slew of out of system sets against a loaded up block. I totally agree that an OPP should be putting up better numbers given their opportunities are usually in system.

 

If there is a competitive practice environment, the decisions should be crystal clear before matches are ever played.

 

Speaking for Saturday only, I would have probably stuck with the line-up that pulled off consecutive come from behind victories against McAuley and Assumption.

 

vblover, you are going to get me fired....

 

Re JV...I have no idea if they keep stats. I have seen them play in the bigger matches and they have a player or two that shine on a consistent basis, but since there are a lot of Freshman on the roster, I am not as familiar...yet. In the 4 big matches I saw (MND, Mercy, Ursula, Lak East) they were very, very good. But don't know stats. Stephenson definitely stands out as a leader, both emotionally and physically. I would give her the same leeway on the JV team that Hentz/Courtney get in my argument above. She truly does it all. I am impressed with B. Morgan, I would think her and Stephenson will run a 6/2 next year on Varsity since both set and hit. Morgan is a better hitter than setter right now. Gormally is undersized middle but really athletic and fun to watch, haven't seen her hops in the middle since Wulfeck graduated (who I see on the JV bench helping coach by the way), Sears is the other JV hitter who sometimes gets varsity time...nice player as well.

 

(Side note, I so look forward to the intense debate that is bound to rage on BGP when NDA graduates this senior class and has only 3 starters returning. Who will win the 9th, etc. For those who haven't seen them, I think many would be shocked at how good the JV team is. They would beat many local varsity teams. And add in Hardig who is a sophomore playing only varsity and, I would argue NDA JV would beat MOST varsity teams in the area. I heard Kordes say one time that the great players at Assumption 'sometimes have to wait their turns' and the same is true at NDA. They will be ready next season to carry on the tradition, just as this crop of seniors had to wait their turn (besides Hentz) there is a whole JV team waiting in the wings.)

 

As for taking the JV stats and reducing the percentages by .100 I think that is a bad way to win that argument. A varsity team for an OH is going to have a better middle game (to create seams in the block), better passing, better setting and better communication (to call shots). It is hard to compare all of these things by simply reducing the hitting percentage...you are taking into account the better team on the other side but not giving credit for the benefits of playing with varsity players on your own side. Besides playing the matches, I am not sure how you statistically compare two players.

 

With regard to L2 getting junk balls, yes this may be true to an extent but I think that is just an excuse. A trained L2 should be able to get kills off of out of system balls. Again, if they are not, just TRY someone else....maybe that person can??

 

Competitive practice environment...I have no clue...none. I generally lean towards the benefit of the doubt and support of the coaches (I am generally anti parent... sorry BGPer's) but this to me seems so obvious and with the record against Louisville being 2-4 along with statistical evidence, to me a change is necessary.

 

As for the coach's decision on Saturday, I know they are not black and white and with Buck not being there on the weekend, maybe the asst was afraid to make any changes or lacked the experience, I have no idea. I also know chemistry plays a role in these decisions so maybe that is it. My posts are statistically driven because I believe above all else, if you are truly trying to win, you put the girls out there who are going to score. Statistically speaking that is not happening.

 

Fun debate, got my juices flowing, I may need to head out to Conner tonight to see the Pandas play!

Edited October 6, 201510 yr by wxyz
clarification