To be clear about the above: I'm thinking that Bledsoe is one of the few guys who you could argue made as much incremental progress once in the pros when you hold him up against Davis.

 

If I ever pick against the 2012 team, then the very last reason I'd do so is Davis. My picking against them is more of an indictment of how I feel about Teague, Lamb, and Miller, and the test of time has shown that those guys weren't really able to stick as long as some of the others.

 

I won't make bones about saying that I'll favor talent against most other things, whether it's high school, college, pros, any level. Hard workers only beat talent when talent doesn't work hard.

I'm not saying he didn't blossom while at UK, but he's continued to get better while in the pros. He's added weight and offensive repertoire. Those are the same things people were saying about him in the Davis/Durant debate.

 

A better way to put what I was saying would probably be to say which UK player under Cal has shown more improvement than him once he got into the pros? I was just using it to counter arguments that I was thinking of Wall and Cousins as pros instead of as they were in their time in college.

 

But here's the thing. He was better than Wall or Cousins at UK.

 

That's just part of the difference between a guy that is once in a generation and guys that will be All Star level guys. Guys like Davis are better in the early, middle and late stages of their careers as long as injury doesn't ruin it.

 

Bottom line to the debate. Wall and Cousins were very good at UK. Davis was the best player in the country hands down. It shouldn't be any surprise that he has continued to develop at a faster rate...

But here's the thing. He was better than Wall or Cousins at UK.

 

That's just part of the difference between a guy that is once in a generation and guys that will be All Star level guys. Guys like Davis are better in the early, middle and late stages of their careers as long as injury doesn't ruin it.

 

Bottom line to the debate. Wall and Cousins were very good at UK. Davis was the best player in the country hands down. It shouldn't be any surprise that he has continued to develop at a faster rate...

 

 

And my point has never been that Davis isn't better than Wall or Cousins. I'm the guy who said 1. Durant, 2. Davis... the thing about Davis, but the next best pro from '12 is probably Terrence Jones, who plays on a really good team but has been up and down (injuries have set him back in a great year this year). Past that, it's MKG, who was a good college player and a guy I loved watching play; only Cat whose signed autograph I've got... love his effort and intensity, all that. It's nothing I have against MKG when I say that.

 

'15 we don't really know who the best players in the pros will be, but even if they don't have a 2. as good as Jones and a 3. like MKG, they'll have a 4-5-6 at least as good as the rest. Davis is the guy I'd take out of all of them, but if we're drafting, the next guy coming off the board that was a factor in '12 is gonna be awhile.

 

For everything Davis did, he didn't average gaudy scoring numbers, and at the end of the day, the winner of the game is the team with the most points on the board. I don't see '12 trying to run with '15 because of the depth. Given that, they'd probably want to make it a half-court game. How do you see '12 hurting '15 in that type of game (or do you think it'd go down otherwise)?

 

I'm probably underrating Teague and Lamb some, but someone on that team has to score in the half-court at some point. When you get to the end of the benches (as deep as they'll ever go), on '12 there's 6. Miller/Dodson, 7. Wiltjer, 8. Vargas, 9. Beckham?, 10. Polson?

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think '12 could struggle for either of those reasons.

 

It's all fun tho, I'm nerdy and like doing this stuff, so it's cool. I really learn stuff by talking to other people about it and respect your opinion, otherwise I wouldn't have typed this whole thing out.

And my point has never been that Davis isn't better than Wall or Cousins. I'm the guy who said 1. Durant, 2. Davis... the thing about Davis, but the next best pro from '12 is probably Terrence Jones, who plays on a really good team but has been up and down (injuries have set him back in a great year this year). Past that, it's MKG, who was a good college player and a guy I loved watching play; only Cat whose signed autograph I've got... love his effort and intensity, all that. It's nothing I have against MKG when I say that.

 

'15 we don't really know who the best players in the pros will be, but even if they don't have a 2. as good as Jones and a 3. like MKG, they'll have a 4-5-6 at least as good as the rest. Davis is the guy I'd take out of all of them, but if we're drafting, the next guy coming off the board that was a factor in '12 is gonna be awhile.

 

For everything Davis did, he didn't average gaudy scoring numbers, and at the end of the day, the winner of the game is the team with the most points on the board. I don't see '12 trying to run with '15 because of the depth. Given that, they'd probably want to make it a half-court game. How do you see '12 hurting '15 in that type of game (or do you think it'd go down otherwise)?

 

I'm probably underrating Teague and Lamb some, but someone on that team has to score in the half-court at some point. When you get to the end of the benches (as deep as they'll ever go), on '12 there's 6. Miller/Dodson, 7. Wiltjer, 8. Vargas, 9. Beckham?, 10. Polson?

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think '12 could struggle for either of those reasons.

 

It's all fun tho, I'm nerdy and like doing this stuff, so it's cool. I really learn stuff by talking to other people about it and respect your opinion, otherwise I wouldn't have typed this whole thing out.

 

You are under rating MKG quite a bit. He's an elite defender anchoring one of the league's best defenses. His offense is still a work in progress, but he's averaging a career high 10.9 ppg. These few articles help explain his impact on defense Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is your Defensive Player Of the Year - At The Hive

 

NBA | Anatomy of a Defence: MKG's Swarming Charlotte Hornets | SPORTAL

You are under rating MKG quite a bit. He's an elite defender anchoring one of the league's best defenses. His offense is still a work in progress, but he's averaging a career high 10.9 ppg. These few articles help explain his impact on defense Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is your Defensive Player Of the Year - At The Hive

 

NBA | Anatomy of a Defence: MKG's Swarming Charlotte Hornets | SPORTAL

 

In terms of heart, you cannot measure what he brings, and I'll always respect him for it and think he's going to be fine regardless. Dude was my favorite UK player on that team, and I always thought it was intense when he popped his own shoulder back in going down early in the Kansas Natty in '12. Dude was a quick player end-to-end on the break and he'd always be getting defensive boards and streaking down, his role in the NBA is more of a defender though (and he's a great one at that, but not really a guy you wanna count on to score it... which probably doesn't matter because of everything else he brings). Easily one of the dudes that I'd most like to see succeed in the pros and it's not even close; if nothing else, it's nice that a guy as intense as him is playing with Jordan's franchise (which made the playoffs last year).

I'm not saying he didn't blossom while at UK, but he's continued to get better while in the pros. He's added weight and offensive repertoire. Those are the same things people were saying about him in the Davis/Durant debate.

 

A better way to put what I was saying would probably be to say which UK player under Cal has shown more improvement than him once he got into the pros? I was just using it to counter arguments that I was thinking of Wall and Cousins as pros instead of as they were in their time in college.

 

I think you are overlooking Davis' offensive repertoire while he was in college. Davis could score from anywhere on the floor and that wasn't anything he learned in the pro's. that is something he had his entire life. You need to remember that he played his whole life as a guard until he grew 6+ inches in the summer before his senior year in high school. What he learned in college wasn't his offensive game, but more of his defensive game.

 

Many people who think he really picked up his offense in the NBA seem to forget that he wasn't asked to shoot a lot in college. Just like Michael Jordan with UNC who wasn't asked to shoot a lot because of his surrounding cast it was the same with Davis, he didn't need to shoot a lot because of his surrounding cast with UK.