February 12, 201313 yr Obama's drone program is a mere reflection of the policies implemented by the Bush Admin. First U.S. citizen killed by drone strike: November 5, 2002, an American citizen named Kamal Derwish was killed by a CIA drone strike inside Yemen. Kamal Derwish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I say, use whatever works regardless if it comes from the left or right.
February 12, 201313 yr Obama's drone program is a mere reflection of the policies implemented by the Bush Admin. First U.S. citizen killed by drone strike: November 5, 2002, an American citizen named Kamal Derwish was killed by a CIA drone strike inside Yemen. Kamal Derwish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You are trying to compare the killing of a U.S. citizen on foreign soil to a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil without due process? You know there is no comparison. If anything like this would have even come out of Bush's mouth, there would have been immediate media turmoil, let alone acting on the idea.
February 12, 201313 yr You are trying to compare the killing of a U.S. citizen on foreign soil to a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil without due process? You know there is no comparison. If anything like this would have even come out of Bush's mouth, there would have been immediate media turmoil, let alone acting on the idea. Was a U.S citizen killed on U.S soil? Or, are you using a hypothetical situation?
February 12, 201313 yr Obama's drone program is a mere reflection of the policies implemented by the Bush Admin. First U.S. citizen killed by drone strike: November 5, 2002, an American citizen named Kamal Derwish was killed by a CIA drone strike inside Yemen. Kamal Derwish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Inside The Sleeper Cell - Kamal Derwish | Chasing The Sleeper Cell | FRONTLINE | PBS "Derwish was born in Buffalo, N.Y. in 1973. His family left their Lackawanna home to return to Yemen when he was five years old. After his father was killed in a car accident, Derwish went to live with relatives in Saudi Arabia where he was raised and educated. U.S. intelligence sources say the Saudi government deported Derwish in 1997 for alleged extremist activities. He spent a year in Yemen before heading to back to his hometown of Lackawanna in 1998." Emphasis added. So it seems his parents were not American citizens. If that were the case then he was, at best, a '14th Amendment' baby. When his parents moved back to Yemen it gets sticky. They were never US citizens. Yemen does not allow dual citizenship. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_YEMEN.html From above link: "BY DESCENT: Child born of an Yemeni father regardless of the child's country of birth. ... DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. " After the age of 18 if he held a Yemen or Saudi passport AND entered the US on that passport he would, in effect, be declaring he was not a US citizen. When entering the US you are required to present a US passport as a recognized US citizen, even if you hold multiple citizenship or passports. When in the US you must declare yourself a US citizen. I know of someone who holds 4. Here is an interesting link that further explores this. Ron Paul gets it wrong on Anwar al-Awlaki's death | BullDog Pundit
February 12, 201313 yr Was a U.S citizen killed on U.S soil? Or, are you using a hypothetical situation? That is the stated direction of the new policy.
February 12, 201313 yr You are trying to compare the killing of a U.S. citizen on foreign soil to a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil without due process? You know there is no comparison. If anything like this would have even come out of Bush's mouth, there would have been immediate media turmoil, let alone acting on the idea. I'm against killing US citizens on foreign or domestic soil. I'm just pointing out the similarities between the past two Presidents. Their foreign policies parallel each other.
February 12, 201313 yr Inside The Sleeper Cell - Kamal Derwish | Chasing The Sleeper Cell | FRONTLINE | PBS "Derwish was born in Buffalo, N.Y. in 1973. His family left their Lackawanna home to return to Yemen when he was five years old. After his father was killed in a car accident, Derwish went to live with relatives in Saudi Arabia where he was raised and educated. U.S. intelligence sources say the Saudi government deported Derwish in 1997 for alleged extremist activities. He spent a year in Yemen before heading to back to his hometown of Lackawanna in 1998." Emphasis added. So it seems his parents were not American citizens. If that were the case then he was, at best, a '14th Amendment' baby. When his parents moved back to Yemen it gets sticky. They were never US citizens. Yemen does not allow dual citizenship. http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_YEMEN.html From above link: "BY DESCENT: Child born of an Yemeni father regardless of the child's country of birth. ... DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED. " After the age of 18 if he held a Yemen or Saudi passport AND entered the US on that passport he would, in effect, be declaring he was not a US citizen. When entering the US you are required to present a US passport as a recognized US citizen, even if you hold multiple citizenship or passports. When in the US you must declare yourself a US citizen. I know of someone who holds 4. Here is an interesting link that further explores this. Ron Paul gets it wrong on Anwar al-Awlaki's death | BullDog Pundit So they were both born on US soil, and they never renounced their citizenship? Which makes them both US citizens during the time of their deaths.
February 12, 201313 yr So they were both born on US soil, and they never renounced their citizenship? Which makes them both US citizens during the time of their deaths. No. If you are dual citizen or a citizen of another country and you present yourself as a foreign citizen when entering the country you have declared yourself not to be a US citizen. Given that he left when he was 5 or 7 and did not return US soil until he was 24 or 25 he probably was a citizen of Yemen. The US discourages dual citizenship but you can hold multiple citizenships. But in the US you MUST declare yourself and enter on a US passport at port of entry. Derwish may or may not have Certificate of Lost Nationality (CLN) by the State department. But depending upon his actions after the age of majority he may not have fulfilled his requirements as a US citizen. It is hard to see when he would have gotten a US passport while in Yemen and where he would have been recognized as a Yemen citizen. Being born on US soil by itself does not guarantee US citizenship. In fact the situation at hand here does not meet the criteria in the landmark Kim Won Ark case since his parents were never domiciled in the US.
February 12, 201313 yr Author If you are dual citizen or a citizen of another country and you present yourself as a foreign citizen when entering the country you have declared yourself not to be a US citizen. You mean lying about your birthplace to get student a loan would make you a non-us citizen? I feel as if others have done this....... Given that he left when he was 5 or 7 and did not return US soil until he was 24 or 25 he probably was a citizen of Yemen. The US discourages dual citizenship but you can hold multiple citizenships. But in the US you MUST declare yourself and enter on a US passport at port of entry. Do we know what was on his passport? According to wiki, in 1993, he received a corrected passport with a NM birthplace. That is the government recognizing his citizenship, correct? Being born on US soil by itself does not guarantee US citizenship. In fact the situation at hand here does not meet the criteria in the landmark Kim Won Ark case since his parents were never domiciled in the US. As I said, when the government issued him a passport, did they not recognize his citizenship?
February 12, 201313 yr You mean lying about your birthplace to get student a loan would make you a non-us citizen? I feel as if others have done this....... Ouch...I think that a subject for another thread... Do we know what was on his passport? According to wiki, in 1993, he received a corrected passport with a NM birthplace. That is the government recognizing his citizenship, correct? As I said, when the government issued him a passport, did they not recognize his citizenship? I had not seen that. But if the government issued him a US passport then someone at State considered him a US citizen. This situation points the danger of 'anchor babies'. Citizenship should rely not just on place of birth but also paternity. A true citizen has responsibilities to the state they are a citizen of. If you are simply born inside the borders but your sojourner parents pack up and go back their homeland it calls into question your allegiance. Apparently his father became a government official after completing his education in the US. Had he been a recognized state official from Yemen while in the US it is unlikely he would have been even an 'anchor baby' by 14th Amendment standard and the SCOTUS Kim Won Ark ruling. But that gets into a lot Constitutional and legal theory. But addressing the subject of 'American Citizens' as drone attack victims this is not a good poster child. Derwish was more Yemen than American. Multi-nationals may be a gray area. As a holder of US passport AND when you are within the boundries of the US you are subject to US laws and US Constitution protection. When you leave the US the implications of being a multi-national may work against you. This is the inherent problem with multi-national status and one of the reason that US 'discourages' dual/mufti-citizenship. It is also the problem with lax citizenship rules in general.
February 12, 201313 yr Being born on US soil by itself does not guarantee US citizenship. In fact the situation at hand here does not meet the criteria in the landmark Kim Won Ark case since his parents were never domiciled in the US. If this were the case, Derwish would still have US citizenship considering his parents were "domiciled" in NY for the first 5 years of his life. "Given that he [Awlaki?] left when he was 5 or 7 and did not return US soil until he was 24 or 25 he probably was a citizen of Yemen." That's mere speculation, there's nothing substantive backing up that claim. Legally, Awlaki and his son were both US citizens. Washington DC is not even denying this fact. How to lose citizenship: Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions ?Birther? Sen. Dianne Feinstein calls Anwar al-Awlaki a ?so-called American citizen? | Twitchy
February 13, 201313 yr If this were the case, Derwish would still have US citizenship considering his parents were "domiciled" in NY for the first 5 years of his life. That's mere speculation, there's nothing substantive backing up that claim. Legally, Awlaki and his son were both US citizens. Washington DC is not even denying this fact. How to lose citizenship: Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions ?Birther? Sen. Dianne Feinstein calls Anwar al-Awlaki a ?so-called American citizen? | Twitchy 'Domiciled' means where your permanent residence is legally. His parents never intended to stay in the US, thus they were never legally domiciled here. This was key feature of the Wong Kim Ark ruling that is the land mark ruling on the meaning of the 14th Amendment. (I incorrectly identified the ruling earlier). But that ruling has been mis-interpreted for a long time by a lot of functions and this mis-interpretation would be worthy of its own thread. But as the laws stands today the 14th Amendment and the Wong Kim Ark do not legally grant citizenship by simple jus soli. As noted it appears he got a passport from State in '93. So someone decided he was a citizen.
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.