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Sun Tzu
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Posts posted by Sun Tzu
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iii. After each contact practice, there shall be a three-hour break. During this break, there can be no gear worn, and no activity that in any way simulates football or football drills.
This restriction is in place regardless of where the practice
occurs including camps, home practices, or other workout areas. This period is solely for rest/recovery;
"regardless of where the practice occurs including camps"
How much more clear does it have to be that practice includes camps?
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You are using a section that is talking about time between practice to support an argument that players can't have contact at camps. An area which all camps that I have seen abides by, by the way.
This section that you quote pertains to "time of rest between contact practices", not "exclusion of contact practices at camps". In fact, by virtue of the Bylaws saying this time of rest must also occur at camps the same as it must occur at home practices pretty much validates the point that contact at camps is permissible. Why else would they specify that the time of rest must occur at "camps".
Football camps where contact occurs outside of the aforementioned accepted dates is a slap in the face to every program that abides by the rules.
Your reasoning is not correct regarding this issue. If your reasoning agrees with the KHSAA, then they are wrong as well.
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23 days until
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Didn't y'all get the memo? Nobody in Gtown goes by the rules... When in Gtown, do as the Gtownians do.
Lol
Another site has a similar thread.
There are camps in Campbellsville doing the same thing.
The lack of KHSAA oversight in this regard is a slap in the face to all of the schools that follow the rules.
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iii. After each contact practice, there shall be a three-hour break. During this break, there can be no gear worn, and no activity that in any way simulates football or football drills.
This restriction is in place regardless of where the practice
occurs including camps, home practices, or other workout areas. This period is solely for rest/recovery;
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In other words, these camps are considered contact practice and must follow the contact practice rules.
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The fact remains, the KHSAA remains silent on the issue. There's a reason.
Name states that's do have restrictions on "Camps" and what those restrictions are. I venture a guess that the vast majority of states stay out of camp situations.
Interesting that in Bylaw 23, Section 5, Subsection a)-(2)-f.-iii., there contains a very interesting comment about "contact practice" and "including camps" in the same subsection. This means that camps are not excluded from contact practice rules.
http://khsaa.org/handbook/20142015/bylaws.pdf
Bylaw 23: Limitations of Seasons
Sec. 5) SPORTS SPECIFIC LIMITATIONS- FOOTBALL
a) Organized practice shall be structured in football as follows:
(1) During the period beginning on the day immediately
following the dead period (Bylaw 24) and through July 31,
member schools may participate in non-contact simulations
(i.e. 7 on 7) and such participation does not count against
scrimmage limitations provided that the first practice in full
pads has not been conducted. The school issued helmet
may be used during these activities, but no other equipment
included in NFHS Rule 1-5 may be issued prior to the dates
detailed in subsection (a)(2) of this section. The KHSAA
catastrophic insurance is not in effect for these simulations if
other schools are involved;
(2) Preseason and during season practice in football shall be
as follows:
a. The first legal organized practice wearing a helmet only
shall be no earlier than July 22;
b. The first three (3) days of organized practice shall be in
helmets only and the next three (3) days shall be in helmets
and shoulder pads for acclimatization and acclimation;
c. For the three practice days in shoulder pads and helmets,
there can be no contact with other players, only with sleds
and dummies;
d. Provided such activity is conducted and supervised by
coaches meeting all qualifications of Bylaw 25, these
practice sessions shall be covered by KHSAA Catastrophic
insurance;
e. The remainder of the gear specified in NFHS Rule 1-5 can be
issued and practice in pads can begin no earlier than August
1 or the week day following the completion of the required
three (3) days of practice in helmets and shoulder pads if
such date is after August 1; and
f. Any practice period on or after August 1 where any
equipment other than the helmet and shoulder pads are
worn shall be referred to as contact practice, and shall
adhere to the following restrictions:
i. After contact practice has begun, a non-contact simulation
as detailed in sub-section 1) above may not be held;
ii. After contact practice has begun and prior to the first day of
classes for the students, a school shall not conduct multiple
on-field practice sessions in pads (e.g., two-a-days or
three-a-days) on consecutive days (e.g., two-one-two-one
format);
iii. After each contact practice, there shall be a three-hour
break. During this break, there can be no gear worn, and no
activity that in any way simulates football or football drills.
This restriction is in place regardless of where the practice
occurs including camps, home practices, or other workout
areas. This period is solely for rest/recovery;
v. The total practice time on any day where two contact
practices are conducted shall not exceed five (5) hours,
with no single contact practice exceeding three (3) hours.
The total practice time on any day where only one contact
practice is conducted shall not exceed three (3) hours.
Meetings, film study, water breaks, rest breaks and injury
treatment shall not count against the five hour limits.
Weight training, voluntary conditioning and teaching
period/walk through simulations without equipment shall
not count against the five hour limit provided the three-hour break
required for cool down is conducted prior to the additional activity
following the contact practice;
v. After the opening day of the school year, a school shall not
conduct multiple on-field practice sessions in pads (e.g.,
two-a-days or three-a-days); and
vi. All schools shall upon request, submit any required
documentation to verify the proper execution of the
practice regulations, including scrimmage, contact, and
Heat/Humidity Measurement and Compliance Programs.
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I'm pretty sure the KHSAA stands silent on the camp situations. Probably the right thing for them to do seeing how most college recruiting and evaluation starts at camps and combines. I don't think the KHSAA should get involved in that, and it would seem they agree with me.
I disagree.
If you are going to make it mandatory to only have full contact during 10 days in the spring and as of August 1st, then the KHSAA should make a rule that no camp participants have contact outside of this time period.
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Contact camps have been around for a long time. For those that are putting camps in the same category as team practices, how does camps such as Down and Dirty and Howg Heaven fit into the mix?
The only contact in full pads that should occur is during Spring Practice for the 10 practice days and during the regular season and playoffs after August 1st.
If they are legal, then the KHSAA should explicitly make rules for such camps.
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Use the Georgetown camp for example, what is taking place at the camp before Aug. 1st? What is the point of a KY team going to this camp?
They are conducting contact drills prior to the August 1st date.
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I don't know any of the teams and you evidently don't know anything for sure.
Proof that no team would pay this much money to go to one of these camps simply to condition.
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This will be a team that will surprise many people.
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No one is making an excuse.
You made an excusable statement for Haskin's actions in your original comment.
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The rules sound more like they are for on site practices put on by teams. It does not sound like it is referring to any short of camp.
It does not matter whether it is a camp off-site or practice on school grounds. The rule is in place to prevent ALL teams and players from hitting prior to August 1st.
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And now you won't have to keep asking repeatedly! :lol2:
I have known all along. Why do you continue to pour salt on a wound that does not exist?
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That is speculation and doesn't answer the question for certain.
:banana:
List one coach/team that would spend thousands of booster $$$ at a camp simply to condition.
You cannot.
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24 days until
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Good. The nation can now stop holding its collective breath.
This is old news.
The Madison Southern scrimmage was scheduled by Collins before his departure.
Riddle had not verified whether or not he was going to retain the scrimmage.
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To me this is protecting the KHSAA from liability if they participate, or why else would they state it? Not a lawyer, so I don't know. Not sure it is labeled as a team function with the wording for pay. If it were, it probably would be team fees. But then again, there might be 30 man and 60 man teams there. It is confusing to me.
I certainly would ask KHSAA for permission to do this and where does it say they are in pads? It says they can choose their sessions. There might be Sessions with pads and Sessions without.
Nobody pays that kind of money to go to football camp without pads.
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The directive is quite clear.
The preseason has been restructured as follows:
During the period beginning from July 10 through July 31, member schools may participate in non-contact simulations (i.e. 7 on 7) and such participation does not count against scrimmage limitations provided that the first practice in full pads has not been conducted.
The school issued helmet may be used during these activities, but no other equipment included in NFHS Rule 1-5 may be issued prior to the dates detailed in subsection (a)(2) of this section. The KHSAA catastrophic insurance is not in effect for these simulations if other schools are involved;
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If you look at the registration form, teams will not pay out this kind of money for conditioning.
3 Days/2 Nights
$120/player, $85/coach
4 Days/3 Nights
$150/player, $100/coach
5 Days/4 Nights
$190/player, $125/coach
6 Days/5 Nights
$220/player, $150/coach
7 Day/ 6 Nights
$250/player, $150 / coach
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Georgetown College - Camps For 2014
http://www.georgetowncollegeathletics.com/d/2013-14/2014TeamCamp.pdf
2014 Team Football Camp
July 14 - August 2
We invite you to take part in the 2014 Team Football
Camps at Georgetown College. My staff and I are
committed to making this very important time for you
and your players as beneficial as we can. Everything
you need to organize a first rate training experience
is here at Georgetown. Dorms are clean and roomy,
all air-conditioned, and within walking distance to the
cafeteria. The cafeteria is spacious and quick, not to
mention filling and tasty.
You are welcome to use weight rooms, classrooms
and meeting rooms on campus. Georgetown College
football staff will also be available 24 hours if you or
your staff would like to talk X’s and O’s.
Camp Schedule
6:15-8:15 Breakfast Served
7:30-9:30 Practice Session A
9:45-11:45 Practice Session B
11:00-1:00 Lunch Served
12:00-2:00 Practice Session A
2:45-4:45 Practice Session B
4:00-6:00 Dinner Served
6:00-7:30 Practice Session A
7:30-9:00 Practice Session B
9:00-11:00 Pizza sold in the Dorms
11:30 LIGHTS OUT !!!
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Not sure, just know that the teams there are in full gear scrimmaging other teams with their own coaches doing the coaching.
Which teams are there?
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There are teams at Georgetown college doing this right now
Which bylaw explicitly states that they can do tdhis and not follow the preseason contact rules?
Full pad pract before Aug. 1 rules
in KY Football (High School)
Posted
KHSAA implicitly states with that bylaw that practice occurs at camps; therefore, contact cannot occur at camps until August 1st.