SilverShadow

This will be one of the smartest hires in the area. Wayne is the real deal and is excellent. He did things with noting to work with at Silver Grove. Wayne will be a 24/7 baseball guy for Boone and will have them contending rather quickly. Other schools failed to take advantage of this guy and they will regret it.

I would also add the areas of concern on NCLB do deal with special needs students. The part of the student body that is also covered by IDEA. The federal mandate to force all schools to work with all students. IDEA was also suppose to pay 1/3 of the cost. To date, they only pay 18%.

Interesting correlation between the federal testing program and its poor results in a part of the population the federal government considers most at need but fails to even live up to their end of the agreement.

Who cares because a new President is coming in and true to form, we will have their view of how to save education to deal with. It changes, basically, with every President and governor.

Nothing wrong with that. If an elected leader takes a position to change or do something then it is not a bad thing if they actually set out to do it.

Conversely, to complain about a President and/or governour if they make changes - for instance, Bush on his great Texas experiment called NCLB, or as Secretary Spellings calls it "righteous cause" and one takes exception to their platform but supported them because of their other stances, well - you get what you ask for.

Kentucky education funding made simple, at the start of the legal mandate that created KERA the funding from the state for K - 12 spending in percentage of the state budget was at 62%. Today, that amount is at 44%.

Now, on a local level, as a rule of thumb, the best academic performing school districts in the state has the highest local burden percentage of the operating budget. For instance, at the start of KERA, Ft. Thomas was around 40% local tax supported, Boone County was at 35% local supported. The worst academic performing districts have watched their local obligation virtually disappear. Today, Ft. Thomas is close to 80% local tax supported. Boone County is nearly 55% and that is with the explosive growth over the last 20 years!

Bottom line, education spending has not kept up with per capita growth. For those who are interested, the states with the best academic records in the country spend over twice the amount as Kentucky does.

Last go round with "Conservative" Ernie (Waste, Fraud and Abuse Champion) perform one of the worst governance moves anyone can make. He had the ability and rammed down mandated pay raises and forced many districts, including all the ones in NorKY to pay for "his" raises for teachers salaries. Every single expert, including his own inner circle knew full well this mandated and unfunded raise would create cuts going forward.

Oh, and while your all at it, check out Senator David Williams school district funding levels. Some of the highest in the state! Do as I say, not as I do, right King David!

A very talented group and very well coach.

He coached a Cal Ripken team this summer, around this age I believe.

Imagine that! A high school coach who spends his off season time working with his kids to get better! And the results that it produces. One would think others could take notice or at least take lessons.:sleep:

Congrats to Coach Whitaker. He has consistently put his program and players in a position to win and to get better, not for him but for his players. That is why the award is well deserved.

In the layoffs planned, will this include the "employees" who work in the Florence plant but are clearly not from the "area" or do these employees have great cost controls for the company benefit?:sssh:

I know both teams last night were under the impression that the games would be in Covington.

Give it up..... or better yet, go to Covington and not watch the games played. They are at Blue Ash, end of story.

Proving once again if it is on the internet it must be true! The games are not in Covington, the plan has changed and was changed last week. Last year was the first year any of the finals were played in Covington. Why the site is not updated, who knows but the teams that are going already know.

I agree with Stayinline, get the finals at Florence Freedom will take that over Blue Ash anytime.

I guess rain had nothing to do with one of the rounds being interrupted?:sleep:

Monday night it is. :irked: I hope you guys are playing Monday too.

Tough thing about scheduling games for the benefit of the teams involved instead of the convenience of the parents. Would not even be an issue if your team would have won the game.

After watching an A ball game there on Saturday, I'd have to strongly disagree. The fields are too small for the older boys. The shortstops and 2nd basemen have to stand in the grass, and that is at normal depth.

And it was not a neutral field!:lol:

Would you at least agree that money is inefficiently used in public schools?

I asked before - vs. what? Please clarify.

The bottom line is the voucher idea is based on a perceived choice for better program. There is no question in specific areas across the country that would be true. But on a national level the data clearly shows two distinct facts:

1) Private education enrollment is on the decline compared to public education enrollment.

2) Three distinct and major studies over the past 8 years have concluded the same outcome: Public school test outcomes are marginally and statistically better than private schools. NOT by any real measurable amount but there is a distinct measurement difference in Science. The studies were done by the Christian Science Monitor, Indianna University and the most recent, the US Department of Education.

Secretary Margaret Spellings just this past week said the findings were an encouraging surprise to the Bush Administration. Not surprising because the prior announcement of the study was based on a justification to expand a voucher program. Instead, the study put a major hole in it at the federal level.

I haven't read this entire thing (yet) but it has some relative points (scroll to page 23). It is speaking about Florida's McKay Voucher program, for special education students:

 

This leads me to believe that private schools are capable of providing services to special education students. I'd assume that the market would create schools that cater especially to students who need special education. If not, then the government would need to step in, but I very much doubt that that would be the case.

I think you need to do a little more research. Under IDEA no way can anyone create schools that cater to students who need special education. That would never change even in this voucher or any voucher debate. You have to accept the constitutional fact that all kids have the right to education that is provided to all students.

Also, the government would need to step in but you doubt that would be the case??? How are special needs currently paid for? The fact is these programs are an unfunded mandate that is not compensated by any voucher program and that includes current programs. You do know the costs of the program are currently only covered to 18% of the costs? The local school has to pick up the difference. Did you know that? What market force would conceive the benefit to take on such a cost burden? I know of one case, rather several cases where costs to an individual student runs into the tens of thousands for just one student.

I guess on this question you have to look at it this way- is education a right or a privilege? I don't believe that free education is a right, but instead a privilege provided by a country that is affluent enough to provide it. If a student can not stay in school for disciplinary problems then they forfeit that privilege.

While you certainly are entitled to your opinion that education is a privilege, the fact is it is not. Rooted in every state constituion is the mandate for each state to provide for public schools. Further, it is case law in, I would say every state and federal law that education and access to education is an absolute and guaranteed right.

Now, you draw a reference to it being a privilege instead of a right and you draw a frame of reference as a disicipline consideration. I anticipated your answer but you need to understand if your contention was true as a privilege then a school could say to someone with special needs no thanks. That cannot happen now. But it could and there is really no way you could wiggle around that fact by access being considered a privilege.

Each of the locations have some great features. However, time and again the field conditions at Pendery rival any location around. Parking is the best in relation to the fields. Viewing is very good for most of the fields but some of the fields at Mills is better as is Bartlett. None of the locations can rival Pendery on shear volume and accomidations and some of the fields - plural, have lights. Concession pricing is as good if not better than others. As for playing D league games at Bartlett over Pendery, I think it comes down to personal choice but Pendery has a couple fields exclusive to D league dimensions. Pendery does not have the restroom facilities as Mills and it is a shortfall. However, if it rains on game day, or during the game the ability to continue to play is unmatched at Pendery.

When the schools are pitted in competition for each other because parents have an actual voice in their child's education (like a private school) the schools will be forced to be more efficient. Whether it is cutting salaries, saving money on transportation, or who knows, competition can only foster more efficiency.

So allow me to ask this question, if a student has special needs and very specific service requirements would the private school be required/forced to provide for this student under your voucher idea?

Further, regarding discipline would the private school still be required to educate the student even if the student was expelled under your voucher idea?

If the district thinks they would be better suited in providing good teachers while the neighboring school districts are paying $5,000 to $10,000 more per year, than go for it, I guess. It would be a stupid decision but go for it, I guess.

 

Remember also when you reduce teacher's salaries, most of the time, you reduce the minimal salaries of the bus drivers, cafeteria workers, secretaries, and the like and then cannot draw good people to serve in those roles or in case of the cafeteria workers prepare and serve the rolls.

There are way more teachers than there are jobs in all districts. I don't think a teacher can move, even if they wanted to.

I am not encouraging that teachers get paid less (and I am not one to say that teachers don't deserve more) but if teachers' salaries went down (which IMO would not happen) it would not bother me, as long as the schools became more efficient.

 

However, I don't think that teacher pay would go down. With vouchers, schools would become better overall and bad teachers would be unemployed. Stupid rules from the teachers' union such as tenure would not require schools to pay money to bad teachers. With more efficient usage of money, schools could afford to pay more to attract better quality teachers. With more pay, better qualified applicants would become teachers.

What you suggest is NOT the model used in private education currently. If the private school model is so effective then why are their employees so grossly underpaid?:thumb:

I am not encouraging that teachers get paid less (and I am not one to say that teachers don't deserve more) but if teachers' salaries went down (which IMO would not happen) it would not bother me, as long as the schools became more efficient.

 

However, I don't think that teacher pay would go down. With vouchers, schools would become better overall and bad teachers would be unemployed. Stupid rules from the teachers' union such as tenure would not require schools to pay money to bad teachers. With more efficient usage of money, schools could afford to pay more to attract better quality teachers. With more pay, better qualified applicants would become teachers.

OK.....

Now explain how much more effective and efficient a school will need to become. Outside of payroll, which is 75 to 80 percent of its operating costs, how do you become more efficient - reduce the amount of food kids are allowed to eat while charging more in the cafeteria?

:thumb: Bingo. With a school voucher system, each district would be allowed to use the money that they have in the most efficient manner possible to attract the most students. Each district is different and they should not be held to the same rules (many of which are ridiculously put on them by politicians). If any money is being wasted, the school district can choose to use it in a different way, or not.

Would this include a pay scale reduction of teacher salaries? Is that acceptable in your mind to become more productive?

Would you at least agree that money is inefficiently used in public schools?

Vs. What?

The kids of the founder wanted high salaries for not much talent. In name only did it survive this long.

The chart and data is very liberal in its totals to compare to private education is really a wasted time in addition and subtraction. A couple of cost issues to suggest private schools are more economical - 1) The pay for teachers is about 30% average higher than private schools. That is the case in NorKY. Now, if you wish to debate the merit if teachers should be paid that or less, fine. However, any education establishment will have 75% of their operating expenses in payroll. 2) No services provided by the private school industry. As a rule of thumb there is no transportation costs, alternative school costs, special needs expenses, etc. that are borne by private school operating expenses.

So to compare the operating costs and expenditures and suggest private schools are cheaper, make to sure to add because the private schools do not come close to providing the level of services to its student population.

To suggest otherwise is simply wrong.