Calico Jack

Let’s just look at two jobs that are open right now, and places that, IMO (as well as many others I’m sure) would consider to be “good jobs”, maybe even could be argued that they are “great” jobs- I wouldn’t dispute that on either, but let’s just call them “good” for the sake of argument  (school district as a whole, the towns, pay, resources, leadership, etc) in Central Hardin and McCracken County.

Central Hardin has been around since 1990 and is about to have their 7th head coach in that time (and, the 6th this millennia). 2024 will be their 35th year, and that’s less than 6 full years on average per coach up until this point.  Hardin County/Elizabethtown is Bowling Green/Warren County without WKU, and even without a major university is still every bit as great of a town to live in and growing by the day with no end in sight. 
 

McCracken County is going on their 5th since 2013. There has been four in the previous eleven seasons, and this will be their 5th in twelve. To put THAT in perspective, can anybody tell me a school/program in that nice of a town, with that good of a school district from academics to every sport played, that pays as well as they do, with that nice of facilities, with that number of players year in year out, with what seemingly has always a very sports minded administration from the top down that just so happens to be the only high school in their school district? If so, I’ll wait.

3 hours ago, VF111 said:

I would argue that for the most part, since about 1990, turn over is pretty much a steady part of the profession. The advent of the internet and the attention that sites like this bring to the occurrence make it seem like a lot.

Take the BG area for example. Desirable place to work and coach. Some of the better pay for teachers in both the county and city systems, good coaching stipends for the most part, and WKU with a wealth of young coaches and a teachers' college in the backyard. From 1990 to 2010, in the four High Schools (pre South Warren), the area saw 16 different HC's in a 20 year period. Take each HS and its 20 year span and you get 80/16 for an average coaching span of 5 years.   

1990 to 2010

BGHS - Dan Haley, Kevin Wallace

Greenwood - Virgil Livers, Greg Ulasiewicz, Mark Nelson, Greg Cavanah

Warren East - Kevin Wallace, Randy Reese, Mark Spader, Mac Smith, Mark Gary, Ben Bruni

Warren Central - Joe Hood, Rick Wood, Bill Cox, Mike Rogers

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but wanted to share that take on the issue. 

Spot on.

Not to be a downer, but it’s not going to get any better, either. 
 

And I’ve never hoped I’m more wrong about anything in my life. 
 

I got to working on it once before, but longevity (which, in this day and age I’d argue 5 or more years somewhere) is getting so rare. 
 

So many places , and more times than not, are the same - I don’t know, let’s say 2/3’s of the schools across the state (or somewhere between 50% and 67%) are lucky if the coaching tenure(s) at their school(s) fully surpass the 4 year mark on average for tenure this century and more than an uncomfortable amount are even less than that.

Social media and everybody feeling like their opinion matters and/or it gaining traction with power(s) to be in district(s), extremely unrealistic expectations across many facets, better financial opportunities (be it steps up the ladder into administrative positions and/or the chance to “double dip” by going to a private school and/or across the borders of KY into other states), the “zen”/peace that many find once they get out of it with years left on the clock to not have to deal with the crazy that comes with the job, etc.

(That list could go on and on)

But, all are factors as to why I think we are seeing even more of a turnover this century alone, and one that, while I hope it changes, one that I don’t see slowing down anytime soon- if anything, getting worse.

3 hours ago, DearToday said:

School systems, boosters, and parents can't get done whatever they want to get done in the grand scheme of things. 

Russell Co. HFC stipend is 10,000. Which, off the top of my head, is maybe $500 more than SW’s/Pulaski.

8 hours ago, futurecoach said:

 

Which to answer your question on why more teams don’t opt out, is because usually at most it may just be two games a team would be running away from. Since usually at most only two teams in district that may be head and shoulders better than you. So no need to opt out. Plus as I have mentioned, the schools may believe just like I do. That opting out would hurt the program more than help and hurt numbers too. 
 

I can definitely get on board with those that want to completely get rid of districts all together though. 

Tell it.

I posted this on 2/22/24 when in the 25/26 Realignment thread.

Completely do away with districts. Ohio has classes, but no districts and still have old school conferences. Let programs schedule how they see fit for what's best for them and their program. If you think you have a legitimate shot to make a run? Schedule tougher. If you have no business going to the playoffs outside of maybe getting past the first round (in the current set up)? Schedule lighter.

    The fact of the matter is, there are only eight teams at the most each year, in every class that have a legit chance at winning the whole thing as is and if we are being completely honest with ourselves, it's more like half of that, or yes, even less).

    Either way, do away with districts. Using the '25 calendar:

    
        7/28- 1st Day of Practice (here is a shocker....that's also about the time that most all college levels begin their practices. "What? (not you @barrel, but those gasping at the first thought of this) you mean wait until then like they do?" (I know. I should be fit for a straight jacket with that crazy thought).
     
        9/5- Week 1- Labor Day Weekend- (like 95% of the entire college football world & now I'm really starting to sound like some loony tune)
     
        9/12- Week 2 (Guess who doesn't even start until this week? The highest playing level of the sport in the entire world. See, I'm really talking out of my skull now. Blasphemy, I know.)
     
        9/19- Week 3
        9/26- Week 4
        10/3- Week 5
        10/10- Week 6
        10/17- Week 7
        10/24- Week 9
        10/31- Week 10
        11/7- Week 11
        11/14- Week 12
        11/21- Round 1/Region Finals & for those that didn't make the playoffs? Let's say teams 9-16 based off RPI, CalPreps, whatever computer system, etc)? Those 8 for each class get to play in a "bowl" game.
     
        11/28- Round 2/Semis
     
        12/5-12/6- State Finals (and, before anybody starts talking about the State Finals needing to be on Thanksgiving Weekend as if that happened last year or recent memory? It's been since the late 80's that they stopped being played then, some 35 years ago or thereabouts)
     

    By doing this?

    1) Even those that don't make the playoffs get 11 games, as most all do now & those in 5 or 6 team districts that don't make it in the current set up would get one more than they do now.

    2) The "Y'all have a good squad, but you aren't winning the thing" get 12 games, which, going off the current set up is where the majority of their season(s) end as is.

    3) The game becomes (wait for it, more crazy talk coming here) the fall sport it was intended to be, and for some odd reason(s), the way the collegiate levels and NFL have always chose to play it.

    4) More kids will come out (start date).

    5) Programs will also able to fill a full staff + less head coaching turnover due to not losing all of their sanity (start date + deep down knowing they aren't taking an '88 Dotson, no matter how much time, work and effort you put into it, to the Dayton 500).
 

On 1/2/2024 at 9:39 AM, Arndog said:

I think he left the team when they decided to run a wishbone instead of passing it. That explains why others numbers are higher.

Woodford has been running the flexbone, not wishbone, and even with that, the last couple years they’ve slung it around plenty. 

2 hours ago, theguru said:

I agree.  However it depends on what was reported, who it was reported to, and if the identity of the reporting party is even known.  The Kentucky Revised Statues probably don't cover something like this as a criminal matter (this is open for debate if anyone wants to go there, I don't) so I think the only remedy is to sue the offending party civilly like you suggested. 

Absolutely.  I would think there would be some sort of suit towards slander/libel, depending on the manner in which this anonymous and completely bogus (as well as potentially career and life ruining) accusations were made.

15 minutes ago, theguru said:

Just another example of how "whistleblower actions" are frequently abused.  

Precisely.  Now it’s time for those two to take the whistleblowers to court. Whether they will or not, I don’t know.

All based off an anonymous tip witch hunt (no pun intended).  There is nothing to this & look for the both of them to be reinstated.

21 hours ago, Nuke LaLoosh said:

The next coach will make the 16th coach (Stonebraker was there twice) in the programs 51 year history.  It’s hard to have success when you’re changing coaches on an average of every 3 years.

Accurate & they aren't alone.

I would be completely shocked if the average tenure across the state, with all programs factored in, is above 4-5 (at the most) years. If that isn't the overall average, I'd be willing to say that it is, however, the case for 75% of the programs across the state & more of those closer to the 4 (shade above, shade below) than the 5 year average tenure.

Congrats to Coach Lopez. This has been a long time coming and very much earned and deserved!

Nobody can argue this, and the same would be true for the rest of the classes.

Absolutely wonderful @common_sense_eagle

19 hours ago, barrel said:

It is things like this that makes me wish we would do away with districts. Let teams form league/conferences. Find some way similar to other states to qualify for the playoffs. Some districts almost create a death sentence for programs. 

Completely do away with districts. Ohio has classes, but no districts and still have old school conferences. Let programs schedule how they see fit for what's best for them and their program. If you think you have a legitimate shot to make a run? Schedule tougher. If you have no business going to the playoffs outside of maybe getting past the first round (in the current set up)? Schedule lighter.

The fact of the matter is, there are only eight teams at the most each year, in every class that have a legit chance at winning the whole thing as is and if we are being completely honest with ourselves, it's more like half of that, or yes, even less).

Either way, do away with districts. Using the '25 calendar:

• 7/28- 1st Day of Practice (here is a shocker....that's also about the time that most all college levels begin their practices. "What? (not you @barrel, but those gasping at the first thought of this) you mean wait until then like they do?" (I know. I should be fit for a straight jacket with that crazy thought).
• 9/5- Labor Day Weekend- Week 1 (like 95% of the entire college football world & now I'm really starting to sound like some loony tune)
• 9/12- Week 2 (Guess who doesn't even start until this week? The highest playing level of the sport in the entire world. See, I'm really talking out of my skull now. Blasphemy, I know.)
• 9/19- Week 3
• 9/26- Week 4
• 10/3- Week 5
• 10/10- Week 6
• 10/17- Week 7
• 10/24- Week 9
• 10/31- Week 10
• 11/7- Week 11
• 11/14- Week 12
• 11/21- Round 1/Region Finals & for those that didn't make the playoffs? Let's say teams 9-16 based off RPI, CalPreps, whatever computer system, etc)? Those 8 for each class get to play in a "bowl" game.
• 11/28- Round 2/Semis
• 12/5-12/6- State Finals (and, before anybody starts talking about the State Finals needing to be on Thanksgiving Weekend as if that happened last year or recent memory? It's been since the late 80's that they stopped being played then, some 35 years ago or thereabouts)

By doing this?

1) Even those that don't make the playoffs get 11 games, as most all do now & those in 5 or 6 team districts that don't make it in the current set up would get one more than they do now.

2) The "Y'all have a good squad, but you aren't winning the thing" get 12 games, which, going off the current set up is where the majority of their season(s) end as is.

3) The game becomes (wait for it, more crazy talk coming here) the fall sport it was intended to be, and for some odd reason(s), the way the collegiate levels and NFL have always chose to play it.

4) More kids will come out (start date).

5) Programs will also able to fill a full staff + less head coaching turnover due to not losing all of their sanity (start date + deep down knowing they aren't taking an '88 Dotson, no matter how much time, work and effort you put into it, to the Dayton 500).

13 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

2A. You can't have a district with 4 teams and a district with 6 teams right next to each other.

Not the most ideal, but sometimes unavoidable. That’s the case right now with both 2A D5 & D6 and 3A D5 & D6.

On 2/18/2024 at 2:59 PM, JellyRoll said:

Any updates on this opening? I’m told Jackson turned it down.

Also hearing that Josh Jaggers May be in the running.

Neither of these are the case.  Jackson hasn’t turned it down. He and Josh are pretty tight. I could see a definite possibility of him going there to help Tyler or if he turned it down maybe then some interest, but Jackson hasn’t turned the job down.

2 hours ago, okie1 said:

All of these things are legit issues...but if a school allows these issues to keep from hiring the best possible candidate and 'making it work"...they aren't serious about a great program.

I don't disagree. With Daviess Co, I don't think it's an issue of making it work, but having to go about it maybe not as timely as some think, given those hurdles and potential "issues"....which could potentially work in their favor by not rushing things and instead, knowing what exactly they are going to have open and/or possibly created.

If they were a one horse town school system and didn't have Apollo (or vice versa), then a position(s) could be created whenever they wanted....if needed....if they were serious about it.

Pointing out the obvious here, but in the Daviess County School District (and, others), what they have to do for one high school, they have to do for the other (if it's not already in place).

On 2/5/2024 at 9:54 AM, Hatz said:

Georgetown.  Easily one of the best programs in the 80's and into the 90's.  Nothing since.

St. Johns is in the same category.  The rise of UConn seems to have brought the demise of the Johnnies.  

Over Christmas Break, I found a stack of old Sports Illustrated from the '90's. One of those "most random finds ever" type deals, and it was an issue of when Felipe Lopez had signed with St. John's.

But, I agree with all of you....just a spot on list.  Georgetown would definitely top mine, then Georgia Tech, Indiana, UNLV, DePaul, etc.

Georgetown was like the "O.G" Oregon, but for basketball. The original "Jordan Brand" program. Nobody else in college basketball had the patent leather J's, but they sure did (I don't even think UNC had the hook ups that G'town did? Or so it didn't seem like that. I never could figure that out)

Needless to say, I think it would be a great thing for college basketball to see those programs make a run back at some kind of prominence. It's great to see newer programs like the Gonzaga's of the world, once considered just to be a cinderella, not become an imposing figure in March.

I wouldn't mind seeing a March Madness, again, though with the Hoyas, Runnin' Rebels, Hoosiers (ehh, maybe not on second thought), Blue Demons and the Red Storm, though. I'd welcome it. Make it feel like 1991, again. A little "Back to the Future": College Basketball Edition. 

On 2/3/2024 at 11:47 PM, TimeWillTell said:

Still no news? I would think they had at least had a few interviews. Maybe it's a job nobody cares about. 

It's a little more complicated than that. This time of year if there aren't any positions available for prospective coaches on the outside, then districts, especially those where there are more than one high school in the district, don't fully know their staffing allocations for the next school year. 

This is also the time of year where district letters of intent are also being sent out and signed. Now and the next couple weeks is when individual schools and districts as a whole have a better of idea of what will be available and what won't. If it's going to be an internal hire, then more times than not that's not even an issue (if in fact they are already teaching in the building and/or district somewhere).

This time of year, depending on the flexibility given to those who are on the hiring committee, can be really tough with boys/girls basketball, wrestling, swimming, archery etc going on where AD's and other admin, along with parents who are representing members of the SBDM that may or may not be on the committee that have their own kids with their schedules (especially those in high school).

Often times, hiring committees, if made up of 4-6 people usually try to have a SBDM at the high school that has some skin in the game. If the principal and AD can get a member that fills the role of a parent as well a a staff member? That's usually a go to move.

In other instances, the hire is placed solely in the hands of the AD & if they have no teaching responsibilities (which, none of them should have to worry about teaching IMO), then they can typically move a lot faster bc they have their days wide open & evening athletic schedules don't come into play. 

With all of that said, I'm about 100% positive that the interview process has started (late last week) and/or is beginning this week.

On 2/3/2024 at 9:26 PM, barrel said:

The season/year is a long grind. People need a break from 7 day a week work weeks for 2-3 months. If they took the week off but no one knew if any left for a vacation would that change things? If assistant coaches want to practice that week I’m sure they all had the chance to put in their input. This doesn’t even take into account players taking vacations. 
 

What would people think if you didn’t do anything in June? Scott Co hasn’t done anything in June in forever and it appears to work for them. Using the bye week/fall break off as an excuse or against a coach is pretty weak. 

And I'd be willing to say the same ones complaining about "work ethic" (aka, taking off fall break/open week) were the same one's complaining (not directly to him of course) about 6am practices during parts of the week all through August up through September. 

An effort in which started to avoid heat index issues with a new turf field, zero shade around, avoid any potential usage issues with other sports & an attempt to maximize weekly preparation time where they could effectively practice, film, lift, condition,(all players, even scout team/younger) etc during the week and not let any of those slip like often times happens as you get into the season in places where you have to do everything after school.

Josh will be fine if he wants to coach again. While his overall record isn't the shiniest, all be it at not exactly at the helm of house hold name programs, he's got a region title under his belt and 6 or 7 total playoff wins in his 10 years.  Lincoln County will be as well, but they have to give the next person time or help make it enticing for them to stick around. Going on their 7th head coach in just over 20 years? There are more issues than taking fall break/open week off this season.

They've got a talented junior to be class where many of them were counted on in 2023. The biggest thing they've got to do, though, is stay healthy. The last two years, it wasn't a roster full of kids with rocket boosters up their tails, but the ones they did have? Were either sidelined for the entirety or for the majority of the season, both in 2022 and 2023.

That's where toxic, crap among adults with ulterior motives hurts the most. The kids. Both the players and his kids were they up and moved from where they were already rooted and had started school. In the long run, though, they'll all be fine. Kids adjust to change far better than adults more times than not, or at least a lot more than we give them credit for.

Lincoln will more than likely still fall high end 4A with the next realignment, firmly in a district/region with Boyle and Corbin. If they barely slide into 5A? They'll fall in with Pulaski County, Southwestern and that bunch which did them no favors for a 10 year stretch

Since 2002, Lincoln County will be looking for its 7th coach. I'm no rocket scientist, however, the 2024 season is coming up. I'd say we are all pretty good at basic math enough to figure out that average tenure.

In the previous 22 seasons, under the previous 6 coaches, there has been:

- Only 4 winning seasons

- Eleven of those seasons have been 1-3 win seasons. Ten of those years were in the previous 20 seasons before Jaggers. 

- Each of the previous six coaches owns at least one of those 1-3 win seasons.

- The late Robbie Lucas, who was let go after the '03 season won 4 games in his two years before getting forced out. Then later went back to Somerset as an assistant for a few years, before then getting the head job in '09 where he he won 9 region titles, a state runner up and Somerset finally kicking down the door to win their first state title.

- Larry French won 7 games in his first two years. Then capped off his four year tenure with a 10-2 2006 season and Lincoln's last of their 4 region titles in 2007.

- Mike Settles took three seasons to win 7 games after taking over in 2008. The same Mike Settles who led Ohio County to their only playoff win to date in 2002. Mike then goes to Bullitt East in 2003-2007 where he wins a region title there, and worst season being 5-6 in '07. 5-6 was the best he could muster up, however, at Lincoln.

- Travis Leffew won six games in his first two years won 6 games. He had three, 3 win seasons and a one win season. 

- Spencer Crutchfield won 10 games in his first two years and owns half of the total winning seasons since '02 and two playoff wins. Despite his successes there, and they were just that, he still finished with a losing record while there.

- Josh Jaggers won 6 in his only two years.

Since '95 there has only been two seasons where they've had back to back years where they've won at least one playoff game each year (2006 & 2007).

9 minutes ago, okie1 said:

I know that I have heard Mayfield, Bowling Green, Owensboro to name a few that have taken the week of fall break off if they don't have a game.  I am pretty sure that I heard Campbellsville may also do this.

I guess those aren't successful programs.

Lincoln didn’t have a game that week and you are spot on with those other programs. It’s a pretty common thing for the many that have week long fall breaks if they can time their open week up with it. Extremely common.

2 minutes ago, MrKnowNothing said:

It is a given that the job is Tyler Jackson.

 

Yep!

31 minutes ago, okie1 said:

Is Pulaski co a better job than Franklin right now?  Only upside I can see is that 5A might not be as loaded as 4A.  

That would be one edge, then again...trading Boyle deep into the playoffs at some point for a chance with Bowling Green.

I know overall pay wise there is no comparison with the advantage to Franklin.  Franklin's HC stipend, as it is for Western Hills as well, ranges between $7,891-$9,754 based off years experience from 0-15 years (stops at 15). Their teaching pay (w/ a Rank 1) schedule caps out at $72,658 for year 27, then at $74,859 at year 30.  Year 11 teaching at Franklin County ($61,167) is more than year 27+ in the Pulaski system ($60,825).

That is a whole lot of difference in coin over the years while in education between the two, which obviously effects those retirement years as well.

There is only a $3,300+ raise in pay teaching from year 10-27 in the Pulaski County System

2 hours ago, Footballfan99 said:

Interviews are a two way street. Interviewee should also be learning about the job and determining if it’s a good fit through the interview process.

Bingo.

To add onto what's been said in the above by @StudRB and @UKBaseball85, along with some others who have pointed it out. So many have no clue whatsoever how hard it is to win any at all in some of these one horse town (with not many more stoplights than the horse), rural county schools where the student population is so ridiculously spread out, placing you in a class that is about 1-3 higher than you really should be based off the area(s) where you actually draw students that participate in anything, let alone football.