HT721

I’ll add too that this photo is part of what runs officials off, I called a game this year at a power program still alive in the playoffs that has a tv on the sidelines, their coaches criticized us constantly about 4 plays prior on something they saw on the replay they didn’t like. To be honest it was a program I greatly respected before that game, but for example holding our crew takes a philosophy that if holding is away from the point of attack on a run play we generally let it go to avoid a flag fest game. But photos like this and teams setting up replay cameras when officials can’t even see them are a huge turnoff. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on clinics, books, and licensing fees and I’ve never woke up trying to cheat a kid I don’t even know, but the criticism seems to be worse thanks in large part to technology.

On this play I believe if you are consistent you can call it, but for me and crew I’m on it’s not a call we would make. Consistency and a philosophy are important for a crew and if you have one and stick to it I think that’s a much bigger deal than this play. But you can bet next preseason when our crew reconvenes we will watch this play and discuss it at length.

I’ve commented on this some and I will add if the ball isn’t thrown behind the receiver a good chance of no contact as well, the idea of unavoidable contact as mentioned comes to mind again. The receiver has to cut back for the call when he seems to have the corner beat. This is a bang bang play, but for me I can think of a half dozen reasons why I wouldn’t call it and only one of why I would. NASO runs a publication called referee.com and they have several books I’ve read written by seasoned officials one of them is called “The Ultimate Book On Pass Interference” it basically refers to five moves that constitute defensive PI. 1. Not playing the ball 2. Grabbing the arm 3. Cutoff 4. Armbar 5. Hook and turn. This one is most similar to a cutoff however, because the ball is under thrown that is the main reason for the cutoff, more so than the defender trying to.

I honestly don’t care who won the game. Most of the discussion has been about how officials will interpret and enforce the rules. It can vary of course from crew to crew and area to area.

 

7-5-11

Would be another rule to look at if one doesn’t agree with the expanded neutral zone explanation

That’s what I was getting at with the ball under thrown, it’s obvious how the receiver is going back that the ball is not going to the designed location which to me contributes to the contact. I have no dog in this fight as I work games in a far away region that rarely plays either of these teams, but it is an excellent play to analyze from a rules/philosophy position.

Great point. On a slightly different note is that something you can ask during pregame or even bring up on call like on a jailbreak screen? That the player caught the ball in the expanded neutral zone.

 

Btw I agree it’s not DPI. My first though is for that ball to get tipped up like that the Belfry player would of hit it before or at the same time as contact.

I think so, I believe it’s 100% fair game to ask the white hat during head coaches meeting what the crew philosophy is on this or that, keeping in mind that the meetings usually only have time for 2-3 minutes of talking.

If you want to see a Hazard look at Harlan Independent's field. One endzones slopes up hill in the corner and the boundary lines literally intersect at the start of the pavement for the track. I'm amazed yearly when someone isn't destroyed being tackled on to the track.

The rule states that it “may be” expanded not that is always expanded. It can be expanded for one player on a play and not for another. For example on a play action pass an OL engages a DL and drives him up to 2 yards downfield. He is given the expanded neutral zone. If another OL in the same play is not engaged with a defender but drifts downfield 2 yards he is considered illegally downfield.

 

If you take the rule as the expanded neutral zone always exists then a QB could be up to 2 yards past the LOS and still throw the ball legally. That is not the case.

 

I believe someone stated the defender tipped the ball. If he tips the ball before contact or at the same time as contact then there is no DPI.

The fact we are having this discussion shows how close a call it is. Passing for the Passer is about the only time I wouldn't expand the neutral zone though as a wing official. A big thing is to be consistent in how you treat it, I've always been taught and treated a pass as though it needs to be two yards from beyond the line of scrimmage before I call PI. I, also usually won't give the benefit of the doubt to a receiver like this when the ball is thrown behind him and he has to turn back to try and get it. Incidental contact does happen and the odds of it happening are greatly increased when a ball is under thrown.

Something else that hasn’t been mentioned, that isn’t the key for the official that threw the flag. This is part of why I don’t like not running a 7 man crew all year. A crew does it once or twice in regular season then doesn’t do it again until the third round. In a 5 man crew it is his key, but not in the 7 man.

You can jam and bang rec almost all the way down the field in Fed rules. It has to do with a player being a potential blocker. Most officials say as soon as the rec gets even with you he is no longer a potential blocker. They still allow the contact as long as you don’t turn the rec or impede. Of course if he hit the guy early you’ll get the call too.

 

The rule about the expanded neutral zone I’ve only seen applied to OL and DL. I can’t find any place it references the an example of a forward pass that includes contact to a rec.

The expanded neutral zone applies to everything, that is why I cited both rules, often times to understand an entire situation it takes looking at both rule 7 is where you see about the ball havig to be past the neutral zone for PI and rule 2 defines what is the neutral zone and neutral zone expanded post snap.

The ball pops up in the air right? If so who does the ball deflect off of?

 

I know it was mentioned that you can’t touch the rec at all but I’ve never witnessed it enforced like that. In fact on the HS level you use to (and can still a lot of times) get away with beating the snot out of recs.

In the expanded neutral zone you can jam the receiver so you can have contact there which is where this contact occurs. The ball must clear the expanded neutral zone untouched before you the contact restrictions kick in.

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No interference rule 7-5-7 states no PI until beyond the neutral zone and rule 2-28-2 allow for expansion of neutral zone two yards behind the defensive line of scrimmage. This is a no call Touchdown by the book. The ball appears to be snapped at the 44 yard line with d line at about the 44.5 yard mark and first contact occurs at the 46 yard line.

 

These guys at South Greene I'd bet have done this before.

Which is why Kentucky and everyone else should use licensed officials for chain crew and clock operator starting in second round. Let’s more officials work more playoffs games and makes sure this garbage doesn’t happen.

Why you clip the chains, the officials should’ve measured it with the clip either way and this isn’t an issue.

I'll come back and say I agree it's priobably Racelande/Paintsville on paper but outside of Beechwood/Frankfort the other three should all three be good games with a lot on the line.

Correction, was told the Principal did have some assistant coaching experience.

They are calling it a resignation, but it was definitely forced. Also was told by multiple people that before the season started the principal (who has never really coached) forced Chappell to run the offense of his choosing, and that fact has already ran off a couple of targets Whitley wanted to hire for next year.

When healthy, I think Pikeville is the best team in the eastern half of 1A by at least two scores. Williamsburg has put together a great year, and that win over Hazard was one of the real eye catching scores from last Friday, but they gave up 44 points to Lynn Camp a few weeks ago. Pikeville just manhandled that same Lynn Camp squad last week in every phase. They're just rolling right now. If the Panthers overlook Williamsburg, they could be in for a long night. But I can't imagine McNamee allowing his guys to overlook anyone this time of year. I think Williamsburg will see the the sharpest, best prepared version of the Panthers. If that's the case, give me Pikeville by three touchdowns. I fully expect Williamsburg to put up a fight, though. They won't roll over.

Cook went down in the first quarter for Lynn Camp, don’t kid yourself if you don’t think that made a huge difference.

Bell’s 11-1 record is from a week schedule, Corbin is battle tested and at home. Corbin by 28+.

Williamsburg showed a lot of resilience when Hazard got the turnover to pull within 27-21 it would have been easy to fold. Instead they. Came out in the third quarter and laid the hammer. Be interested to see if they can go rob Pikeville and make a game of it. They can’t get ahead of themselves, but they have as good a shot as anyone left in the Easy yo head to Kroger.

LC at home gets a ten win season.

It is a valid argument

 

But if we are only looking at final score margins you also have to look at their scores against Leslie County, Somerset, and fellow 1A Frankfort.

 

I think 8 is a pretty accurate spot all things considered, but I definitely agree that an argument can certainly be made to be higher!

 

Campbellsville only has one loss, but that Casey County loss has got rid of some it's luster with their performance against Corbin and Bell County.

 

It is hard to justify jumping one loss Crittenden though with their lone loss being a competitive game against 3A Caldwell County.

Absolutely no really good way to decide who is better than who in these kind of things, but no conversation if I just say it looks right .

Williamsburg should be 6, other than that I agree. But, when you look at their score against Paintsville and what Paintsville has done since, no way they are 8th in 1a. Their region may be the toughest in 1A next month.

Lynn Camp gets exposed tonight, Burg wins 42-20

This one won’t be in doubt in the fourth quarter 35-14 Hazard.

Williamsburg with a running clock.