December 20, 200817 yr Let me remind everyone that I did say this is not the action that I would have taken. So for purposes of discussion I am making points to consider while not necessarily saying this is the action I would have recommended or supported. We sometimes have a problem separating discussion from one's personal choices and make personal attacks. I could make this thread real boring and just agree with everyone else but chose to make some points and references to get everyone thinking a little. A couple things here: 1) If anything I've stated was taken as a "personal attack", please know it was not intended as such and you have my apologies. 2) I appreciate your desire to get the brain juices flowing. 3) I do believe that at some point in a thread of this nature you need to provide some scriptural basis to support some of your points if you truly believe them.
December 20, 200817 yr The Scripture that is being used in the article Matthew 18 A Brother Who Sins Against You 15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven. 19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
December 20, 200817 yr Here's the article from Fox http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469928,00.html Hancock sent a formal letter of resignation after receiving the elders' ultimatum in hopes of solving the dispute. She said she fears for her 20-year-old son and 18-year-old daughter if the church carries out its threat. “I don’t really care what they do to me. But I am concerned about my children sitting in church with their mother being crucified by the church that they trust,” she said. “I am very concerned about how it would affect them.”
December 20, 200817 yr From the article, "On January 4, my sins will be told to the church, publicly, with my children sitting in the church and my friends," Hancock said. Hancock said she is now attending a different church, and said she is planning to send a letter to Grace Community Church to make sure it's understood that she no longer a member. Why are her kids still attending if she is attending somewhere else? Had she been flaunting this sinful relationship in front of her ex-husband and family at church? A lot of untold story here. Agreed, but you're making some fairly sizeable assumptions in your past two posts. Not possible that her kids are old enough to attend the church of their choice? Our music minister's 17-year old son stayed at their prior church when he accepted the position at our church. (He was very close to the youth group there).
December 20, 200817 yr The Scripture that is being used in the article Matthew 18 A Brother Who Sins Against You 15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven. 19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." The critical portions for me . . . .
December 20, 200817 yr A couple things here: 1) If anything I've stated was taken as a "personal attack", please know it was not intended as such and you have my apologies. 2) I appreciate your desire to get the brain juices flowing. 3) I do believe that at some point in a thread of this nature you need to provide some scriptural basis to support some of your points if you truly believe them. 1) Not to this point but I know how things work out and someone comes flying in, hasn't got the tone of the discussion and calls me an intolerant Christian bigot. They get suspended for it, grow despondent from not having BGP in their life and holds up a 7-11. They get put in jail and I have to support their children through my taxes.:thumb::lol: 2) I am a teacher.:lol: 3) I have provided several stories from the Bible where Jesus held sinners publically accountable for their actions and I have indicated that Jesus tells us to pattern our life after his. I would assume He meant the entire part of His life and not expecting us to pick and choose what parts we are comfortable with. Although that whole healing people and feeding 5,000 with a couple loaves of bread I have not figure out how to do.
December 20, 200817 yr Here's the article from Fox http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469928,00.html This seems to be for an emotional tug more than anything as it is indicated that her relationship is fairly well known. BTW, talking to Fox News, won't her kids hear about it there too. Maybe even be a little more humiliated than they were in front of the congregation.
December 20, 200817 yr The critical portions for me . . . . I agree critical portions and we do not know if there was a sin against the church from the information that we have. Does not seem to be but we do not know that. There would seem to be something there for the church to continue on with this.
December 20, 200817 yr 1) Not to this point but I know how things work out and someone comes flying in, hasn't got the tone of the discussion and calls me an intolerant Christian bigot. They get suspended for it, grow despondent from not having BGP in their life and holds up a 7-11. They get put in jail and I have to support their children through my taxes.:thumb::lol: 2) I am a teacher.:lol: 3) I have provided several stories from the Bible where Jesus held sinners publically accountable for their actions and I have indicated that Jesus tells us to pattern our life after his. I would assume He meant the entire part of His life and not expecting us to pick and choose what parts we are comfortable with. Although that whole healing people and feeding 5,000 with a couple loaves of bread I have not figure out how to do. #1 is funny. :lol: My response to #3 is still the same. Jesus was God. We are not. We are burdened with sin. He was not. We do not have the authority or power to do exactly and everything he did. Surely in our attempts to emulate his life you wouldn't suggest we also die on the cross?
December 20, 200817 yr I think that her kids obviously already know. But the point of the elders to chastise her in public, after she has resigned from the church, seems designed to punish her, more IMO because she challenged them, or thwarted them, than any real attempt to "set her on the right path".
December 20, 200817 yr #1 is funny. :lol: My response to #3 is still the same. Jesus was God. We are not. We are burdened with sin. He was not. We do not have the authority or power to do exactly and everything he did. Surely in our attempts to emulate his life you wouldn't suggest we also die on the cross? Symbolically, yeah, I do think there might come a time that I am ask to give a major, ultimate sacrifice for Christ. If I am ask to renounce God or get decapitated as Revelations implies, yeah, I would expect to do that. If this country asks me to reject Christ because it is intolerant to say that someone else's God is wrong, I ain't doing it. So, since I am not God, I don't have to worry about loving others?
December 20, 200817 yr Symbolically, yeah, I do think there might come a time that I am ask to give a major, ultimate sacrifice for Christ. If I am ask to renounce God or get decapitated as Revelations implies, yeah, I would expect to do that. If this country asks me to reject Christ because it is intolerant to say that someone else's God is wrong, I ain't doing it. So, since I am not God, I don't have to worry about loving others? Come on. Obviously, I never said or implied anything of the sort. Just don't know that anywhere in the Bible is our Christian loving role defined as publicly humiliating someone for their sin when we ourselves are as equally guility of sin.
December 20, 200817 yr Come on. Obviously, I never said or implied anything of the sort. Just don't know that anywhere in the Bible is our Christian loving role defined as publicly humiliating someone for their sin when we ourselves are as equally guility of sin. Didn't say you did that is why it was a question? If I am not God, so I can't do what he does when calling out religious people who doing wrong, why then am I expected to be like Christ when it calls for loving others? Because the latter is a warm, fuzzy that makes say "Ahhhhh!!!" and feel good but the other is labeled intolerant? Just trying to get the thought process down. If Jesus is to be our role model, (do you agree with that?) than is His whole life the role model or just parts of it?
December 20, 200817 yr Been doing some searches on adultery on http://www.biblegateway.com, I will post some things I found. 1 Corinthians 5 Paul Condemns Spiritual Pride 1 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you—something that even pagans don’t do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.[a] 2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship. 3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church.[c] I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. 5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed[d] and he himself[e] will be saved on the day the Lord[f] returns.
December 20, 200817 yr Proverbs 5:3-20 3 For the lips of an immoral woman are as sweet as honey, and her mouth is smoother than oil. 4 But in the end she is as bitter as poison, as dangerous as a double-edged sword. 5 Her feet go down to death; her steps lead straight to the grave.[a] 6 For she cares nothing about the path to life. She staggers down a crooked trail and doesn’t realize it. 7 So now, my sons, listen to me. Never stray from what I am about to say: 8 Stay away from her! Don’t go near the door of her house! 9 If you do, you will lose your honor and will lose to merciless people all you have achieved. 10 Strangers will consume your wealth, and someone else will enjoy the fruit of your labor. 11 In the end you will groan in anguish when disease consumes your body. 12 You will say, “How I hated discipline! If only I had not ignored all the warnings! 13 Oh, why didn’t I listen to my teachers? Why didn’t I pay attention to my instructors? 14 I have come to the brink of utter ruin, and now I must face public disgrace.” 15 Drink water from your own well— share your love only with your wife. 16 Why spill the water of your springs in the streets, having sex with just anyone?[c] 17 You should reserve it for yourselves. Never share it with strangers. 18 Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. 19 She is a loving deer, a graceful doe. Let her breasts satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. 20 Why be captivated, my son, by an immoral woman, or fondle the breasts of a promiscuous woman?
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