So, do you think the media CAUSES the conversations people are having or do you think the media REPORTS what the people are talking about?

Both. How's that for an answer?

Aren't you doing just that? (at least to some degree).

I am not blaming the recession on the media. However, I do not think that the media is helping to end it by claiming gloom and doom at all times- it hurts consumer & investor confidence.

 

Obviously, it has to be a balancing act.

So, I'm curious - if you are assign some blame to the media for exacerbating the extent of the recession and bear stock market, do they also get credit for helping the Dow hit an all-time high of 14,000+ just over a year ago and corporate profits going through the roof these past few years?

 

I simply am not a believer that the media caused/hastened/deepened the recession or stock market plunge. They simply reported on it, as they also reported on it when things were so very rosy the past few years. Should they ignore this current story simply because it is negative? There is no financial incentive for them whatsoever to paint a more dire picture than what truly exists. Proof of this? Check out the stock market prices and profits (or lack of them) for some of the biggest media conglomerates.

 

In fact, the media didn't really report us as being in a "recession" until the past few months when, in fact, we officially entered into a recession as far back as December 2007. If there was some causual effect between the media's (false or exaggerated) reporting and us actually entering into a recession, why did the media stories not precede this December date?

 

Like I have said, the media does not cause a recession. You can stop accusing me of being a believer of that. That is why the media did not predate the recession. But the way to get out of a recession involves having consumer & investor confidence restored.

 

When I look around, I can find plenty of articles from high-profile fund managers (Bruce Berkowitz, for example) who are claiming that there are tons of bargains on the market. However, when I log into my Yahoo! Email, nearly everyday there is an article asking if we are going into the next Great Depression.

 

As for motive, there is absolutely a motive. Will you click on an article that says "We are headed for a Great Depression" or one that says "We are in a recession, but it is a natural part of the business cycle"?

 

Like I say, it is a balancing act. I find that media exaggeration can hurt the situation. Yes, the economy is in bad shape. But nothing good is ever reported. I don't want them to ignore what is going on. But perception is a part of the market, and the media helps to shape that.

I'm not an Obama fan. Far from it. But it's a bit early to condemn him for actions he hasn't taken yet. Stimulus spending is absolutely critical to get this economy going again. You can debate what the appropriate amount should be, but until he's in office and makes some horrific blunder that further prolongs or deepens the recession, the criticism seems premature. And, let's be honest, the reason you haven't seen spending like this proposed in your lifetime is because you haven't seen firsthand a recession of this magnitude in your lifetime. Media exaggerated or not . . .

I'm sorry, but I do not see anything wrong with criticizing the announced plans of a politician. If I see a trainwreck about to occur, I feel obligated to comment on it in advance instead of waiting to play Monday morning quarterback. The reason that the recession appears to be so deep is government policies that have encouraged runaway consumer debt.

 

Obama's announced plans will result in deepening private and public debt. Such policies may get a politicians through an election but somebody will pay the price eventually and I really do not want to be in that group.

At this point, depends on what area of the country you live in. Some areas it is bad. Some areas it is not. For some, that have not made themselves employable, it is hard to find a job. For those that have, it is not as hard. For those in the wrong field, it is bad. For those in the right field, it is not.

 

But I do not think it is as bad as they say but rather a good thing to get the economy back on track. For too long this economy has been driven on the back of overextended credit, credit cards and buy now pay later mentality.

 

For many years this country has been spending more than we make. As we know that is not good for the government, it ain't good for the citizens either.

 

As we went through the deficit spending, many people said, "What if I ran my household that way?"

 

Funny thing was, we were.

 

Now those bills are coming due.

At this point, depends on what area of the country you live in. Some areas it is bad. Some areas it is not. For some, that have not made themselves employable, it is hard to find a job. For those that have, it is not as hard. For those in the wrong field, it is bad. For those in the right field, it is not.

 

But I do not think it is as bad as they say but rather a good thing to get the economy back on track. For too long this economy has been driven on the back of overextended credit, credit cards and buy now pay later mentality.

 

For many years this country has been spending more than we make. As we know that is not good for the government, it ain't good for the citizens either.

 

As we went through the deficit spending, many people said, "What if I ran my household that way?"

 

Funny thing was, we were.

 

Now those bills are coming due.

 

You start putting the country in a "saving mode" and we'll all know firsthand what the Great Depression was all about. That is why interest rates are so low - to discourage saving and get money flowing through the economy again. Obviously there needs to some better scrutinizing by the banks as to whom they offer credit, but extending credit to the proper people/businesses is absolutely critical to remove us from the mess we're in,

I'm sorry, but I do not see anything wrong with criticizing the announced plans of a politician. If I see a trainwreck about to occur, I feel obligated to comment on it in advance instead of waiting to play Monday morning quarterback. The reason that the recession appears to be so deep is government policies that have encouraged runaway consumer debt.

 

Obama's announced plans will result in deepening private and public debt. Such policies may get a politicians through an election but somebody will pay the price eventually and I really do not want to be in that group.

 

There isn't a politician alive right now that would be recommending anything other than deepening public debt right now, as well as intelligently extending credit to the private side. Again, it's fair to debate at what level is required to remove us from this recession. I've seen enough of your posts to know you are extremely informed and intelligent about political/economic matters, but you need to remove your "anti-Obama" blinders (I own a pair myself ) for just a moment because you know full well McCain would be recommending some substantial stimulus spending himself right now.

You start putting the country in a "saving mode" and we'll all know firsthand what the Great Depression was all about. That is why interest rates are so low - to discourage saving and get money flowing through the economy again. Obviously there needs to some better scrutinizing by the banks as to whom they offer credit, but extending credit to the proper people/businesses is absolutely critical to remove us from the mess we're in,

 

Not sure but my understanding is that from the 50's through about 2000, this country did not spend more than it made. For the past 5-10 years this country consumerwise has spent more than we make.

 

Did we suffer a great depression in the 50 some years during that span?

 

And I am not talking about saving 10% of our income. My point is that this country CONSUMERWISE (not government) has been spending about 105% of the income we make. You really think it is a positive that we spend $1.05 for every $1.00 we make.

 

At some point, we can't pay what we owe. And that is the point we are at. Consumers cannot pay for the furniture they bought and start payments in a year, the 72-month, $15,000 car loan they have and now 3 years into it the car is broken down and they can't sell it, the $250,000 home on a combined $60,000 annual income.

There isn't a politician alive right now that would be recommending anything other than deepening public debt right now, as well as intelligently extending credit to the private side. Again, it's fair to debate at what level is required to remove us from this recession. I've seen enough of your posts to know you are extremely informed and intelligent about political/economic matters, but you need to remove your "anti-Obama" blinders (I own a pair myself ) for just a moment because you know full well McCain would be recommending some substantial stimulus spending himself right now.

If you are familiar with my posts, then you know that I am no McCain fan either. While I support George W. Bush's efforts to fight Islamic terrorists, including those in Iraq, I have never supported his outrageous domestic spending initiatives. I think that he allowed Paulson to incite panic that resulted in a poorly planned and executed series of bailouts.

 

The very people who have been arguing that the Iraq War will bankrupt this country seem to have no problem with the $600 billion to $1 trillion stimulus plan being floated. This has nothing to do with my intense mistrust of Obama. I have equal contempt for the Republicans who are jumping on this bandwagon and abandoning whatever remnants of core principles that they had.

Not sure but my understanding is that from the 50's through about 2000, this country did not spend more than it made. For the past 5-10 years this country consumerwise has spent more than we make.

 

Did we suffer a great depression in the 50 some years during that span?

 

And I am not talking about saving 10% of our income. My point is that this country CONSUMERWISE (not government) has been spending about 105% of the income we make. You really think it is a positive that we spend $1.05 for every $1.00 we make.

 

At some point, we can't pay what we owe. And that is the point we are at. Consumers cannot pay for the furniture they bought and start payments in a year, the 72-month, $15,000 car loan they have and now 3 years into it the car is broken down and they can't sell it, the $250,000 home on a combined $60,000 annual income.

 

The problem was not that there was credit being issued, but that it was being issued to unqualified people. You ever personally defaulted on a loan or credit card (I'm guessing/hoping not since my scenario requires this )? You were a good risk. Extending credit to you was the right and smart thing to do for that business/bank and the economy as a whole. Same applies to me. The problem arose when credit was issued to people who simply had no business being offered credit. When rough times hit, these people defaulted on loans they shouldn't have even had. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Credit, in and of itself, is not a terrible thing. Far from it. It's a good thing when used properly. My guess is that you're sitting in a nice house right now reading this brilliant prose I typed because you were properly offered credit.

If you are familiar with my posts, then you know that I am no McCain fan either. While I support George W. Bush's efforts to fight Islamic terrorists, including those in Iraq, I have never supported his outrageous domestic spending initiatives. I think that he allowed Paulson to incite panic that resulted in a poorly planned and executed series of bailouts.

 

The very people who have been arguing that the Iraq War will bankrupt this country seem to have no problem with the $600 billion to $1 trillion stimulus plan being floated. This has nothing to do with my intense mistrust of Obama. I have equal contempt for the Republicans who are jumping on this bandwagon and abandoning whatever remnants of core principles that they had.

 

Off topic, but I'll take a "wild" guess you voted for McCain. Thus my comment referencing him.

 

This economy is not just going to suddenly fix itself. It's a nice thought, but it ain't gonna happen. If you don't think some kind of stimulus package is not the right answer, suggest to me a viable alternative.

The problem was not that there was credit being issued, but that it was being issued to unqualified people. You ever personally defaulted on a loan or credit card (I'm guessing/hoping not since my scenario requires this )? You were a good risk. Extending credit to you was the right and smart thing to do for that business/bank and the economy as a whole. Same applies to me. The problem arose when credit was issued to people who simply had no business being offered credit. When rough times hit, these people defaulted on loans they shouldn't have even had. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Credit, in and of itself, is not a terrible thing. Far from it. It's a good thing when used properly. My guess is that you're sitting in a nice house right now reading this brilliant prose I typed because you were properly offered credit.

 

That I poorly used and lived on means that I could not afford. I am now going through a Dave Ramsey process to get it back under control. Too many years my spending exceeded my income and a household, a government or a country will not stay economically solvent if they continue on that path for too many years.

That I poorly used and lived on means that I could not afford. I am now going through a Dave Ramsey process to get it back under control. Too many years my spending exceeded my income and a household, a government or a country will not stay economically solvent if they continue on that path for too many years.

 

Well, I probably shouldn't have been asking personal questions anyways. My apologies. The Ramsey course is a good one. Good people sometimes run into credit problems. That is not what caused this mess. The problem was that too much credit was being offered to the wrong people from the get-go.

I think the economy is worse than they say. I have tried to find employment for over a year and have failed. I own a small house that I do whatever I can to try and pay for every month. I own two cars that are over 7 years old with over 150,000 miles on them that barely run and I have to put gas in them with a credit card. So I guess what I am trying to say is that if the economy is not that bad then why am I struggling to survive?????

Well, I probably shouldn't have been asking personal questions anyways. My apologies. The Ramsey course is a good one. Good people sometimes run into credit problems. That is not what caused this mess. The problem was that too much credit was being offered to the wrong people from the get-go.

 

And too many people who were good credit risks, I was and will pay mine off but am tired of owing and owing and owing, got suckered into thinking they needed more and more and more stuff to live what was being sold to them as things that would make their life better and better and better.

 

And it eventually got to a point that they were working for money to pay off the credit they had instead of having their money work for them. To paraphrase a Dave Ramsey line.

I think the economy is worse than they say. I have tried to find employment for over a year and have failed. I own a small house that I do whatever I can to try and pay for every month. I own two cars that are over 7 years old with over 150,000 miles on them that barely run and I have to put gas in them with a credit card. So I guess what I am trying to say is that if the economy is not that bad then why am I struggling to survive?????

 

It IS that bad. There are a lot of people commiserating with you. But it WILL turn around. Best of luck to you. :thumb: