So slavery wasn't bad?

So not allowing minorities or women wasn't bad?

 

What do you mean? I did not say that EVERYTHING IS BAD. I said that Slavery wasnt a right until it was added as an amendment. do you disagree?

 

Everything from the past is not bad but everything from the past is not wrong. If one thing is bad, then couldnt that be changed? or am I being to liberal to thing that bad things should be changed. If i'm wrong to think that we should have slavery & that women shouldnt vote, then I'll just have to be wrong.

It's simply an apples to oranges comparison. Just because they came from the same fruit basket (time period) doesn't mean since one is bad, so is the other.

 

I agree that bad things should be changed, but your argument starts with the assumption that the healthcare system is bad and any change would be better. I would argue that its not broke, but we can do better. The healthcare problem is more than just covering more people. Its also what it should cover, when and how. Too many people believe that all health care should be covered for free regardless of cost or procedure. That's unreasonable. A minimal amount of coverage should be determined for everyone. But at some point, we have to realize that complete healthcare can't be made available to everyone.

A little word about profits. Below are the profit margins for a few industries and companies:

 

Microsoft 29% (Bill Gates)

P&G 14%

Oil 14%

Berkshire Hathaway 12% (Warren Buffet)

Exxon Mobil 10%

Healthcare Plans 5%

Hospitals 2%

It's simply an apples to oranges comparison. Just because they came from the same fruit basket (time period) doesn't mean since one is bad, so is the other.

 

I agree that bad things should be changed, but your argument starts with the assumption that the healthcare system is bad and any change would be better. I would argue that its not broke, but we can do better. The healthcare problem is more than just covering more people. Its also what it should cover, when and how. Too many people believe that all health care should be covered for free regardless of cost or procedure. That's unreasonable. A minimal amount of coverage should be determined for everyone. But at some point, we have to realize that complete healthcare can't be made available to everyone.

 

I have stated this from the start. I do not support mandated healthcare. I do support the fact that we should work to make healthcare affordable for everyone. Do you disagree? While we may not be able to cover everyone, we need to work to make it that, "if you want insurance, then you should be able to buy it." Instead of, "if you don't have insurance, then you are a bum that didnt work in school so your paying the price now."

Simple economics. Supply and demand. If you do not like $3 gasoline, seek alternatives.

 

By the way what level of profit is "okay" for you?

 

Socialism is great in theory but stinks in application.

 

This is a traditional Republican argument. seek alternatives?? hmm how about I invest my $100 million that I have saved in lets say ethanol or bio-diesel. The only business that invest in these are OIL companies so that they can still make profits when we switch. Do you trust oil companies to make alternatives?

 

What about the other part of my post:

Do you think that breaking up monopolies on telephone & railroads were a step towards socialism? If so, were those bad steps?

This is a traditional Republican argument. seek alternatives?? hmm how about I invest my $100 million that I have saved in lets say ethanol or bio-diesel. The only business that invest in these are OIL companies so that they can still make profits when we switch. Do you trust oil companies to make alternatives?

 

What about the other part of my post:

Do you think that breaking up monopolies on telephone & railroads were a step towards socialism? If so, were those bad steps?

 

I would say it is not a republican argument, it is a free market argument. My seek alternatives comment is more in relation to personal behavior. Most of the time if I feel something is too expensive, I stop buying it. Or I only buy what I need. Look for alternative transportation. Look for better fuel economy. My vehicle has a 17 gallon fuel tank and I get close to 40mpg and it seats 5 comfortably(650 miles per fillup). The cost of fuel is based on supply and demand.

I would say it is not a republican argument, it is a free market argument. My seek alternatives comment is more in relation to personal behavior. Most of the time if I feel something is too expensive, I stop buying it. Or I only buy what I need. Look for alternative transportation. Look for better fuel economy. My vehicle has a 17 gallon fuel tank and I get close to 40mpg and it seats 5 comfortably(650 miles per fillup). The cost of fuel is based on supply and demand.

 

I do have a response but first would you please obligue me to answer my question that I have asked twice. This makes 3 times:

 

If you support free markets, then what do you think of monopolies? Since in a true free market anything goes. Since the gov't stepped in & broke them up, was this a step toward socialism? If so, was this a bad move for the gov't?

So, while gasoline & oil is at an ALL TIME high. Oil companies are making their highest profits. I assume this is okay, as well?? Do you like paying over $3 per gallon for gas while companies are making billions of dollars.

 

In this same instance you must also support MONOPOLIES and oppose anit-trust laws. Well in a capitalistic country & free markets is it okay for monopolies. So, when we establish anti-trust laws those were steps towards socialism. In your responses I am going to assume that you do not like anti-trust laws & unions. As our history has shown, IF A COMPANY can do what it wants, it will pay low and provide unsafe condition for the bottom line ($$)

 

To get on topic, Gov't oversight has been necessary & is necessary so business do not harm the citizens. Do you disagree that companies provided unsafe meats & food, allowed children to work, provided unsafe conditions & injuries before workmans comp or disability, they had monopolies on railroads, phones, etc. How were these problems fixed?? I'm sure the Rockefellers would have gladly limited profits to provide these things, if they were asked. but I, personally as a realist, would not. would you?

 

Why wouldn't it be alright for them to make high profits? If I invest in a company I want it to make a profit. If companies don't make a profit they will disappear. I do support monopolies (both the real-life and the parker brothers version) I also support a free market economy.

 

I do not support unions. If companies pay too low, a free market will allow employees to leave and therefore require them to raise their pay. Same thing with unsafe conditions.

Why wouldn't it be alright for them to make high profits? If I invest in a company I want it to make a profit. If companies don't make a profit they will disappear. I do support monopolies (both the real-life and the parker brothers version) I also support a free market economy.

 

I am also against unions. If companies pay too low, a free market will allow employees to leave and therefore require them to raise their pay. Same thing with unsafe conditions.

 

if your employer provides healthcare and pension then please don't accept them b/c unions fought for that. If you have safe working conditions and are paid a living wage, well.....I think you get my point.

I do have a response but first would you please obligue me to answer my question that I have asked twice. This makes 3 times:

 

If you support free markets, then what do you think of monopolies? Since in a true free market anything goes. Since the gov't stepped in & broke them up, was this a step toward socialism? If so, was this a bad move for the gov't?

 

I will answer this question. I think monopolies are fine.

 

When a government steps in on private industry, it is a step towards socialism. No question about that.

 

Yes it is bad move for the government because it is a move towards socialism.

if your employer provides healthcare and pension then please don't accept them b/c unions fought for that. If you have safe working conditions and are paid a living wage, well.....I think you get my point.

 

I don't get your point. could you elaborate please?

 

Thanks,

if your employer provides healthcare and pension then please don't accept them b/c unions fought for that. If you have safe working conditions and are paid a living wage, well.....I think you get my point.

 

 

Also, do you feel it is wrong for companies to make high profits?

There is nothing wrong with companies making high profits but if it is at the expense of society then it needs to be regulated. Corporations left to their own devices have no interest in healthy well-paid workers or a good environment. Governments bust up monopolies to make sure that competition happens and a corporation doesn't gain too much power. Unions basically fought for everything we expect in the workplace like safety, healthcare, living wages, retirement. Without unions (what you would call socialists) we wouldn't have any of that.

because of oil companies & the price of gas, I have in the past 6 months. sold my car and bought 3 horses. I ride those horses to work every day but rotate them so they dont get tired.

 

I'm sure you probably dont believe that but will question me. BUT you do not question those HUGE oil companies & say that its supply & demand. How do you know that? How do you not know that they are manipulating a free market?

 

My problem with oil companies & OPEC's manipulation of the oil industry (to quote Ron Paul, oil has went from $27 a barrel to $97 per since the start of the war) is this. GAS prices ONLY harm consumers!! ONLY CONSUMERS!! why???

1. If you own an oil company, you charge more when prices go up.

2. If you are a truck driver & gas goes up, you charge more to haul.

3. If your a business & prices go up b/c of freight rates, you charge more for your good.

4. If your a consumer you pay higher prices to travel to work but dont get paid more.

5. If your a consumer you pay higher prices for grocery, goods, etc but everyone else is making more $$ b/c they can charge more.

There is nothing wrong with companies making high profits but if it is at the expense of society then it needs to be regulated. Corporations left to their own devices have no interest in healthy well-paid workers or a good environment. Governments bust up monopolies to make sure that competition happens and a corporation doesn't gain too much power. Unions basically fought for everything we expect in the workplace like safety, healthcare, living wages, retirement. Without unions (what you would call socialists) we wouldn't have any of that.

 

Thank you for elaborating.

 

Where do you draw the line on high profits but not "at the expense of society"?

 

I think several non-union corporations have an interest in well-paid workers and a good environment. Just talk to someone who works at TMMK in Georgetown. They manage to do this without a union. They also offer health care and pension opportunities and a very good wage. Once again without unions.

 

The breaking up of monopolies does not "ensure that competition happens" it is the exact opposite of competition. If a company has a monopoly then others need to be more creative in ways to compete with them. Breaking up monopolies destroys competition.

 

I don't thing members of unions are socialists. Probably most just want to be part of a group and feel like they have a voice.

 

Just my opinion.

I will answer this question. I think monopolies are fine.

 

When a government steps in on private industry, it is a step towards socialism. No question about that.

 

Yes it is bad move for the government because it is a move towards socialism.

 

So, it is okay for a company to control all telephone and railroads? It is okay for those to be unregulated & charge what they want b/c there is NO competition & no gov't oversight.

 

You are living in a fantasy world were business will look out for consumers!!

 

How many truly free markets do you know of??