Robert Gates' Confirmation Hearings

[Frances Bavier]

... Dare I use the term flipflopper?

 

Dare, dare.

 

While you're at it, might I mention the irony of this administration even considering taking a "cut and run" approach.

 

 

Frances

[Booge]

Rush Limbaugh used to say that the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. He doesn't say that any more because the President he is carrying water for has given the overstretched military a much different mission (i.e. trying to police a failed state in a civil war). In 2000, while he was campaigning, W told us no nationbuilding. Why are we now trying to nationbuild? Dare I use the term flipflopper?

 

Bash a conservative and offer no ideas or solutions...dare I use the term typical...

[Booge]

As a Democrat, I disagree. I think that if we wanted to, we could easily whip the entire nation of Iraq with one aircraft carrier tied behind our back. Why don't we? Oh yeah - in November, we said that we don't want to.

 

On the other hand, wiping out half of the civilian population of Iraq doesn't seem like it would garner us much goodwill in todays world. In all honesty, I think even W realizes this. Without question, he has had three years to do as he wishes, with virtually no checks. If he had wanted to conquer Iraq, he could have done so. This tells me that even W realized that the cost of doing so was too high. Unfortunately, his ego wouldn't (and apparently, still won't) allow him to admit that he had his head in his backside when he decided to invade a sovereign nation without provocation.

 

At this point, not only has the rest of the world told him he's wrong, the people of this country have told him he's wrong, a bipartisan committee has told him he is wrong, it would appear that even Rumsfeld was trying to tell him he's wrong.

 

I'm not sure when, but I'm hoping that before too long, this highly educated, successful businessman will look around and see that he's the only one still thumping on the drums of war.

 

 

Frances

 

Not disagreeing with your post, but it would help if you shared your vision of what should be done in Iraq, and what you think the purpose of our military is...instead of simply bashing the President and Commander in Chief...(which is typical)

[Booge]

Another stunning oversimplification of the situation. Do you think the 71% of Americans who now oppose Bush's handling of Iraq believe that interceding in the sectarian savagery is a legitimate justification for further American bloodshed?

 

It's time for an end to the simplistic, naive foreign policy views that got us bogged down in Iraq in the first place. If Bush and his handlers had had a 10% awareness of the complex realities of Iraq and the Middle East, he never would have been foolish enough to start this war.

 

Another stunning attack on the administration with no solutions from you...If you are going to govern by the polls, you don't need a president, or Congress...just have a poll online where the public can decide what to do... Looking forward to reading the first post from you where you have an idea on how to solve a problem...:thumb:

[H]

Bash a conservative and offer no ideas or solutions...dare I use the term typical...

 

Bush is most certainly NOT a conservative (running up immense deficits, enacting protectionist trade policies to aid big steel, and failing to enforce immigration law) and therefore, by virtue of his unquestioning devotion, neither is Limbaugh. Try again.

[Booge]

Bush is most certainly NOT a conservative (running up immense deficits, enacting protectionist trade policies to aid big steel, and failing to enforce immigration law) and therefore, by virtue of his unquestioning devotion, neither is Limbaugh. Try again.

 

I was talking about Limbaugh...but Bush is a much more conservative than the most conservative of liberals...

 

Still waiting for an idea that will never come...try again

[H]

Another stunning attack on the administration with no solutions from you...If you are going to govern by the polls, you don't need a president, or Congress...just have a poll online where the public can decide what to do... Looking forward to reading the first post from you where you have an idea on how to solve a problem...:thumb:

 

Expecting someone else to step in and fix Iraq after 3 years of Bush's incompetence is a little like expecting a new driver to be able to prevent the bus from crashing after it's already gone off the cliff...

[Booge]

Another stunning oversimplification of the situation. Do you think the 71% of Americans who now oppose Bush's handling of Iraq believe that interceding in the sectarian savagery is a legitimate justification for further American bloodshed?

 

It's time for an end to the simplistic, naive foreign policy views that got us bogged down in Iraq in the first place. If Bush and his handlers had had a 10% awareness of the complex realities of Iraq and the Middle East, he never would have been foolish enough to start this war.

 

Then if the Dems would have had more than a 0% awareness of the complex realities of Iraq and the Middle East, they never would have supported the decision to go to war...:sssh:

 

Oh yeah, they were duped, lol...:sleep:

 

Only stupid people without any knowledge of the facts allow themselves to be duped.:cry:

[H]

I was talking about Limbaugh...but Bush is a much more conservative than the most conservative of liberals...

 

Still waiting for an idea that will never come...try again

 

I'd start by looking at the recommendations from the Iraq Study Group. Of course, the mess W has made is so bad that even the most brilliant minds in the world may not be able to come up with an outcome other than well-managed defeat. Like my Grandmother used to say, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."

[Booge]

Expecting someone else to step in and fix Iraq after 3 years of Bush's incompetence is a little like expecting a new driver to be able to prevent the bus from crashing after it's already gone off the cliff...

 

I have more faith in the new driver than the Dems. The new driver would try to help, not whine and complain about the situation and call it hopeless...No ideas to relate??? Still waiting...

[Frances Bavier]

Not disagreeing with your post, but it would help if you shared your vision of what should be done in Iraq, and what you think the purpose of our military is...instead of simply bashing the President and Commander in Chief...(which is typical)

 

If you're asking for my vision, I'll share it. Personally, I would move our troops completely outside of the Sunni Triangle, and set up a compound where we could train the Iraqi police and security forces. I would give them one calendar year, and at the end of it, I'd pack our bags and go home.

 

They will have to decide which they value more - peace or power. Whatever choice they make, I wish them the best, but I am unwilling to sacrifice even one more American soldier in the fruitless pursuit of giving them something that they (speaking in the collective) clearly do not value as much as we do.

 

I don't care if anyone calls that plan "cut and run", "stay and play", "shoot and scoot", or "flow and go". The rhetoric of politicians will not change my view of the inevitability of the outcome of the civil war that we have set in motion.

 

 

 

Frances

[Booge]

If you're asking for my vision, I'll share it. Personally, I would move our troops completely outside of the Sunni Triangle, and set up a compound where we could train the Iraqi police and security forces. I would give them one calendar year, and at the end of it, I'd pack our bags and go home.

 

They will have to decide which they value more - peace or power. Whatever choice they make, I wish them the best, but I am unwilling to sacrifice even one more American soldier in the fruitless pursuit of giving them something that they (speaking in the collective) clearly do not value as much as we do.

 

I don't care if anyone calls that plan "cut and run", "stay and play", "shoot and scoot", or "flow and go". The rhetoric of politicians will not change my view of the inevitability of the outcome of the civil war that we have set in motion.

 

 

 

Frances

 

 

If you put a deadline of one year on it, you are telling the enemy all they need to know, that you concede defeat. If that is your plan, you might as well pull out today...

[H]

If you put a deadline of one year on it, you are telling the enemy all they need to know, that you concede defeat. If that is your plan, you might as well pull out today...

 

No, you are telling the Iraqis that they don't have an unlimited amount of time (or American patience) to get their act together. I guess, in your view, we should stay in Iraq indefinitely, allowing the soldiers and Marines in our volunteer military to continue getting picked off like ducks in a shooting gallery, while we write cold checks to pay the bills. I think it was Einstein that said one definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing, but expecting different results.

[Habib]

If we are going to pull out of the Sunni Triangle we might as well pull out altogether. I think winning in Iraq starts with winning over Muslim leaders who will advocate Democracy.

[Booge]

No, you are telling the Iraqis that they don't have an unlimited amount of time (or American patience) to get their act together. I guess, in your view, we should stay in Iraq indefinitely, allowing the soldiers and Marines in our volunteer military to continue getting picked off like ducks in a shooting gallery. I think it was Einstein that said one definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing, but expecting different results.

 

Where did I say they should have an unlimited amount of time? How is not putting a one year deadline on it giving them an unlimited amount of time?