Isn't that like the parent saying "I don't want you having sex but if you do make sure....?" " I don't want you drinking but if you do make sure you spend the night?"

 

You're a parent. What do you think most kids hear ?

 

Dude...I'm Catholic. You're asking someone who was pregnant when she got married whether she listens to the Pope? :lol:

Dude...I'm Catholic. You're asking someone who was pregnant when she got married whether she listens to the Pope? :lol:

 

I read it as saying there are times when the life of the person involved trumps Church doctrine. Agreed?

I read it as saying there are times when the life of the person involved trumps Church doctrine. Agreed?

 

Not agreed in a strict sense. He still makes clear that the church does not approve or feel it is a moral choice to use condoms for any purpose. He does acknowledge that the use of condoms can have a value from the perspective of public health, and as such as dropped the ban on them for that purpose.. He has not wavered from his advocacy of abstinence as the moral choice of the Catholic faith.

Not agreed in a strict sense. He still makes clear that the church does not approve or feel it is a moral choice to use condoms for any purpose. He does acknowledge that the use of condoms can have a value from the perspective of public health, and as such as dropped the ban on them for that purpose.. He has not wavered from his advocacy of abstinence as the moral choice of the Catholic faith.

 

What if condoms lead to less abortions? Seems like a good exception, right?

What if condoms lead to less abortions? Seems like a good exception, right?

 

I get your point. But in terms of birth control, the message is clear: "Abstinence".

I get your point. But in terms of birth control, the message is clear: "Abstinence".

 

I know what the message is but this exception leads to a lot of possibilities that are hard to say no to now.

 

The rationale for trying to prevent "serious issue A" should be the same for preventing "serious issue B."

I know what the message is but this exception leads to a lot of possibilities that are hard to say no to now.

 

The rationale for trying to prevent "serious issue A" should be the same for preventing "serious issue B."

 

Ahhh...the joys of being Catholic. This is only one of the many conundrums of being one of the faithful.

40,000 foot view of his true meaning?

 

I'll do my best.

 

First, it's important to remember that Pope Benedict was working from within the framework of a specific moral situation: a prostitute with HIV. I'll try to keep this examination within that framework.

 

The Catholic Church rejects the notion that good can come from sin. It's somewhere in Romans, but I don't recall where. In any circumstance, there are two sins involved here. If the prostitute does not wear a condom then there is the fornicative act itself in addition to the fifth commandment due to having sexual congress with someone while carrying a deadly disease. If the prostitute does wear a condom, then there is the fornicative act with the violation of the prohibition on contraception.

 

BUT the Catholic Church rejects the doctrine of "lesser evil." Even though the act of wearing a condom is certainly less harmful to both people than the transmission of a deadly disease, a less-harmful sin is a sin nonetheless and cannot be said to be licit.

 

As the pope himself said: the act of wearing a condom cannot be said to be a "real or moral solution." The act of wearing a condom is not licit, but as the pope has said, it may be an indication of the first steps toward respecting the dignity of human life in that it shows concern for another's well-being. There is as much philosophy and psychology at work in the pope's discussion here as true theology. To be certain, the Catholic Church's position remains that the only morally licit situation here is to abstain from the fornicative act entirely.

 

--It was an interesting premise for a discussion on moral theology -- and a very good one from the former dogmatic theology professor. But it's not the sort of thing that's very helpful or even advisable in a worldwide public setting due to the amount of confusion that results from dealing with this sort of hypothetical. In the end, nothing's changed with regard to the Catholic Church's position, so this was much ado about very little.