oldschoolwrestler

Jefferson Co. School district have went out on a limb before. Years ago when discussion of re-districting wrestling they claimed if any of their teams were forced to compete in another district all their schools would drop their programs.

IMO This argument has gotten to the point where it is Jefferson Co. school against Private schools.

Because the people of America(though a representive government) have voiced that some education is needed for all people. You have the choice to pick the setting but some education is a must.

This was a rebutle on Blitz post

Also, Professor, moving this to 7th grade seems unAmerican regarding a family having the choice of high schools to attend when several schools are only 9-12 schools. Of course, anyone believing that ownership status exists by the local public school would not buy into the American way of freedom of choice, so it would be a moot point for them. If that is someone's belief then they have to apply that standard to the public schools as well as the privates and eliminate anyone paying tuition to attend Pikeville HS or Morgan Co. or Danville or Somerset, etc., if that student is "out of district".

Sounds to me like the school that lost their students wasn't getting it done or else the students parents wouldn't have sent them to the neighboring school district. Don't pull down the strong to prop up the weak. If you don't want brain drain, you improve your situation so the brains don't want to leave. That's just as true in education as it is in business. Putting regulations in place to stop brain drain doesn't work.?

one of my reasons to get rid of compulsory education.

Sounds to me the Super of the school losing students has some work to do; motivating the teachers, coaches and administrators to do a better job and to turn out a better product; and to meet regularly with the parents to show them how the school is improving and why they should keep their kids in the school district. How often do you think that happens in the districts losing students to the non public schools or neighboring public school districts?

Very often many of these schools are inner city schools and they have numerous programs that have parents meeting every week to imporve their school. Meetings every week, with thier children, to imporve the relationship between the school, parents, and students.

I'm not sure about rural schools maybe LBBC can help on this one.

Home-Schooling is legal.

Why must we prove we are doing this? If we have freedom of choice.

I can understand a some of your points in support of Prop 20, but saying that the public schools have a mission to only educate kids within the district and should not accept out of district students is not understandable at all to me. And I get paid to try to understand both sides of issues.

Very easy to understand strong communities have strong educational systems. If a school depletes another school community of thier leaders in the classroom, who will provide the positive peer pressure in the classroom.

The reason I ask is that many private schools have no selection process, just as you say that Pikeville doesn't. Most private schools only have a test to determine whether your academic abilities place you in honors courses or not, not whether you are eligible to attend or not.

They don't have to take the discipline problems. I'm sure if the students had a discipline sheet 10 pages long the private school would not take them. (not a bad thing, but true)

American way of freedom of choice.

Then why don't we have the choice of not sending children to school.

Oldschool you are making just a few assumptions. Check your comments. A great deal of the circumstance problems do not have a mom AND a dad. Second, do you really wish to empower minor age children, succumb to the ignorance of do not care, trash parent(s) and allow such to totally, not only eject from education but ultimately eject from society. Fast forward a generation and you will truly have a class society and a major set of problems. Please note, many immigrants come to this country leaving a class society. Be careful to set the tone to create one.

You are correct the next generation will have major problems. But the generation after that will prosper. I am not saying that education should not be free and offered to everyone. I'm saying that compulsory education (forcing children to attend school, is outdated). I teach at an alternative school, here over 60% of the students are just waiting until their 16th b-day to drop out, and most of their parents, probably 90% of that group, tell us they are just waiting for their child to turn 16, It's our problem not theirs.

I'm a strong supporter of public education, but I would love to be able to go into a classroom and have little to no discipline problems, (or at least when there is one the parents respond or actually care) and be able to actually teach children. If it were not for the pay and percieved social class I may enjoy teaching at a private school.

There have been plenty of the word being used against private schools in the past month on here.

but it was not directed toward any school directly (no names of schools). If they did then this would be in violation, unless KHSAA has already investigated and ruled on the decisions.

You are correct. But here is the macro risk we run as a society if we travel down this road: We will lose the one MAJOR and SIGNIFICANT world advantage we have in education and that is having the most and best educated population, by far, in the world.

 

Those of us who value education understand the need for it. The real question comes from how to create the motivation for others who currently reject it, come to embrace it. Many public schools are trying to find the answer to this and I wish to add, not getting any credit for trying to do it.

I have mentioned this in many of my posts. Compulsory education has outlived its usefulness.

I do not think this is true SS. If we rid our schools of those who do not want to be educated, the students that are left will be better off.

If those students are forced to stay home and mommy and daddy must keep an eye on them. They (the parents) may take a bigger interest in their child’s education, just to get them out of trouble on the streets.

The second thing that may happen is that those who were not able to get an education may value it when they get older and have children. They will realize that it was harder for them to succeed without and education and they will want their children to fair better than themselves (Human Nature).

Therefore, they will send their children to school and put a greater emphasis on their child’s education.

Yes, we may loose a little across the board but in the long run 20-30 years from now we will have an even greater advantage worldwide in education.

I'm confused here , why are you dancing around the quesiton.

 

I asked what would be the difference in a kid transfering public to private playing right away , than private to public. Both players I listed eariler were on varsity schools elsewhere in the region and transfered to Holmes and were major parts in the schools regional title. Without them they don't even make it out of districts last year.

Oopps sorry, didn't read the question correctly then. There is no difference, I believe that both would be ineligable, or should be. Unless they physically moved into a new district, with a "good faith" move. If not they should "I believe" sit out one year. Isn't that why the Highlands boy was ineligable?

I don't see how that would be different for them leaving a public and going to a private. I'm not mad that they did it, but I don't like the double standard.

The difference is that going to school is mandatory, they must attend school, its the law. Therefor if they cannot or choose not to pay for thier education they must attend the school that they live in.

Once again compulsary education is the culprit here.

I can't believe that anyone would even mention $350.00 per kid per YEAR. I'd be embarrassed. Try paying nearly $8,000.00 in tuition plus more than $350.00 in books.

 

Are you telling us that if you had to pay more than $350. you would be more interested in your kid's education? That's a heck of an admission.

That was a tongue in cheek comment. (I had the smilly with the tongue sticking out)

The amount of money I spend does not affect my attitude toward my own childrens education. There are many parents who don't care (I see more than my share in the schools), and they may be more apt to make sure their child is not a behavior problem and stays in class and school, if they had to pay for their education.

As for paying $8,000.00 I can't imagine it, I won't pay that much for a car . My wife and I would need to get two more side jobs on top of the ones we already have. (Thats almost 1/4 of our total income). Especially, IMO, when I can get an equal or better education much cheaper.

Which is more of an advantage?

Partial Tuition paid (some kids at Private Schools) - or -

Full Tuition paid (all kids at Public Schools)

(plus transportation, etc.)

Free education? Hmm Why did it cost me almost $700 for my two children to attend a public elementary school (class fees, and a four page list of materials they needed)

The way I see it the partial paid tuition is an advantage.

Since they are forced to pay at least some of the cost the parent/guardian has some investment in the child’s education and puts effort into the education of their child.

quoted this exact following statement:

 

"The public schools, for such lunacy, have no tradition and no pride and they have dumbed down the curriculum………….so why stop there? If you can’t compete in the classroom or the playing field, change the rules and you won’t have to compete. Just instill mediocrity. But at least the teachers and administrators won’t have to do anything except draw a paycheck paid by our tax money."

My guess this is a new educator or one who has been in education no long and bitter. I know that my freinds and family tell me I'm a fool to continue to work for my paycheek. They tell me their glad it is me and not them doing my job.

I'm not sure which is more insulting; this supposed educator actually saying it or it being repeated in this site.

If I ever get this way I will quit teaching, because I will be of no use to my students.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Get rid of compulsory education. This would solve all our problems. Make the schools responsible for recruiting their own kids and raising money to pay teachers. Have everyone pay for their education, or earn government scolarships.

I think that all Private School supporters should decided to stop giving money to the public school scholarship fund, which by the way also goes to athletes.

 

If you are having trouble figuring it out, We should not have to pay the percentage of our State Tax that goes to Education. It is obviously not being spent properly, look at the quality of our Public Schools, so they shouldn’t miss our donations.

Hmm I want my U.S. tax dollars returned also becuase they are going to spend it in New Orleans, who didn't spend their tax dollars well either.

I also want it back becuase the welfare system is in shambles ect. ect. ect.

Well then let's have a separate class for Baptists. Let's have a separate class for the middle class. Let's have a separate class for the poor. They are already trying to set up a class for Know Nothings.

 

I am not an attorney, but let's look at what I see as the basis for a law suit.

 

1. The KHSAA is an agent of state government. The courts have already ruled on this in an open records case. This places a much higher burden on the KHSAA than state associations that are voluntary associations to avoid discriminatory practices.

 

2. The KHSAA has passed a rule that says that member schools cannot play against schools that are not members of their state organisations. Therefore membership in the KHSAA is required in order to participate in high school athletics in Kentuucky.

 

3. The separation of the KHSAA into private and public divisions is arbitrary, discriminatory and without logical basis. The vast majority of the private schools have demonstrated NO athletic advantage, yet these schools are segregated into a separate category.

 

4. Public schools that have demonstrated high athletic achievement and which have most, if not all, of the private school advantages are not being segregated into a separate category. Thus the division is arbitrary.

 

5. The private school playoffs will consist of fewer rounds of competition than the public school playoffs, thus depriving the private schools of the opportunity to earn much needed revenue and causing irreparable harm.

 

6. The private schools that are being segregated into a separate class are primarily faith based institutions. The segregation is an effort on the part of public school administrators to discriminate against faith based instituions.

 

These are just a few things off the top of my head.

 

Anyone else care to add?

My only response to legality is that Tenn. has done it and are still doing it. It must pass the legality issue, i'm sure it has been taken to court already.

Only the BC district in NKY has lines. Every other district has open enrollment.

I think we need a definition of open enrollment. Open enrollment to me means you can decline anyone you want and except anyone you want.

This definition does not apply to any public schools.

Kenton only has limited open enrollment between thier 3 high schools.

Beechwood must except those inside thier district lines, and will accept others (from what I hear)

Highlands: See above.

Campbell does not have open enrollment.

I also think that those that accept out of district students they must have an agreement with the school they should attend.

That would be true unless you happen to be one of the “less talented” public school athletes that happen to read this thread…

Ooops! :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

j/k oldschool... I just thought we could use a laugh here... :lol:

true dat, in todays era I wouldn't even make a dent. :cry:

In the stone age we didn't need much talent.

You're obviously from NKY, so I'll pose this question to you. Who do you think has the most "out-of-district" athletes in NKY?

 

First I'm doubtful the 20 mile rule would change squat in NKY, as its not that big--geographicly.

 

Please READ my posts, before taking offense regarding the public school supporter thing. I support a couple of publics, especially in football. Just saying it's silly to punish the entire private school spectrum, due to problems with a few!!

Since publics are the only ones who have districts its obvious.

I'm trying to keep things equal by giving everyone a 20 mile radius. What is good for one is also good for the other. I agree that little will change in Nky with the 20 mile radius.

Why not try this though. If it does not work then we can try and find another resolution. It's the least restrictive and is equal to all.

As I have mentioned, I don't think any of the props are the answer to the problem. I think the first thing we need to agree on is that there is a problem, and then work collectively to solve the problem. We are dealing with extremes right now, and those are definatly not the answers

I personally hope the problems are not expected to be fixed by seperating Public and Private from Post Season play. I dont think that would fix the problems that exist between the two sectors. .

Excellent view. (I didn't want to quote the entire reply)

The line has been drawn in the sand and people have decided to stand on one side or the other.

The basic question is this “Is there a problem?” One side says there is no problem and the other side believes there is a problem. This debate has been bogged down with the poor solutions that we have been presented with.

IMO because we are discussion this proves there is a problem. It’s kind of like deciding if a person is an alcoholic or not. The alcoholic and his friends may say he is not, while others say he is an alcoholic.

I along with other agree that there is a problem, but we also realize that the answers are not the solutions that we have to choose from. (KHSAA propositions)

I think that if we can get over the hump and agree first that there is a problem then we may be able to solve the problem that will be equally expectable to both sides. I’m not talking about a compromise or a lesser of two evils. I’m talking about a real answer to the problem.

Maybe someone needs to learn to coach better?

Should get the award for most generalized insult on BGP :madman:

I'd be ashamed if I was a public school (in this argument) supporter!!

Defininately not ashamed to be a public school supporter. Comparing apples and oranges here. Top to bottom. Tops may be equal but the middle and bottom are nowhere near equal. (I'm speaking of those schools with boundries, I think all schools should have the same 20 mile radius.)

Maybe someone needs to learn to coach better??

The publics already have the best coaches IMO. That is the only reason they can get close to competing with the less talented athletes.

Just realized that this in only football. What about the other sports? I know football is what may have made the debate public, but the minor sports have had the problem for a loooong time.

Just a rebuttal but:

The top 1-3 may be equal. That however does not make a team. My second guess is that many of the top caliber players in private don't play, they are secure enough personally and financially to stop their playing career in high school and just work on their education. (I personally fell into this category and know of several others.)

I always hate this comparison. If that’s the case then UK does not get the top players because other schools have many more NBA players.

I’m with you though lets keep it as is.

Let’s find out in 10-20 how many schools drop their programs. If we ignore the problem maybe it will go away.