scooterbob

As I said above, the committee approach works for the NCAA tournament. It will surely work for the Sweet Sixteen. Of course, the 14th, 15th, and 16th Regions wouldn't fare much better than do Fairfield, Liberty, and Monmouth. The give and take has been relaxing. Good night to all.

AT41, if you want it seeded here (64th District), your argument is weak if you don't want it seeded there (Rupp Arena). Or, are you saying you don't want it seeded here or there? Of course you would seed the Sweet Sixteen just as you seed the NCAA tournament. there would always be a little complaining and homering but it would, in the end produce a much better and more exciting tournament. We don't need Region 11 vs. Region 9 and Region 14 vs. Region 16. If you can't argue for seeding all the way, you have no convincing argument. We do "semi-seed" the regional tournamnets but we should completely seed it also. Again, use an independent committee just as does the NCAA.

Excellent. Since we are making progress, do you think your AD and boosters would support seeding the Sweet Sixteen? Ashland's support of such a plan would obviously carry a lot of weight with KHSAA.

AT41, regardless of who gets the "credit" for breaking the story, I will again state that I firmly support the disassociation. Hopefully, it is now a policy of both schools. Glad you liked the disease reference. Yours is a little wordy.

Neither team deserved to lose.

Seeding? Great idea. Of course, we would need to seed the Sweet Sixteen. Think what that would usually do to the 16th Region. On the other hand, we would see the best teams advance and "clean out" the weak region champions. If seeding is the "manly" thing to do for the districts, surely it is the "manly" thing to do for the state tournament. How can you "seeders" disagree with that? AT41 seems to be suffering from that same "legends in our own mind disease" as does Onetoya. It is only contageous for those who wear maroon.

Onetoya, you are a good man. However, you display one of Ashland's most grating characteristics. You think everyone envies you. Actually, the old adage of being a legend in your own mind really applies to you guys. I am impressed with the basketball tradition of old Ashland High School. However, that doesn't extend to PGB. I can understand why you wouldn't want anyone to know that your eighth grade lost at home by 48 particularly when the implication was that it could have been much worse. We just need to agree to disassociate. Ashland basketball at all levels will benefit from this far more than Rose Hill over the next few years.

Pikeville will be a tough foe for Ashland. They have won 9 and only lost 13. June Buchanan only beat them by 40 points. I will go out on a limb and pick Ashland since the game is at Ashland.

Thoughts: 1. Ashland didn't schedule Rose Hill prior to seeding because Rose Hill offered very little competition. Nothing was to be gained by either team. It was a good policy for both schools. 2. During the years of seeding, Rose Hill was really only competitive (an understatement) during the 2001-2002 and the 2002-2003 seasons. Of course, Ashland preferred to take two forfeits (forfeits have apparently been prominent in this rivalry) for seeding purposes rather than play Rose Hill in the 2002-2003 season. Whether it was principle, as claimed, or fear of defeat, as most believe, is open to interpretation. 3. Rose Hill was not approached about scheduling Ashland this season. Ashland completed its schedule without considering Rose Hill which was its choice. I assume it was because of the "principle" angle. Nonetheless, I doubt Rose Hill would have scheduled Ashland anyway. 4. The "forfeit defense" for not scheduling next season, or thereafter, is transparent at best. It is similar to the "principle defense". However, I firmly agree. I think it is best for the two schools to completely ignore each other except when required by tournament draw or league requirements (middle school) to play. That should apply to all sports. 5. There is no reason to play the freshman championship game. Ashland has already claimed victory and cut down the nets. Their AD and boosters would never allow it. On the other hand, the tainted championship has not come without damage. Rose Hill actually gained by "losing" and I believe most independent observers felt sure Rose Hill would win handily. Therefore, neither would benefit from playing the game. 6. Onetoya makes a plea to "just get along". It is a gallant thought but that isn't going to happen. The mutual distrust runs too deep. To use a common expression, far too many bridges have been burned. The kids from both schools will get along fine. However, that will not extend beyond the students. 7. AT41 has, I suppose, publicly announced Ashland's decision to cut off association. I understand that Rose Hill had already made that decision several days ago. However, it felt no need for a public announcement. As I said, I firmly support the decision and have openly advocated it. 8. The real loser in a mutual pact of disassociation will be BGP. Think how many threads will never see the light of day. Nevertheless, because of the mutual impasse, we will still see derrogatory statements, pointed and veiled, from both camps. It just goes along with the territory.

Blue Blazer, St. Luke was a physician and not a tax collector. The tax collector was St. Paul. If those in charge are really more worried about, among other priorities, maximizing money than they are about what is fair to the kids, maybe we should assume that Judas was an AD (just a little humor of sorts). Kyhoops#23, my point was that you could have gotten around 400 more into the Rose Hill gymnasium last night. Rose Hill's crowd was as big or larger than it would be for a district game this year. Ashland wouldn't bring any more to the first round game than Boyd County brought last night. That would still leave a lot of room for others- including Ashland's pep band. Frances, although the wounded parties didn't actually bring the gun, I would say any wounds were self-inflicted. However, lessons appear to have been learned. Boyd County and Fairview are first rate operations. All in all, they are clearly the two best teams in this county. It is unfortunate that they must face each other in the first round of the district. Nonetheless, one strong element of the rich history of Kentucky high school basketball is the "luck of the draw". I am pleased that it will remain for the foreseeable future in this district. After watching the game, I would say that Bair and Jackson are becoming well known in this area. Of course, Euton already appeared on the radar screen. None had the impact of Owens but, then, they are 8th graders. Owens was a pleasure to watch. He is by far the best player in the district this year. Selby is a strong physical force as is Snyder. A little banging around is part of the game. Both teams, coaches, fans, and schools should be commended. It was a good example of neighbors getting along and displaying some mutual respect. We don't always see that around here.

Actually, Blue Blazer, you are probably wrong again. I would think that most kids would like to play on their own home floor when their schoiol is the host. However, you are certainly correct that Ashland did not want to run the risk of playing Rose Hill on Rose Hill's floor. All Rose Hill really wanted was to be able to host the opening round on its floor. I think that was reasonable. I think that it is reasonable to believe that an Ashland-Rose Hill game crowd could easily have fit into Rose Hill's gymnasium. Historically, Ashland has never brought many fans to games at Rose Hill for middle school or girls games. I don't think the varsity game would have been much different. For example, regardless of what some may post, Stewart Gymnasium was not remotely filled for the Boyd County-Rose Hill game. That is true even though the Garnes memorial ceremony was planned. In fact, a number of people paid to get in and left immediately after the pregame ceremony. If the gymnasium holds 1,050 as many believe, I would estimate that no more than 650, including players and cheerleaders, were present. You may argue that the Boyd County-Fairview game would possibly have required more seating since these are widely recognized as the two best teams in the district. However, Rose Hill was willing to move that game to another site. Actually, the site impasse was settled by KHSAA before the draw. Nonetheless, it was a fine night for Rose Hill and a preview of what is to come the next four years. Coach Fraley deserves success. Many doubted his sanity when he took the job. It appears that there is a definite method to his madness.

Of course you love your home gymnasium, Blue Blazer. Nothing wrong with that. However, I don't think non-Ashlanders find it as intimidating as they probably did at the old Ashland High School gymnasium. Actually, your basketball tradition was built almost entirely on the latter. Also, I hope I didn't confuse you with the facts. That seems to happen sometimes.

Blue Blazer states that "a rule is a rule" which, actually, is misleading. There is no rule. The tournament was moved to Boyd County because the four district teams did not agree on a site. Fairview and Rose Hill voted to have it at Rose Hill. Ashland and Boyd County voted against it. Then, Rose Hill and Fairview voted to have just the first round at Rose Hill. Again, Ashland and Boyd County voted against it. Only then did it become an issue for KHSAA which, of course, chose for monetary purposes. If Ashland and Boyd County did not object, at least the first round would have been at Rose Hill. Stating that the KHSAA required that the tournament not be held at Rose Hill is not quite correct. However, it has been good spin. Blue Blazer takes a poorly veiled shot at Rose Hill's freshman team and its forfeit in his post. Since tonight's win over Boyd County was led by four members of that freshman team (3 8th graders and a 9th grader), I would suggest that he should be pleased with his forfeit. I would also like to ask Blue Blazer to explain where he got those nine state championships. My history books indicate four-1928, 2 in the 1930s, and 1961. I would also think that it is significant to add that none of the championships were won with Ashland playing in that gymnasium. All were while the school was old Ashland High School located on Lexington Avenue. The main "claim to fame" of the present gymnasium is the recollection of many of the time that the floor was so slick that a game had to be stopped. Also, although Larry Conley never played there, Paul Revere and the Raiders and Bo Diddley did so. I'm not being nasty toward Blue Blazer or toward Ashland. I just think that facts help. As for Coach Pratt, his team, and its fans, they were first class in all respects. Owens is a fine player.

Good thoughts and a fine suggestion from Rickyp. We all enjoy athletics and BGP because, in my mind, it is a diversion from the many terrible turns that we endure in life. However, we should never forget that there is a suffocating amount of pain, suffering, and depression around us. Athletics and BGP merely help us escape for a few minutes.

Shippey has suffered some tragic losses. He deserves compassion rather than BGP coverage. Maybe some of you Ashlanders could lend a hand and give some encouragement to one of your own. I feel sure that you don't want to overlook one who helped build the tradition.

What does any of this have to do with Boyd County playing Rose Hill tomorrow night? Where are the moderators when they are needed?

Let's all at least admit the obvious. Ashland did not and does not want to play Rose Hill's regular freshman team. They have the same desire to play Rose Hill's freshman team as do the Kittens to make up their postponed game against the Rose Hill girls. In both cases, it is likely that the players want to play. It is only the administrators, athletic staffs, and boosters who lack the desire. As Ashland's coach responded when asked if the game could be rescheduled, "We'll take the forfeit." Did anyone expect anything else?

Possibly the Rose Hill girls could have played the Ashland freshmen. The girls would have enjoyed cutting down the nets.

Boy, kinglion, I'm actually on your side. I am merely presenting an argument that has been used by others for several years. As a supporter of Rose Hill, I am in the same boat as are you as a Boyd County supporter. I used the word "import" to be kind. Breeden inferred much worse. As to Owens, some have inferred much worse. When Rose Hill had its two good years, Mayo, Dawson, and the others were, and still are, called much worse than "imports". I believe the "R" word was one of the more friendly terms. Don't fuss at me. I'm on your side. Use your indignation on those who have earned it.

I don't think anyone "hates" Owens. I just think that fans in this area are "suspicious" of those whom they deem as "imports". If you will remember, Coach Breeden was publicly vocal as to his feelings of Frank Lee being at Boyd County. And, as we all know, there are other "high profile" examples of unhappy opponents that could be cited. Of course, the level of discontent depends on whose eyes are focusing on the "import"- is he your questionable import" or is he our new, but welcome, "student-athlete".

No apology necessary, Frances. As I think back, I may well have made the statement at one time or the other. I am not suggesting that Christian school advocates, be they Protestant or be they Catholic, should abandon their beliefs and good intentions to lead by example. I am merely suggesting that you get nowhere and you lead no one if you lay down and let others continually run over you. I also agree that, whenever a rule is broken, it needs to be investigated. However, if wrongful acts cannot be directly traced to the enabling acts of a particular school, it should obvious that you can't blame and punish the school. For example, if an Ashland Booster runs a red light and injures Boyd County basketball player, I don't think we can blame your basketball coach- unless, of course, he is driving the car. I appreciate the opportunity to further explain my above post which, most likely, offended our new friend, 70 X 7. Actually, he/she and I probably sing from, at least, similar hymnals even though we probably have some differences of opinion.

As is often the case, Frances has covered the issue well.

Your post in your third paragraph , 70 X 7, is noble and idealistic. However, it is not very realistic. Nonetheless, I appreciate your thoughts. Your moniker, 70 X 7 is good. However, if you deal with the give and take of athletics at any level, you will soon learn that 490 bruised cheeks can be fatal. Please remember, as with most who post, I am merely a fan and not a representative of Rose Hill or of any other school. In other words, my words are mine and don't necessarily represent those of anyone else. I do join in welcoming you to BGP and wish you well. You will enjoy the give and take but only if you give as well as take.

Good point, RedBlood. You do not enhance your stature by degrading your opposition. In fact, although you may get "high fives" at the work place and at the service club and/or booster club meeting, your effect on the general public is the opposite. To cite a much used saying, the result is that many fans have two favorites- their school and whoever is playing Ashland. That really is unfortunate.

Frances, my friend and antagonist, I must respond to a couple of your posts. First, I don't remember stating that the word "Christian" in a school's name means that it should be held to a "very high standard". If I did so somewhere along the line, I retract the statement. This site deals, for the most part, with high school athletics. In that venue, I don't believe a Christian school or any private school should be held to any higher standard than that expected of other schools. The idea that others can attack since they are partisans of a secular school but you cannot respond because you are "not acting in a good Christian manner", as Harry Callihan might say, doesn't get it. Always turning the other cheek, I have learned, only results in two bruised cheeks. Second, I fully agree with what Rickyp stated in his second paragraph. After all of this time, why do the Ashland radio announcers feel compelled to continue making negative and inflammatory public remarks about Rose Hill? I, and many others, hear the remarks. They are, indeed, made and they are made for a purpose. However, they truly prove that Ashlanders were really hurt pridewise by those two big years. Otherwise, why continue to snipe? You, my friend, are in Oldham County. You are not in a position to know what is said. All of that self-proclaimed tradition and that notorious hotline to KHSAA don't equate to honor and respect. Ashland has, I suppose, the former but one may question whether or not it has the latter.