We still have a year in which these war-mongers running the executive branch can still attack Iran so don't put it past them.

 

Even if Iraq had WMD's was it our place to attack them? Saddam was not an idiot and he knew that even if he had WMD's using them would have meant disaster. Saddam didn't have any connections to Al Qaeda and the Al Qaeda in Iraq didn't show up until we were there. This whole "fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" attitude is just another false justification for this illegal war. Iraq was about money. Money for defense contractors, oil companies, and the military-industrial complex. Read the Project for a New American Century's website and it will show you that Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz and the neo-cons wanted to turn the US into an Empire. Iraq was the first step.

I'd say you could remove extreme from that sentence. An Islamic fundamentalist takes everything in the Koran literally, right? If that's the case and they truly believe it's the word of god and they're totally devoted, then they have no choice but to be violent. The Koran commands it. I have to agree with HHSDad on this one.

As do Christian fundamentalist. Abortion clinic violence for instance is carried out by Christian fundamentalist. The Oklahoma City bombings carried out by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols had their roots in Christian fundamentalism. Mormon fundamentalist do as well, read "Under the Banner of Heaven" an account of the vicious murders Ronald and Dan Lafferty committed in the name of God. Jewish fundamentalist have carried out many acts of violence in the Middle East.

 

My point being, it's not Islamic fundamentalist that are the problem. Fundamentalist in every religion have carried out heinous acts of violence all in the name of God. I think it's very unfair to stereotype that the problem lies within the Islamic faith, when in fact it can be found in the present, past, and unfortunately the future of all religions.

As do Christian fundamentalist. Abortion clinic violence for instance is carried out by Christian fundamentalist. The Oklahoma City bombings carried out by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols had their roots in Christian fundamentalism. Mormon fundamentalist do as well, read "Under the Banner of Heaven" an account of the vicious murders Ronald and Dan Lafferty committed in the name of God. Jewish fundamentalist have carried out many acts of violence in the Middle East.

 

My point being, it's not Islamic fundamentalist that are the problem. Fundamentalist in every religion have carried out heinous acts of violence all in the name of God. I think it's very unfair to stereotype that the problem lies within the Islamic faith, when in fact it can be found in the present, past, and unfortunately the future of all religions.

 

A professor once said to me that religions are like loaded guns. In the wrong hands they can do terrible things. I think that's one of the truest things I've ever heard.

A professor once said to me that religions are like loaded guns. In the wrong hands they can do terrible things. I think that's one of the truest things I've ever heard.

Sounds like a professor I once had.

The body count from Islamic fundamentalist terrorist far outstrips the number of victims of other modern fundamentalists. To equate Christian fundamentalists or Jewish fundamentalists with the millions of Muslims worldwide who support and perpetrate terrorism is unfair.

 

Are the most violent fundamentalists of other religions just as evil as their Islamic counterparts? Sure they are - but how many people have actually died because of links to abortion clinics (not counting the millions of slaughtered innocents)? The total is but a drop in the bucket when compared to the number of victims claimed by Islamo-fascists during the past couple of decades.

 

A better comparison might be the deaths caused by Islamic fundamentalist terrorists to the number of victims killed in abortion mills during the past 20 years.

 

Christian fundamentalist terror deaths

 

Bush deserves credit for his post 9/11 efforts to fight all types of terror in this country.

The body count from Islamic fundamentalist terrorist far outstrips the number of victims of other modern fundamentalists. To equate Christian fundamentalists or Jewish fundamentalists with the millions of Muslims worldwide who support and perpetrate terrorism is unfair.

 

Are the most violent fundamentalists of other religions just as evil as their Islamic counterparts? Sure they are - but how many people have actually died because of links to abortion clinics (not counting the millions of slaughtered innocents)? The total is but a drop in the bucket when compared to the number of victims claimed by Islamo-fascists during the past couple of decades.

 

A better comparison might be the deaths caused by Islamic fundamentalist terrorists to the number of victims killed in abortion mills during the past 20 years.

 

Christian fundamentalist terror deaths

 

Bush deserves credit for his post 9/11 efforts to fight all types of terror in this country.

The Oklahoma City bombings cost 168 lives. The most recent count I've seen on the 9/11 attacks is 2,998. Both of these were heinous acts carried out on American soil against mainly citizens. They were both designed to kill indiscriminantly and succedeed in their goal. I think it's silly to try and put one above the other in terms of body counts. They are both unforgivable acts of violence carried out by fundamentalist. And we shouldn't try to put the blame on one subset, but instead the blame should go against all fundamentalist.

 

Though I would be interested to see a fairly accurate count on the total count of violence carried out by the "millions" of Islamic fundamentalist.

Can we have a fairly accurate count to back this up?

Probably not, but I will see what I can do when I return from a trip. You can easily find totals for abortion deaths in other recent threads. The number in the US is in the neighborhood of 3,000 deaths by doctor per day.

Probably not, but I will see what I can do when I return from a trip. You can easily find totals for abortion deaths in other recent threads. The number in the US is in the neighborhood of 3,000 deaths by doctor per day.

800,000 people were killed in the Rwandan genocide. Catholic priests and nuns were convicted of war crimes for their parts in the genocide. Many believe the Catholic church had an active role in the tragedy. I am by no means an expert, but I doubt the "millions" of Muslims worldwide have a body count this high.

 

And I'm sorry, but I don't see where abortion deaths relate to this arguement at all. We are talking about fundamentalism, not abortion. :confused:

The Oklahoma City bombings cost 168 lives. The most recent count I've seen on the 9/11 attacks is 2,998. Both of these were heinous acts carried out on American soil against mainly citizens. They were both designed to kill indiscriminantly and succedeed in their goal. I think it's silly to try and put one above the other in terms of body counts. They are both unforgivable acts of violence carried out by fundamentalist. And we shouldn't try to put the blame on one subset, but instead the blame should go against all fundamentalist.

 

Though I would be interested to see a fairly accurate count on the total count of violence carried out by the "millions" of Islamic fundamentalist.

I did not mean that there are millions of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. I meant to say that there are millions of Islamic fundamentalists who support terrorist acts. The number of fundamentalists who actually commit terror acts is obviously far lower. There were widespread and well documented celebrations on many Arab streets when the Twin Towers fell.

 

The blame for terrorists should not be directed at the terrorists and at the fundamentalists who support their acts. Relatively few Americans support the bombings of abortion clinics. Many Muslims worldwide support terrorism - a minority to be sure, but it is a large minority compared to the number of Christian fundamentalists who support terrorism. (Where were the public celebrations of the Oklahoma City bombing or of any of the attacks on abortion clinics?)

 

I will have to pick up my end of this debate later because I am leaving town.

I did not mean that there are millions of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. I meant to say that there are millions of Islamic fundamentalists who support terrorist acts. The number of fundamentalists who actually commit terror acts is obviously far lower. There were widespread and well documented celebrations on many Arab streets when the Twin Towers fell.

 

The blame for terrorists should not be directed at the terrorists and at the fundamentalists who support their acts. Relatively few Americans support the bombings of abortion clinics. Many Muslims worldwide support terrorism - a minority to be sure, but it is a large minority compared to the number of Christian fundamentalists who support terrorism. (Where were the public celebrations of the Oklahoma City bombing or of any of the attacks on abortion clinics?)

 

I will have to pick up my end of this debate later because I am leaving town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrations_of_the_September_11,_2001_attacks

 

These were few and far between and were a VERY small minority. They were also condemned (Iraq being an exception). That's using a very broad brush to paint Muslims as a whole.

800,000 people were killed in the Rwandan genocide. Catholic priests and nuns were convicted of war crimes for their parts in the genocide. Many believe the Catholic church had an active role in the tragedy. I am by no means an expert, but I doubt the "millions" of Muslims worldwide have a body count this high.

 

And I'm sorry, but I don't see where abortion deaths relate to this arguement at all. We are talking about fundamentalism, not abortion. :confused:

Genocide and civil wars involve heaping doses of evil, but they do not necessarily involve terrorist acts.

 

As for abortion, you have attempted to establish moral equivalence between fundamentalists of all religions. Islamic fundamentalists who support terrorist organizatons like Hamas and Al Qaueda are not equivalent to the fundamentalists in this country who oppose abortion using peaceful means in almost all cases.

 

The fact that a few lunatics have attacked abortion clinics and killed a few people involved with committing abortions does not make all Christian fundamentalists threats to commit terror attacks. There is no moral equivalence between Wahabism and the Southern Baptists or Pentacostals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrations_of_the_September_11,_2001_attacks

 

These were few and far between and were a VERY small minority. They were also condemned (Iraq being an exception). That's using a very broad brush to paint Muslims as a whole.

Your allegation is false. In no way did I imply that all Muslims celebrated the collapse of the towers, so I don't know what broad brush you are talking about. There were large celebrations in Arab streets, and as the article that you linked states, the PLO even attempted to censor reports of the celebrations.

Genocide and civil wars involve heaping doses of evil, but they do not necessarily involve terrorist acts.

 

As for abortion, you have attempted to establish moral equivalence between fundamentalists of all religions. Islamic fundamentalists who support terrorist organizatons like Hamas and Al Qaueda are not equivalent to the fundamentalists in this country who oppose abortion using peaceful means in almost all cases.

 

The fact that a few lunatics have attacked abortion clinics and killed a few people involved with committing abortions does not make all Christian fundamentalists threats to commit terror attacks. There is no moral equivalence between Wahabism and the Southern Baptists or Pentacostals.

 

I didn't say they were terrorist acts. Just acts of violence carried out by members of the Christian faith.

 

As are the majority of Christians, the majority of Muslims are peaceful. The abortion count still has nothing to do with this.

 

If it doesn't make all Christians threats to commit terror attacks or any acts of violence, how does it make all Muslims or he majority of Muslims? That's not really a very fair comparison. A more fair comparision would be the KKK or the many groups in Ireland.

Your allegation is false. In no way did I imply that all Muslims celebrated the collapse of the towers, so I don't know what broad brush you are talking about. There were large celebrations in Arab streets, and as the article that you linked states, the PLO even attempted to censor reports of the celebrations.

I'm talking about the one that says it's a large minority of Muslims and there are millions of Muslims who support terrorist acts. A million is a pretty broad number.

I didn't say they were terrorist acts. Just acts of violence carried out by members of the Christian faith.

 

As are the majority of Christians, the majority of Muslims are peaceful. The abortion count still has nothing to do with this.

 

If it doesn't make all Christians threats to commit terror attacks or any acts of violence, how does it make all Muslims or he majority of Muslims? That's not really a very fair comparison. A more fair comparision would be the KKK or the many groups in Ireland.

In none of my posts have I referred to all Muslims. My responses to your posts have been directed at fundamentalist Muslims who support terrorism. Muslim fundamentalists are much more likely to support, applaud, and engage in terrorism as modern Christian fundamentalists. Attempts to paint fundamentalists of all religions with the same broad brush are ridiculous.

 

The biggest threat to US citizens both here and abroad is not Christian fundamentalist terrorists. The greatest threats to them are terror acts perpetrated by Muslim fundamentalists.