All Play No Work

I think the first complaint ended up in the Class A tournament.

 

They complain, just not on here, yet. And not as loud.

Yes and No.

Since the All-A is not a KHSAA event it is not really an answer.

It is a viable alternative for some schools, so.............

Maybe public schools that do not think they can effectively compete with private and independent school districts should organize their own post season football tourney.

Call it the All-Public School Championship.

I agree with this. Everytime this issue comes up someone will say, "the publics need to stop complaining and work harder to catch up with the privates."

Well, if your O-line averages 200 pounds and the other team's averages 275, how is "working harder" going to help the smaller team? Can Pee Wee Herman manhandle Hulk Hogan? Or if a basketball team has a front line that averages 6'7, how can "working harder" help a team who has a front line that averages 6'1? And, yes, schools that can draw players from surrounding counties will more than likely have several more 275 pound linemen and 6'7 front court players than schools that are locked into a one county district.

 

That's a lame argument as far as I'm concerned. There's nothing wrong with "hard work", but it will only take you so far, then reality replaces it.

Then model your football programs after those public schools that are successful.

As was mentioned before how does Highlands end up in state title games most years after eliminating private Covington Catholic somewhere along the way? How does Beechwood end up in state title games after eliminating NCC somewhere along the way? How is Male able to compete in 4A?

If the answer is that those public schools are independent school districts then work to make your school district independent if that is what you desire. If that is not your desire then compete as best you can and go on.

I do find it somewhat curious that in the state of KY with no basketball classification (and no movement to go to classes) whereby most likely the majority of schools in the state have no chance of winning a championship .....no one complains.

 

Let me first say this at the beginning and not the end. I don't see an advantage to be a straight shot to splitting the schools up. Schools have advantages. It is that simple.

 

Kenton County and Boone County has a ton of junior golf programs and a bunch of country clubs. Generally, the parents who can afford to be a member of a country club, will be the parents to consider a private school.

 

Highlands has a country club. Advantages that the other schools in Campbell County do not have.

 

As far as Brossart, I can tell you that the Pendleton Country Club has a lot of members that's children attend Brossart and live in Campbell County not Pendleton County. I have been told by a member at Pendleton Country Club, I am not one, that the majority of members are from Campbell County.

 

I could be wrong but I think the city of Fort Thomas has a Country Club in it not Highlands has a country club. And I have never explored it but can't anyone join a country club if they have enough dough? Maybe someone has to invite you or something I don't know.

 

Why wouldn't Pendelton Country high school be a Golf Power if there is a CC there and the parents of those kids do not have to pay tuition to a private school thereby freeing up the dough? Would that not be an advantage?

They "go" to volleyball and soccer and cross-country or are getting ready for basketball season or work after school because girls golf is just not a big draw at those schools compared to the other sports.

 

Now if a girl was a premier golfer and had a definate possibility of playing in college on a scholly then she may end up at Notre Dame (golf power) or at Highlands. Why would she go to a school (Brossart, NCC, Campbell Co.) that may or may not field a team? Is that an advantage for ND or Highlands? Yes. Should they be penalized? No.[/QUOTE]

 

I agree. It seems at times that supporters of private schools are afraid to admit they have an advantage. Most do but should not be penalized. Just like public schools have advantage in resources and funds. That is just the way it is.

 

 

But where is the advantage????

 

In the example above the girl golfer is likely to migrate FROM two private schools and a public school TO a Public school or a Private school.

 

How exactly does Notre Dame or Highlands have an advantage in Girls Golf??? Because they are sucessful???

 

And note that if this was a Girl Cross Country runner Brossart has a multiple State championships. What is their advantage in Cross-Country??? Why doesn't it apply to Golf?

I did not say raid or insinuate raid. Again, from my perspective, a good many parents who spend the time and resources to allow their child to participate in the junior golf programs will consider spending the time and money for a private school. I have stated in the past that my children participate in those programs and if there were a Christian school, like Calvary Christian, that was a realitic and feasible option for my children, I would strongly consider it.

 

I don't feel these schools should be penalized but that is the situation that exists.

 

I do wonder where the girl golfers in Campbell County end up then. Highlands is a good program, but with what you say about Brossart and knowing the situation in NCC and Campbell County, where do they go?

They "go" to volleyball and soccer and cross-country or are getting ready for basketball season or work after school because girls golf is just not a big draw at those schools compared to the other sports.

Now if a girl was a premier golfer and had a definate possibility of playing in college on a scholly then she may end up at Notre Dame (golf power) or at Highlands. Why would she go to a school (Brossart, NCC, Campbell Co.) that may or may not field a team? Is that an advantage for ND or Highlands? Yes. Should they be penalized? No.

Since it is all about football.............why would private schools voted out have to align as "schools" anymore?

Why couldn't a league of private "teams" be formed?

Consider:

Team 1: Trinity

Team 2: St. X

Team 3: Lou. Holy Cross/ DeSales/ CAL

Team 4: LexCath/ LCA

Team 5: CovCath/NewCath/Cov. Holy Cross

(I know I missed some private schools)

Plus I see no reason why students at say St. Henry or Brossart wouldn't join Team 5 for football.

Actually I see no reason why a student at say Dunbar wouldn't be free to join Team 4 and not play for Dunbar if they wanted to.

I think these 5 teams would find many private Ohio, Tenn., and Indiana teams to wanting to play, considering teams like Cincinnati Moeller had to play Canadian teams to fill out their schedule.

First, let's clear up some things.

No one questioned the ability of public school coaches except the public schools that cited the fact that private schools can attract a certain type of coach and therefore things are not equal. (Basically stems back to the LexCath basketball opening if you ask me.)

Of course, not every private school can attract/afford a superior coach (most can't I'd say) but the response from private schools and some public schools was that those complaining are free to pursue whomever they want.

Does anyone believe for a moment that if Highlands of Beechwood were in need of a Head Coach that they would not pursue every and all candidates. Of course they would. Will they attract more candidates than if a public county had an opening? Certainly. Should they be penalized? Should a private school be penalized?

It sounds like it's not a state tournament, but a Northern Kentucky regional tournament.

Basically it was that at the end although it was open to any team in the state.

It is kind of a long story on how it came to be that way.

There is a lot of mis-information in this thread.

The state (KHSAA) decided to stop sanctioning slow pitch softball since only 20 schools fielded teams and they were all in one area. Some of those schools, mostly the larger ones like Dixie, Simon Kenton etc. also field fast pitch teams.

In an effort to ease the transition to fast pitch, the decision was made to allow 2 more years of slow pitch as long as those teams also played 10 games of fast pitch in those years which would allow them to "get ready" for a full fast pitch schedule after that. (Sounds good in theory but not practical for schools that have both fast and slow pitch teams).

Now some schools are contemplating just switching to fast pitch only as soon as next year, some are still undecided, some want to play two more seasons of slow pitch while playing 10 fast pitch games, some are trying to push alternatives such as switching slow pitch to the fall season. That one would help with Title IX things but would be tough to pull off with Volleyball and Soccer and Golf and Cross Country already in place.

Thanks. That answers my question. It should be interesting, and it is a long way off, but I like No. KY's chances of having a team on the carpet in both A and AAA.

 

As for discussing hypotheticals months in advance being the premise of the site, that isn't for me to speak to. You have certainly been an active addition to BGP, and that is great.

It's all good.

Heck if we didn't discuss hypotheticals months in advance there wouldn't be much to do except over-analyze scrimmages, over-analyze legal wranglings and watch the clock tick down to kickoff.

Okay, I am posing this question: are you saying it could or it will? Obviously, it could. A lot of things "could" happen between now and Halloween. Louisville "could" get shut out of the 4A State Title game too. I don't think it will happen, but it could.

 

I just don't get it, sorry. I don't mean any offense, it just seems strange. Obviously, No. KY "could" get shut out of Louisville this year. They "could" be shut out every year. Now, people have come out in Augusts gone by and predicted this, and I was just wondering if you were taking a similar stance. However, it appears to me that you are simply floating out that it "could" happen. I agree completely!!! It "could" happen.

I floated the question to the masses (Is NKY one upset away from having no state finalist since 1978?) and then stated that I think that yes this year they are. If something happens in Class A, then NKY has a more significant chance than in any recent years of not having a finalist.

Others have disagreed and think that an NKY Class AAA is a fairly solid choice this year and that NKY Class AA may have a decent chance, and even NKY Class AAAA could pull of their own upset and make it.

Then we debated back and forth on why we think the way we do and what teams could/should represent NKY at PJCS and what state teams could/should prevent that.

Kind of the whole premise of the website I thought.

Okay, to follow up, so are you "predicting" this will happen or simply saying it "could" happen?

I am posing the question (see the title of the thread) is NKY one upset away from not making the finals?

I think NKY is one loss upset away because other than Class A I would not consider NKY a heavy favorite in any class now and by playoff time it may only take one upset to keep NKY out of the finals for the first time since 1978.

For example, in 2004 I would have thought Beechwood/NCC in Class A were locks, Highlands in Class AAA was a lock, and Dixie, Conner, Boone et.al had closed the gap on Trinity which turned out to be true but still did not matter.

I am confused at what the point of this conversation has been? Is it that upsets can happen? I knew / know that. Is it that you (APNW) think this year the Northern KY teams are at their most vulnerable? Is it that you think the teams in the Central and Eastern Parts of the state are particularly good?

 

I just don't get it. Obviously, it is "possible" that Beechwood, NCC, Newport, Lloyd, CovCath, HHS, Dixie, Conner and Boone are all home by week 2 or 3 of the playoffs. Likely, no, but certainly possible.

 

I just don't see the point that is trying to be made, either directly or indirectly.

See one of my posts above but to summerize:

No dominant/heavy favorite NKY team in Class AAA.

NKY Class AA doesn't seem to get to the finals.

Same for NKY AAAA.

If Class A doesn't make it (one upset) then it is like 2001 and no NKY team makes the final which hasn't happened since 1978.

That leaves 1A...

I covered that (and remember this is the upset class).

Maybe Lex Christian picks off Beechwood or NCC (or both). Maybe they don't, and maybe NCC beats Beechwood but suffers an critical injury (QB?) in the game and then the starting tailback goes down on the first play of the semi finals.

Heck maybe Pikeville beats NCC this Friday, NCC beats Beechwood, and Pikeville beats NCC again.

Upsets happen.

I'm not buying it. I disagree with paragraph four. We have two of the favorites in NKY right now, if not three.

 

Add to that our 4A teams have gotten consistently better. Is this their year again? Who knows. But after being lucky to win one game against the 'ville to knocking them out in round two is a considerable improvement. We all know who I believe should have went to the carpet in 4A last season and what I believe the outcome would have been. Whos to say it won't happen again. An all NKY 4A district has made us stronger. It could happen.

 

After last season, I think it's safe to say it's not a given that T and X will meet up in the finals.

Agree it could happen. It also might not happen.

Looking quickly at the BGP pre-season rankings (and granted these will not be the same at playoff time) NKY's side of the playoffs has:

Class A #1 (NKY team) #2 (NKY team) #5, #7, #8

Class AA #2, #3, #4, #6 (NKY team), #9, #10

Class AAA #2 (NKY team), #3, #5 (NKY team), #6, #7, #8, #10

Class AAAA No NKY teams

And remember in Class A of the #1 and #2 teams only one can advance.

In Class AAA of the #2 and #5 teams only one can advance.

So right now NKY would be a heavy favorite in Class A and a slight favorite in Class AAA. Now say all the rankings hold true all season long but CovCath edges Highlands in the playoffs. Now are we need is one upset (Class A) and no NKY team makes the finals.

Not who MIGHT do it. Who will???

IMO Harrison County

Has the offense that can score on Highlands/CovCath and a defense that will be good enough to keep them in the game since I see Highlands or CovCath as capable on offense but not being ultra explosive this year.

As I asked before. Stop taking shots in the dark. Who's going to travel to NKY and do it???

Remembering the one upset theory (most likely needed in Class A) whereby Lex. Christian or the EKY (Pikeville/ Lynn Camp) would knock off the NCC/ Beechwood survivor....

In Class AAA any of these could be a candidate to come to NKY and win:

Rockcastle (returns a lot on both sides of the ball)

Bell Co (lost a few to graduation but gave a stellar Highlands team fits, got to ask yourself which team lost more)

Ashland (could be undefeated against KY competition)

LexCath (QB certainly capable)

Harrison County (Lots of starters back, will score and if defense is on watch out)

Class A, Class AA, and Class AAA have a very good chance of making it to the finals going into the first week. I can't see all three being upset in the playoffs. I think to say otherwise is wishfull thinking at best. Neither Beechwood or HHS choke in big games and NCC, CCH and LLoyd are all capable of playing their way there too. If I was in Vegas.......

Well if you were in Vegas (and only using the terms not really talking odds)how many pretzel sticks would you get back for the 10 you put up? Maybe one, since an NKY team has made it to the finals every year since it 1978??

Now how many pretzel sticks would you get back for the 10 you put up that no team would make it to the finals in 2005? Maybe 200?

Its like saying is next year the year the Atlanta Braves do not make the playoffs? It is probable that they will, but possible that they will not.

And I think this year 2005 is the most probable year in a long, long time because the two traditionally NKY dominant classes (A, AAA) do not have a heavy favorite for the state title, in the AAAA class it is hard to find even a favorite to win the district, and the AA teams have to hope no one has improved off of last year.

Heading into their SR years I'd take Webb hands down. And that's from as big a fan as you get in reguards to Myrion...

 

 

NCC drilled Lloyd in 03, and they were a missed PAT from OT with Belfry. It shows how much better the Top of 1A is when compared to Lloyd's Region in 2A. They scored 55+ points in every game between NCC and Belfry, so that has little to do with getting to the 2A Final...

Noted.

But note that what I'm saying is it won't take a spectacular team to block Lloyd or Newport's road to the final. A slightly better than average team could do it and only one of them can make it out of the region. It has happened every other year and could change this year but then again maybe not.

The Region 4 winner in AAA looks to be Ashland/Bell/Rock while in A it looks to be either Pikeville/Lynn Camp. If NewCath/Beechwood and CovCath/Highlands are fortunate enough to win Region 3, those look like the teams they will be facing.

Of course we will all know more after the opener against LexCath but NCC/Beechwood might get a test (upset?) from Lex. Christian before even getting out of the region.

What has Newport done? Both teams return most of their starters, and Lloyd won last Year. And IMO Webb is a better back that Myrion...

 

 

And Lloyd has lost, what, one district game since Mason Co moved...

I will repectfully disagree that Webb (while good) is a better back than Myrion.

Anyway it is totally possible that either Lloyd or Newport COULD get to a final because 2A always seems to be more open. But before we slot them in Papa's lets remember that both had running clocks against them when they played a 1A team that did not even get out of the region. That would seem to be a very tall order to improve that much in one year.

So.....Who in AAA do you see as a dominate team/heavy favorite?

There isn't one. I would say that Highlands and CovCath would certainity be in the mix in 3A but if neither makes it to the final it would not take a shocking upset as it would in say the Lorenzen year. Think back to 2001. CovCath edges Highlands and then (some say they came out flat) lost at home to Rockcastle Co. who some did not believe were for real. And remember it is not like Rockcastle went on and won the title. They got bounced big time by Boyle.

I could see a similar situation this year. Maybe CovCath and Highlands hook up and the winner gets beat. Maybe not, but certainly there could be a possiblity.

Cov Cath WAS one upset, so again two will be needed...

That year was an upset as Rockcastle rose quickly. This year if wouldn't be such a shocker as I mentioned neither Highlands or CovCath is thought of as a dominate team/heavy favorite.

Who in the East in A-AAA can come into NKY and pull the upset. Take off the blinfold while shooting, and enlighten us as to what teams you feel will allow this to happen....

Who would have thought Rockcastle Co would come into CovCath and beat them on their home field after CovCath had dispatched Highlands??

Wasn't everyone just about sure that CovCath would roll right into the finals that year? Weren't people talking about a running clock for CovCath?

Things happen

So let me get this straight, we're going to get four teams to the semi finals and then all four teams are going to loose? Medium Well, that's the way I like 'em.

Don't think I said that.

I said think 2001.

NewCath made it to the final (think if they had been upset that year)

Lloyd bounced 2nd round

CovCath lost to Rock in the semi

All 4 AAAA teams lost in round 1.