goherd96

Now you help me out after I already dug through the flotsam to find it...

I can understand your feelings on this matter to a point. Personally, in my area, we only have one private school in the area and they only had some basketball success a few years back with the import of OJ Mayo, et al. The public schools here carry the banner of educational, as well as athletic, excellence. My own high school has won multiple state Governors' Cup Awards in academic competition going up against the privates as well as the bigger, metropolitan publics.

However, the public schools in this area also know that once they reach the state level in athletic competition, they have little chance of making a big impact in the minor sports (tennis, volleyball, swimming, soccer). The privates have dominated these sports more than any other, with the exception of 4A football, over the last 10-20 years if not longer. Why is this? I have no ideas other than the privates were the first schools to emphasize most of these "country club" sports and therefore have a head start on the rest of the state. They also typically are located in larger metro areas which allows for a larger student population and thereby a larger talent pool. These metro areas also tended to have youth leagues for many of these sports well in advance of the more rural parts of Kentucky. These factors have lead to skill levels far exceeding what has been achieved in the rest of the state. At my own school, our softball team has dominated the region and competed closely down state. The reason is the quality of the youth league and the participation by many of the girls on summer traveling squads. The fact that they have been able to be competitive with teams around the state lends credence to my previosly stated theory.

That all being said, I feel there is a disparity yet I have no idea how to handle it. While much of the weeping and gnashing of teeth seems to be the result of the perception of recruiting by the privates, please do not assume that the publics are simply "choosing to just eliminate the private schools." I know of many instances which most would call recruiting, someone unaffiliated directly with a school (a booster) contacting a kid to try and get him to attend "his" school. My understanding of this is the KHSAA has no rules governing this type of behavior. Honestly, I don't see how they could because the policing of that type of activity would be an absolute nightmare. Now, most of these instances of which I am aware have nothing to do with private schools, they are almost entirely involving publics. This is what I see as the biggest problem in high school athletics, but that's just my opinion. How do you fix it? Who knows...

In any case, I still see the furor over Prop 20 to be much ado about nothing. I really feel like the state BOE and legislature will not allow it to stand in its current form. I fully expect some sort of compromise to be reached that will put this to rest, at least temporarily.

I'll stop typing now...

You mean you expect me to go back through all of these????? :eek:

I think a lot of people care and that's what drives this forum!

Yes, but I personally feel some people have taken this issue WAAAAAAAY too seriously. The feeling one gets when reading through this is the high level of emotion most seem to feel. I agree it drives the forum, but I fear it may be driving us over the cliff... :thumb:

Honestly, very likely 1-9 and no better than 3-7 in favor of Ashland. Russell was just able to take better advantage of Ashland's mistakes last night.

So, if you don't swim for a private school its impossible to get a good time? Wow that's a pretty arrogant statement. I realize that the private schools dominate the team swimming titles, but its pretty bold to say that their absence would prohibit any ahtlete from having a good swim. Someone should tell the U.S. Olympic committee not to bother looking at any public school athletes.

 

LARGE private schools have some advantages over public schools, thats ok but it would be a lot easier to swallow if their fans weren't so arrogant and condensending.

:thumb:

I must state, who really cares??? It's HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS...yes, I am a fan of my teams and love sports, but let's try to have a little perspective here. I know this post will garner much backlash and negative remarks, but I really don't care. IMHO, it's ridiculous...BOTH sides. Also, one gets the impression from reading this that it's all about football. Personally, it looks like the private schools hold much greater sway in the minor sports. Have any public schools EVER wonn state in volleyball? Who's the last public school to win state in swimming or tennis? I really don't know, but I imagine those instances have been few and veeeeeeeery far between. Anyway, I'm surprised it passed, probably won't be enacted as it stands now, might have some compromise put in place, I don't know. In any event, the sun will come out tomorrow and a billion or so Chinese will not know a thing about it.

Looks like this wasn't quite the reversal of last year's shellacking that some Tomcat fans predicted. These games usually never are that one-sided and it looks like tonight was more of the same. These close games at this level should mean we have several more good battles to look forward to on the varsity level the next few years.

As All Play has pointed out the fact he understood the analogy without any misgivings about the meaning of your post. As such, I will apologize and extend the olive branch. I must have made a reactionary judgement on your intent. I would certainly hope no one on this board would equate the two, and apparently, I have falsely accused All Tell of said infraction. Mea Culpa...

Oh please

 

No I do not think that this argument is even close in scope to the desegration of schools.

 

I was simply using what I thought was an example of the absurdity of the argument that it would be a frivolous lawsuit because it could cost schools money. By his thinking then the lawsuits that caused schools to be desegrated would have been considered frivolous. If you can't see that them maybe I'm not the obtuse one.

Sir, you are the individual who made the comparison between the two, not I. Obviously, I am aware of the ridiculous nature of your analogy, hence my rebuke. Your absurdity was not well thought out, otherwise, you may have chosen a more appropriate metaphor. When comparing something as frivolous as high school athletics to the long struggle for equal rights by minorities in this country, you denigrate the legacy of those who fought and, in some instances, died for this cause. At least you acknowledge your argument isn't even in the same category.

"Proposals 4 and 5 similarly deal with eighth-grade public school students who transfer to private schools for ninth grade. One proposal forbids those students from participating in any activities for the first year while the other proposal forbids students from participating in varsity sports."

 

Does that mean transferring students are forbidden from participating in Varsity Sports in just their first year or for their entire high school career?

 

The article mentioned these alternate proposals, but did not explain how the voting process works for what seem like late submissions. Will they be added to the KHSAA's official list of proposals prior to the Oct 20 vote?

Proposals 4 and 5 don't apply unless the student has participated in sports at the member school (i.e. the high school). Remember, middle schools, junior highs, and elementary school sports are outside the jurisdiction of the KHSAA and these institutions are NOT KHSAA member schools. Proposal 4 reads that the child shall be ineligible if they played in any interscholastic competition, which can be interpreted to mean varsity, JV or freshmen level. Proposal 5 stipulates that the student shall be ineligible if they participated in any VARSITY competition. This is the way I read the proposals straight from the KHSAA.

Also, I didn't read anywhere in the proposal's where it differentiated between public or private school's. I would take that to mean the knife would cut both ways. If a child was enrolled in Trinity's feeder school and then left for another high school after 8th grade after playing a sport for the Rocks, he would then be ineligible for the new school. At least that is my take on it, which I believe is fair.

So the only reason it is frivolous is because it will cost the schools money?

 

Was the lawsuit that ended segregation frivolous? It put the school in a lose-lose situation? Had they won it would have still cost them money to defend against the suit.

I just now read through this thread for the first time and I cannot believe someone would equate the Civil Rights Movement with high school athletics... :irked:

Talk about apples and oranges, if I were a minority, I would probably be outraged that someone could be so obtuse.

From what my contacts in the 16th Region tell me, Cubster's reference to a private school having a major part of its team from outside its county of location is not a shot at St X or Trinity but, instead, a shot at a private school in the 64th District. Apparently, a couple of girls at Russell left last year and enrolled at a private school. Actually, my contacts tell me that the girls in question actually moved to Ashland from Russell prior to transferring. However, much because of Russell's efforts, those two girls are not eligible at their new school until the middle of December. Russell has picked up athletes from other schools in recent years.

It is not ususual for publics to cry loudly to DeVries and associates when a private picks up some of their athletes. Unfortunately, when the movement is in the other direction, it is merely a legitimate transfer for good reason.

I believe your contacts are a little off with their info. The move was following the dismissal of one girl from the Russell team after the season had started. The girls are sisters and when this happened, mom decided that either the one would be reinstated, or both would leave the team. Virtually the same situation had occurred the previous season and the same daughter was allowed back on the team with conditions. Second time around was no go, so mom pulled them out of Russell and enrolled them at Rose Hill. This was also the time when mom began a new job which required her to drive maybe 10 - 15 minutes further. That was the reason given to the KHSAA for the move. It didn't fly with them for good reason. As Cubster said, after the girls serve their one year, they will be eligible again. No problem with this from Russell. Get your facts straight before you begin speaking ill of someone else's intentions... :sssh:

Belfry Pikeville and Letcher Central have fields to put up against any in the state...and IMO are nicer than Putnam. Check out LCC...the stadium and field...and YES our scoreboard is near the bottom. Enjoy

 

http://www.letcher.k12.ky.us/photos/LCCHS82205/LCCHS82205.htm

 

you may have to cut and paste into your browser

BLASPHEMER!!!!!!

Seats on one side of the field is not exactly an uncommon thing around high school sports. Painter, I didn't know that about Putnam's home locker rooms. The last time I was there, they were pretty nasty too, but then that was late November of 2002...

Even if they were, I would still rank Putnam Stadium as the top place in E.Ky to play and watch a football game on a Friday night.

Not here...the locker rooms at Putnam are a joke. The really sad thing is that the home team's isn't any better than the visitors. Both are dank, nasty dungeonesque places that cry out for remodeling. Does HGTV have a locker room spruce up show...maybe Designing for the Jocks or Trading Locker Spaces...

Better idea...save all the money they spend on these investigations and adopt an all or none type policy. Either everyone can transfer at the drop of a hat without repercussion or every varsity athlete sits one year, NO MATTER WHAT, if he or she transfers after participating in a varsity event at the former school.

The Louisville paper and the Lexington paper showing bias against eastern Kentucky?!?!?!?

I'm shocked!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Personally, I thought the Massey ratings were more accurate last season.

Originally posted by westsider

Heck, Ashland scored 28 on Russell in four quarters, and I don't hear anybody nominating the Tomcats for offense of the year.

Since you keep bringing up the Ashland game, you obviously need some clarification on this point. The Ashland game was game 2 last season. Ashland scored 20 of their 28 points on the new starting DB. He blew his coverage assignment on three TD passes and on a 2 pt conversion play.

He was removed from the starting lineup the following week and played little or no defense the rest of the year. Comparing Russell's defense against Ashland to their defense against Breathitt is apples and oranges.

Regarding Mason County, Russell might have been only one play away from losing both games, but the Royals couldn't make it. When push came to shove, the Red Devils made the big plays to win the games.

As for Portsmouth West, they finished as the Ohio Division IV (I think it's D-IV) runner-up last season.

Ask NewarkCatholicFan about Russell and Breathitt versus the top 1A teams. I sent him copies of most of Russell's games and I'm pretty sure he went to the championship games. He might be able to provide some impartiality to this subject.

Originally posted by westsider

If you rated the teams 1-10 and played them off, it would've been about even ... maybe a slight edge to 2A.

 

State champs ... Mayfield vs. Breathitt County

No. 2 ... Beechwood vs. Russell

No. 3 ... Danville vs. Mason County

No. 4 ... Owensboro Catholic vs. Newport Catholic

 

I think Class A would win 2 of those games, maybe 3 ...

 

Then you're talking about teams like Belfry, Prestonsburg, Lloyd, Corbin, LaRue County, Bardstown, Webster County, etc., against the likes of Green County, Middlesboro, Louisville Holy Cross, Christian Academy of Louisville, Ballard Memorial, Murray, Crittenden County, Pikeville, etc.

I think there are too many folks from Beechie Tech voting in this poll...

I think 2A would have taken the top three match-ups in your list. I'd like to see a comparison of head-to-head games or common opponents during last season similar to the Lloyd-Beechwood one listed. I know Mason whipped the Juggs in their playoff game before losing to Russell for the second time. Russell then goes to Breathitt and loses by 1 in OT.

I know Middlesboro lost at home, late in the season to 3A Boyd County. Russell whipped BC 40-18 earlier in the year. I know 1 or 2 games do not mean much, but if you have several to compare, it may show a trend.

ASE sounds like AAU and Coach Barnes' PR guy...:lol:

I am not a Rose Hill supporter nor am I a basher, yet I feel compelled to make a staement. It seems to me ASE has brought up nothing but conjecture of his own while failing to answer any legitimate question posed with anything but rhetoric.

Is BW enrolled in school now and if so where?

What grade was BW enrolled in before transferring to RH this past fall?

If you possess knowledge of violations at Rose Hill, have you contacted the KHSAA to report it? If not, why?

Please spare us your ramblings and give short, concise answers to these legitimate questions.

As far as AAU, I don't believe it is a good avenue to college for young athletes. I believe it is an avenue to exploitation by coaches who have nothing but their best interests at heart. I have personally seen an AAU coach actively recruit an athlete from a Kentucky high school to another public high school, out of state, where he was also head coach. This was in no one's best interest but his.

With the numerous scandals at colleges involving AAU coaches and summer camps, I don't know why the NCAA doesn't simply eliminate ALL contact during AAU and summer camp games and tournaments. Of course the answer is the almighty dollar, but this is a topic for a different thread...

What difference does it make? I am not a supporter of the school, but I don't see what difference it makes if the school told a white lie to protect the kid and the team from intrusive questions and negative attention. Personally, I think they just didn't see a need to air their dirty laundry, especially when it involves a minor, on the radio and in the paper.

Originally posted by analyst25

So the stories the royal camp gave the local media outlets of Walker being ill was all bogus?? Just wondering:rolleyes:

Don't act like this would be the first time you ever heard of a school or pro team giving a bogus health report to account for a players not being on the field, court, etc.

Across the river Ironton's Tank Stadium and Portsmouth's Spartan Stadium are 1920's era NFL stadiums that are great places to see a game. I love the nostalgia of the truly old stadiums. The Pit at Cincinnati Elder is a great atmosphere for a game too.