Mojocat

13 minutes ago, bigapplekid said:

Can you explain? I have no idea what that means. 

Apparently was golfing over the weekend, teed off, ball ricochets off something and comes back to hit him squarely in the face.  Broken nasal bone or cavity.  All according to the coach of another 8th region team.  So, hearsay.

9 minutes ago, bigapplekid said:

Is Grant playing without a starter tonight? 

Yep, hearing the same.  The dreaded golf mishap!

1 hour ago, Royals and Saints Fan said:

Woodford got sent to the 8th and Franklin County needed a 4th but then Frankfort Christian appeared.  Woodford has to go through Franklin to get to every 8th region school except Anderson.  I'm sure Woodford is thrilled but it is really not rational to me.  I also find it funny that North and South Laurel are in different districts.

I'm sure that's a common way to look at it - that Woodford is much better off in the 8th region than the 11th.  And maybe it's just a one year thing, but as I look at the two regions, there's not a tremendous difference between them.  Both regions have 3 teams ranked in the BGP Top 20.  Otherwise, for all its faults, I'm looking at the RPI rankings of teams in those regions, and the 8th compares fairly well.  Teams above .60000:  11th region has 5, 8th region has 6.  Bad teams, and for these purposes I'll say teams with an RPI below .50000:  11th region has 9, and the 8th region only has 7. 

Now you might say, well, yeah, but the three 11th region teams are all in the top 7, while the three from the 8th only have one in the top 5 and the other two are 17 and 18.  So more of a chore getting through that to go to Rupp.  And, like I said up top,  you might say this is just one year anyway, and typically the 11th is going to be much stronger than the 8th.  Maybe so.  But, as I look at it today, there's not much difference between the two.

6 minutes ago, ChickenWyngz said:

The bolded is true, but he is in his 5th year of varsity time. How many years did Kelly play? (I legitimately have no idea, this isn't a shot)

 

**Just had to read the thread to find out lol. Coleman played 4 years.

Oh, that's true.  Perry averaged 22 a game, I think, as a 7th grader.  Which is the kind of start you have to get off to in order to break this record - and if anyone other than his dad is coaching, I doubt that he's averaging 22 in the 7th grade, and at many places, wouldn't even have been playing varsity as a 7th grader.  Still, whatever you want to say, or however you want to qualify it, it's a tremendous thing.

As for Coleman, I would have guessed he only played 3 years (college freshmen couldn't play, so I was assuming high school freshmen were ineligible, too - but obviously those two things aren't the same or related).  And, the kicker, he had no 3 point line!  Really what Coleman did reminds me of Pete Maravich at LSU.  Almost stupefying, really.  

So, you can't compare two guys who played 70 years apart, literally everything is different.  But each is super impressive.

Anyone know if you can buy tickets for this in advance online, or is it cash at the gate?

4 hours ago, Hoopstars said:

All very true.  Aau basketball and baseball do conflict big time. I think by combo of luck and system OC has had a long stretch of key basketball contributors playing baseball- oak, bates, mcclartys, Teague, Amburgey, - I’m sure I am missing others.  outside of oak, most of these guys relied on being super physical, aggressive kids who attacked the rim primarily and that didn’t require as much year round focus since OC played a style that emphasized aggression and physicality more than skill…not saying all those guys weren’t skilled. If you are a skill based program, kids near to play year round. 

Yep.  I talked to 2 dads of kids you mention here - I asked, how are we going to do this?  And they were both generous with their time and had good advice.  The problem was this:  both of those kids clearly had baseball #1, and basketball was the second sport.  That’s do-able.  You play school basketball, and as soon as that’s over, you roll into baseball for spring/summer/fall, school ball and travel ball.  No conflict.  The OC basketball coach didn’t hold it against them for not playing summer ball.  Basketball #1 and baseball as the fun sport doesn’t work so well.

Yep.  Pretty amazing stuff - he's going to conceivably break a record previously thought unbreakable, and might not even need his senior year to do so.  I pretty vividly recall the first time I saw Perry.  He was in 6th grade, playing at the old KBA in Lexington.  His team was beating another 6th grade team - I want to say it was something like 87 - 13.  Or something crazy.  He looked like he was 17 already.   I'm sure they always had folks claiming he was too old, had been held back too many years, all that. Good for him.  And his dad.

And you know what's also amazing?  The linked record book lists 37 players that have scored 3,000 points.  Taking Perry out of the picture, the previous number 2 kid, Osborne, was closer to #37 (647 points difference) than he was #1 (690 points difference).  Coleman truly lapped the field (and then some)!

 

2 hours ago, Falcon Pride said:

Imagine that…kids can still do that!!!

This is an issue I’m passionate about. Kids should be just that (kids). Play different sports. Let different muscle groups come into play. Have a different set of teammates and friends.

Parents don’t be so dang pushy to create the next star. College coaches PREFER multi sport kids!!!

Like a lot of other families, we struggled with this mightily.  My youngest kid was pretty good at both basketball and baseball - nationally ranked travel teams for both in middle school and all of that.  The problem - at least with those two sports - isn't really the occasional coach who doesn't want you to play the other sport.  Although that can come into play.  The problem is the calendars just collide too much.  It is virtually impossible to play both travel baseball and AAU basketball.  It is virtually impossible to play AAU and school baseball as far as that goes.  What you can do is say, well, I'll focus on one and play the other for fun.  Even that is a chore - while you're playing the main sport most of the time, other kids are devoting all of their time to the sport you play for fun, so you get behind in that 'second' sport.  If you're a kid who is the best or among the best, you're likely at some point to not be as good as other kids who are dedicated to a sport, and frankly it's less fun once you start falling in the pecking order, for lack of a better way to say it.  Playing multiple sports is healthy for total body development, more healthy mentally than focusing on a single sport, guards against burnout - there are plenty of reasons to do it.  But even if you have parents that encourage it, and coaches that encourage it, the current system we have set up makes it really hard.

Looking forward to this one - I've seen Johnson play once (and that was last year) and haven't seen Moore at all (hard to believe, since he's played in this Region since 1997, give or take).  Taking into account all the things I've heard, and some knowledge of other players in this game, I'm inclined to believe 4 Quarters is right.  

I have said - and still believe - that if every team plays its A+ game, North Oldham is head and shoulders the best.  That doesn't mean they will walk through this and win every regional game by 20+.  You know there will be close games along the way.  So I'm pretty confident that North wins, but I wouldn't try to pick a score.....

1 hour ago, 4 Quarters said:

Explosion!

To wit:

"A gas explosion in the basement boiler room killed a student in the art room next door and hurt several others on Oct. 9, 1980. Thirty minutes later, a second explosion -10 times more powerful than the first - injured more than two dozen firefighters and utility workers who had responded to the first emergency...

 

A local deputy said the second blast knocked first responders off their feet and scattered them like bowling pins. Most suffered burns and many were taken by ambulance to St. Elizabeth Hospital. The rest of the students had been evacuated before the second explosion. Worried parents rushed to a nearby school to find their teens and hug them.

But a 16-year-old junior, Robert Williams,  was killed when the first explosion blew apart the cinder block wall between the boiler room and the art room. He had been standing close to the wall....

The two explosions and resulting fire caused about $1.5 million damage to the school and forced Simon Kenton students to take classes at the newly-opened Scott High School. Scott students attended in the morning and Simon Kenton held classes from 1:30 to 7:30 p.m.

Meanwhile, the Simon Kenton basketball team found itself without a gym to practice or play in. They ended up practicing all over Northern Kentucky....

State and federal agencies investigated the explosions at Simon Kenton. The National Transportation  and Safety Board  blamed the gas company at the time, Union Light, Heat & Power – a subsidiary of Cincinnati Gas & Electric. A utility crew had mistakenly hooked a high-pressure main gas line to the school a few weeks before. At the same time the utility was testing the line,  the school turned on the heat during a cool October spell. Gas then escaped and ignited in the school."

https://www.wcpo.com/news/our-community/from-the-vault/from-the-vault-simon-kenton-high-school-turns-tragedy-to-triumph-after-1980-gas-explosions-fire

1 hour ago, ConverseAllStar said:

* for all-male schools like St. X, Trinity . . . multiply their enrollment by two?

Right.

Those 5 schools, the "biggest in the state" have the following total enrollments/boys enrolled:

1.  Lafayette:  2440/1214

2.  Madison Central:  2225/1125

3.  Eastern:  2043/1111

4.  Henry Clay:  2036/1028

5.  Ballard:  2020/997

Meanwhile, St. X has 1090 boys, and Trinity has 1173.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Royals and Saints Fan said:

Dang you are good!  We need someone in the 10th like you (and its not me).

Yes, between Adrian and ColonelMike, the coverage of 8th Region basketball here is really good.

1 hour ago, Adrian Woj Burner said:

I have posted this before, with every teams size in the region and how much success they have had. 

The 2nd largest school (Oldham County) is by far the most succesful school in region history. They have been nothing short of dominant in their district and the region. I do not have all of the numbers in front of me, but they are at home on my desk. 

If I am not mistaken, almost every regional title came from the top-6 biggest schools in the region. I will add up the numbers later tonight. 

Adrian, I'll paste here your very informative post from earlier this month:

8th Region follower @Colonel-Rebel Fan had a great idea of correlating region success to size. He came up with the idea of covering some of the most successful small school, and most successful and unsuccessful big schools. I began to work on it last night, and realized that there was too many options, so I have decided to do every single team.

 

Here is the student enrollment according to KHSAA for each school currently in the 8th Region, in order.

1.Simon Kenton – 1866

2. Oldham County - 1663

3. South Oldham - 1342

4. Woodford County - 1305

5. Anderson County - 1193

6. Collins - 1183

7. Grant County 1079

8. Shelby County - 1001

9. North Oldham - 996

10. Spencer County - 992

11. Henry County - 625

12. Carroll County - 574

13. Owen County - 557

14. Walton-Verona - 549

15. Gallatin County - 494

16. Trimble County - 358

17. Eminence - 264

18 - Williamstown – 227

 

Here is how we are going to do this; I am breaking it down into 3 sperate quadrants. The big dogs being teams 1-6 on the list above, quadrant 2 is the middle pack, and quadrant 3 is the 6 smallest schools in the region. The lists of each quadrant will not be in order of school size, but in the order of success (in my eyes) in the postseason. I only went as far as regional play; I did not get into state tournament play. Also, stats in the post date back to 2000-01 season, I did not have the time to get the seasons before that completed. If you pay attention throughout, the numbers of wins, titles, and appearances all go down. Goes to show that for the majority (with a few exceptions) size of school really can matter.

NOTE: This is only from the 2000-01 season and on, I feel that my wording in some of this does not imply that. Do not want readers to get confused when reading.

 

Quadrant 1 – The Big Dogs

These are the 6 biggest schools in the region. In the last 22 seasons, this group has help 15 of the 22 regional titles. There have also been 44 district titles between the 6.

1 – Oldham County (#2 in enrollment)

There is without a doubt Oldham County has been the standard for 8th Region basketball since the 2000-01 season. They have been nothing short of dominant, and we have become used to hearing their name when it is basketball time at “The Roy”. They have only missed the regional tournament 3 times in this stretch.

District Titles: 16

Regional Appearances: 19

Regional Wins: 36

Regional Titles: 8

 

2 – Collins Titans (#6 in enrollment, wasn’t established until 2010)

I was stuck between putting South or Collins here since their numbers are extremely similar, but with Collins only being a school for half of the time as South, I decided to put them in the 2 spot.

District Titles: 6

Regional Appearances: 12

Regional Wins: 14

Regional Titles: 3

 

3 – South Oldham (#3 in enrollment)

While south has not been anywhere close to successful as their inter-county rival Oldham County, they fall right behind them in many statistics in this thread. Coach Steve Simpson (the longest tenured coach) has had a ridiculously successful career at South, and these numbers just prove it.

District Titles: 5

Regional Appearances: 17

Regional Wins: 17

Regional Titles: 3

 

4 – Anderson County (#5 in enrollment)

I assume it is because of recency biase, but the Bearcats have had an impressive history since 2000-01. They might not have the same number or championships or wins, but have appeared a ton of times in the regional tournament, only missing 7 seasons in the last 22.

District Titles: 6

Regional Appearances: 15

Regional Wins: 11

Regional Titles: 1

 

5 – Simon Kenton (#1 in enrollment, joined 8th Region in 2005-06 season)

This team is what brought up this idea, and it wasn’t for the good. The Pioneers thought that they would dominate the region when moving in years ago, but it has not been the game at the regional level. They have won many district titles and appeared in the region many times, however they only average just over .5 wins when they are in the tournament.

District Titles: 10

Regional Appearances: 15

Regional Wins: 8

Regional Titles: 0

 

6 – Woodford County (#4 in enrollment, joined 8th Region in 2019-2020 season)

This team just does not have enough time to tell their tape. This is just their 4th season in the region, but their numbers in the last 3 seasons are not anything to harp on.

District Titles: 1

Regional Appearances: 2

Regional Wins: 2

Regional Titles: 0

 

 

Quadrant 2 – The Middle Pack

This is the middle pack, and about halfway through these teams you will see a drastic drop off in performance. The two teams that do not compare to the others in student enrollment numbers are Carroll County and Henry County, but the two teams compared to each other are extremely different in these numbers.

1 – Shelby County (#8 in enrollment)

This was a hard one to judge, because if you do the first 11 seasons they are proably top-5 in the entire region, however since the establishment of Collins, they are bottom of the barrel. Since Collins was created in 2010, they only have 1 district title and 2 regional appearances, with 0 wins in the regional tournament. I decided to put them at 1 based off their total numbers.

District Titles: 8

Regional Appearances: 11

Regional Wins: 17

Regional Titles: 3

 

2 – North Oldham (#9 in enrollment, est. 2003)

They missed a couple years to begin the season, and with that puts them in the 2 spot instead of 3. They have blasted onto the regional scene in the last few years and won their first ever regional championship last season. I think the craziest stat to me was their district title numbers, in which they are looking to improve this season.

District Titles: 2

Regional Appearances: 8

Regional Wins: 8

Regional Titles: 1

 

3 – Grant County (#7 in enrollment)

I really wanted to put this team at #2 in this quadrant with the amount of appearances, but the lack of wins and no regional championships dropped them down the #3 in my eyes. The Braves are in the running for an appearance at Rupp Arena this year, but aren’t guaranteed to even make it out of the region.

District Titles: 3

Regional Appearances: 12

Regional Wins: 5

Regional Titles: 0

 

4 – Henry County (#11 in enrollment)

I was really surprised by the number of regional appearances this team has, as I feel that I never get to see them play in their home gymnasium (the famous Roy), but they have struggled to get anything going once they make it to the regional tournament.

District Titles: 2

Regional Appearances: 10

Regional Wins: 2

Regional Titles: 0

 

5 – Spencer County (#10 in enrollment)

With as good as they have been for the last 4-5 seasons, I was really let down by their numbers in these categories. It appears the Bears are solid every year recently but struggle to convert when tournament play rolls around.

District Titles: 1

Regional Appearances: 2

Regional Wins: 3

Regional Titles: 0

 

6 – Carroll County (#12 in enrollment)

There are not many words to describe the Panthers history since the 2000-01 season, and it seems to only be getting worse. For the majority of time, they have competed in what many would say the easiest district in the region, but struggle even in district tournament play only making it to the district championship one time.

District Titles: 0

Regional Appearances: 1

Regional Wins: 0

Regional Titles: 0

 

 

Quadrant 3 – The Little Boys

This group is fun, there are the bottom 6 school’s enrollment wise, but a few of them are always capable of making some noise in regional tournament play. There are 3 teams in this section that have been incredible when putting their enrollment numbers into consideration, and the other 3 did just as expected: not very good.

1 – Gallatin County (#15 in enrollment)

Now retired Coach Jon Jones was always an extremely feared coach when tournament time came around. His reign at Gallatin County was nothing less than impressive, and these numbers will prove just that. The one thing that he was never able to accomplish was a regional title but came close multiple times.

District Titles: 8

Regional Appearances: 13

Regional Wins: 8

Regional Titles: 0

 

2 – Walton-Verona (#14 in enrollment)

The Bearcats have one thing that no one else does in this quadrant: a regional championship. Led by 7-footer Dionte Miles, they were able to win the only championship this group has had since the 2000-01 season. Going up against the biggest school in the region each year on the district level never made their path to the regional tournament easy, but they still found a way to get it done. The one thing interesting to me was that Walton-Verona has not won a regional game outside of 2019 when they won the tournament.

District Titles: 5

Regional Appearances: 12

Regional Wins: 3

Regional Titles: 1

 

3 – Owen County (#13 in enrollment)

Being the biggest school in this group, the Rebels are expected to perform well. They have done just that ar the district level, winning many championships and obtaining multiple regional appearances, but struggle at the regional level. With the amount of talent that has come through this program (the Williams’ brothers and Teagan Moore) these numbers almost make me feel like they have underperformed.

District Titles: 7

Regional Appearances: 10

Regional Wins: 4

Regional Titles: 0

 

4 – Eminence (#17 in enrollment)

This is where the numbers really begin to drop off. From here down to the bottom (also the 3-smallest schools in the region), there has not been a single regional tournament win, and not a single district title.

District Titles: 0

Regional Appearances: 2

Regional Wins: 0

Regional Titles: 0

 

5 – Williamstown (#18 in enrollment)

This school is the smallest in the region, and their numbers prove just that. They have struggled year after year, but Coach Cheeseman is looking to turn that around in the coming years.

District Titles: 0

Regional Appearances: 1

Regional Wins: 0

Regional Titles: 0

 

6 – Trimble County (#16 in enrollment)

This really is not fair, being in the same district with 3 of the biggest schools in the region until the 2020-21 season where they moved to the small school (31st) District. Even after moving to this district 3 years ago, the Raiders are still yet to get close to the regional tournament.

District Titles: 0

Regional Appearances: 0

Regional Wins: 0

Regional Titles: 0

 

Sounds like Larue hasn't missed Boley a whole lot.  We played them just last year - and I don't even remember the Allen kid (which, yes, says more about me than him).  How big is he?  Can he play at the next level?

12 minutes ago, 4 Quarters said:

I agree with your thoughts, big isn't always better.  Lexington Lafayette is one of the largest schools in the Commonwealth, when was the last time they won their District?

According to info on the KHSAA website, these are the 5 biggest schools in the state:

1.  Lafayette

2.  Madison Central

3.  Eastern

4. Henry Clay

5.  Ballard

If that was the only data point, a reasonable person would be skeptical about the relationship between enrollment and basketball success.  But I'm resistant to that skepticism, for some reason......

 

I’ll go with the obvious chalk picks:  North, Woodford, SK and Collins, with North beating Collins in the final.  By the way, I thought Amburgey’s injury is the knee, rather than ankle?  

1 hour ago, 4 Quarters said:

I'm having trouble here,  all I've heard all year is Green and Amburgey for Oldham County.  Their record is 16 and 15, likely to end the season 16 and 16.  Can someone explain?

I’ve got good friends in that program, so it doesn’t bother me (I’m a glass mostly full kind of guy and the typical negativity you see online/social media wears me out).  That said, there’s been something of a disconnect this year on this board between the perception of OC and its actual results.  It’s as though folks know what OC typically is and refused to believe what their eyes were seeing……

I’ll take Bardstown, E-town, Taylor County and LaRue County, with E-town beating LaRue in the title game.  Although that seems like a toss-up…..

2 hours ago, deepthreejack said:

Perhaps Mojocat could elaborate as to which of these performances were North Oldham’s best that sets them apart from everyone else in the region?

To that point have we even seen Woodfords best?  

Would be nice to see a tourney where every team only played their best.  Doesn’t happen.  Don’t think for a second North wouldn’t prefer the district championships went chalk.  

 

Sure.  I'd point to that Central Hardin score - CH is one of the favorites to win the 5th Region, and North beat them by 34.  Also Lyon County - the obvious choice to win the 2nd.  North demolished them by 34.  Lyon gives up on average 63 points a game, and that 107 by North is a full 22 points more than they've given up to anyone else.  And then the OC game Friday - they won by 20, but it was not that close.  North was up 59-22 after 3 quarters, with a running clock.  And those 3 are just from among the handful I've seen in person.  They are pretty good, and they have all played together for years, since the 5th grade.  They won the region last year - it's almost like they get bored at times.  Levitch is good at punching that particular button.  First time I saw it was in the Region finals last year against Woodford.  That was a seemingly pretty even game; in fact, Woodford may have been favored, as they had 5 losses coming in to North's 12.  And the score at halftime was, I think, North Oldham 45 Woodford County 19.  

On paper, at their very best, I just think they are head and shoulders better than anyone else in the 8th Region.  But as we know the games aren't played on paper.  That 'turn it on, turn it off' approach can definitely bite you in the butt in a one-loss-and-you-go-home scenario.  

2 hours ago, Adrian Woj Burner said:

The draw will be tomorrow at 2pm. 

District Champions:
North Oldham
Woodford County
Gallatin County
Simon Kenton

District Runner-Ups:
Oldham County
Collins
Owen County
Grant County

 

Is it fair to say that the runner-ups might be stronger than the champions? I believe that if you look at success throughout the entire season it is a fair statement. However, with the return of John McCrear for Woodford County it might give the champions a little boost in strength. 

When North Oldham is at its best, it is so much better than any other team that, by itself, it defeats your point.  Otherwise, I would probably agree.

And I believe the 5th Region also draws on Sunday……

55 minutes ago, Mack The Knife said:

Griffin had tied the game at 60 with a 3 with 10 seconds left. After an Owen turnover Griffin hit the shot.

Wow.  What a night for that young man.  He’ll relive that for decades.

2 minutes ago, 4 Quarters said:

I don't know about the son, but was at Meade County after SK.

I thought so.  Meade was in the district I played in (17th District/5th Region, although at some point they moved to the 3rd Region).  Always thought that was a weird path - going from SK to Meade.  Especially since he won a title at SK.  There’s a decent chance he didn’t care what I thought about that.  Probably.

41 minutes ago, NEERFAN said:

Larry Miller, SK's coach from the 1981 title made the game tonight. 

Isn’t that the same Larry Miller who coached at Meade County in the 80’s (and whose son played at Marquette)?  

48-16 midway thru the 3rd.  North does this occasionally.  They’re good enough, and have played together long enough, that they can coast at times.  First time I saw them turn it on this way was in the regional final last year, an absolute blitzkrieg of Woodford.   They turned up the heat against South earlier this year - that was personal for them.  And tonight.  Oh, and in the KOTB vs Lyon County…..