Ashland

Since 2010 there have been 36 champions in KY. 12 have been public, non-independent schools 24 have been either private or independent school districts 2/3 of all champions. This is reality. Saying publics could / should do whatever is pointless. The results speak for themselves. Privates and Independents are different than public schools and should compete against each other. 5 of those 12 public school championships were in class 3a from 2010-2014 when there was no dominant independent or private program in the class. 1 of those 12 was in class 4a in 2015. There are no dominant independents or privates in 4a in the current structure. So basically, excluding classes without independent or private schools, publics have won 6 of 30 available championships. It's also worth pointing out that the year Scott County won 6a (2013) neither Scott Co or Meade Co beat Trinity or St. X. (kudos to Scott for beating male).

The public / private - independent conversation wasn't the point of this thread. It's not what I was proposing. I think it's a good idea to split them, but I'd rather have a 3 class system, even if privates / independents stay in with everyone else. Also, looking at the three class system, I could see Male winning the big class, Central, Boyle, Belfry winning the middle class. The small class would always be won by the independents / privates though.

They should not have to do things that aren't good for their district's academics / financial viability just to compete with privates / independents in football. Privates / independents should compete against each other for state championships. Where is the fun in beating people who have very little chance against you?

If they aren't unique to privates and independents why do they almost always make up over half of state championship participants while only making up a small portion of total schools playing football. They clearly have advantages. Saying public schools (often with multiple high schools in a district) can do the things they can do is simply wrong.

Not playing is not feasible. You'd be killed by parents, AD, the other coach, probably the KHSAA, etc. The fact that nobody does it should illustrate that point clearly enough.

Many of the round one games in the current structure are essentially meaningless. Many, many teams do not want to be there. They have to travel 3+ hours, get a running clock put on them, and lose by 50+. Russellville 67 Ft Knox 0 a good example.

It depends on what you mean by competitive. Could South Warren, Owensboro, or Pulaski win the class? I don't think so. Would the competitiveness of the class as a whole increase? Absolutely. Outside of T/X/Male the three teams listed could play with anyone else - competitively.

Hard to justify Highlands based on school size. They'd have to choose to play up, or we'd have to go to a system based on success / number of players.

I see a difference in public districts allowing students to go wherever they wish in district and independents / privates being able to take anyone, anytime.

Yes, in general, I'm fine with the private / independent class being very small in comparison to the other group. Their needs should not mean that everyone else has to compete in an inherently unfair system. They can still play the other teams - just not in district / playoffs.

Who would ever say Brossart should be in the same class as X / T? Big Private: X, T, Cov Cath, Lex Cath (add BG, Highlands, Owensboro as independents if you want) Small Private: Everyone else

I agree. In many ways being independent is even better than being private. If there were 6a independent schools, I suspect they would win big. Also, who are these county schools who accept kids across state lines? Is that legal?

Out of district tuition at Highlands is an example. Only 5k per year. For comparison, tuition at Trinity is 13k. http://www.fortthomas.kyschools.us/userfiles/92/my%20files/student%20services/tuition%20criteria%20new%20with%20application.pdf?id=3607 http://trinityrocks.com/images/pdffiles/TrinityTuitionAndFees.pdf

Independents often allow out of district students to attend their schools. They do this while only charging a fraction of what a private school would, so essentially they get to act as a private school (no set district limit) while not having the steep barrier of high tuition. If an independent district doesn't allow out of district students (full stop), I have no problem with them.

Holding tryouts and only picking kids you want is what I mean by cuts. So that wouldn't be allowed.

I think you put it on the schools. They state the are / aren't cutting kids. The KHSAA spot checks randomly or when allegations of cutting are made. Tricky for sure.

One option that I've heard a few times is to base classification on total roster size 9-12 over a four year average, rather than on total male population. Obviously schools would try to game this by cutting players. To combat this, you could make a rule that if you cut players, you are classified one class higher than you would be if you did not cut players. Possible that this method would provide a more balanced system.

2015: actually had 6 i screwed up. Got mixed up on Belfry, so all my #'s are 1 off. Pikeville, Beechwood, BG, mayfield, Newport Catholic, Lex Cath

My original proposal has publics, privates, and independents together. In regard to your comment about competition, I do, but the advantages that privates and independents have over public schools makes competition, in most cases, almost impossible. The numbers clearly show this is true.

The numbers indicate otherwise. Below is the # of independents / Privates / Total of the two in the state final game since 2010 (12 total spots available each year) 2015: 6 / 2/ 8 2014: 5 / 3 / 8 2013: 5 / 2 / 7 2012: 5 / 2 / 7 2011: 6 / 2 / 8 2010: 4 / 3 / 7 This shows that Independents and Privates are not on the same playing field as other schools, regardless of size. They compose more than half of state final participants every year. They need to be in their own league.

Here's how it looks with around 16 districts per class rather than 8. This should help alleviate the concern about schools being able to schedule tougher or weaker opponents as they desire. The school cut off at the bottom is Somerset.

They'd also have Cooper, Ryle, and Simon Kenton in district. Based on that, I doubt they'd get to play X/T/Male.

I'd agree with that if independents are in that class too. They have many of the advantages the privates enjoy but don't have to charge the huge tuition privates do.

Wouldn't Belfry just bump into the 4a class with Clay County? Your point is still valid though. Could you keep them in their current class district in regular season and then put them in the higher class just for the playoffs? That might cause issues.

I agree. You'd at least have to say you have to win 2 in 4 years or something like that to avoid this situation. At the same time, how many times has a small, senior heavy school come out of nowhere to win a state championship in Ky? It's usually the same 6 teams every year. Maybe an exception could be made for class 1A schools.