Kingfish Stevens

I know most of you on BGP are Private School Supporters :fight: and feel the need to demonize :fire: someone from the public side, but what in the world does Mr. Sears have to do with this thread?

 

Thank you,

:bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:

You must be new. Sears has worked hard to make himself the baffoon of BGP and Kentucky high school athletics. He has succeeded. Any time an issue, legitimate or not, arises concerning a private school, he puts on his Don Quixote outfit and goes out to battle the windmills.

Alot of teams are going to love playing Russell this year. Home or away.

Maybe even your boys can beat them for a change.

Rocks might be starting to roll just a little bit... :sssh:

Let's hope so.

I heard from a Cincinnati source that Baker was interviewed solely as a politically correct gesture and nothing more.

As they say,westsider, ignorance is bliss. Enjoy the bliss.

Goodbye, westsider. This is obviously an exercise in futility. Let's just see how it all works out a few years down the line.

I was told by a couple of well informed sources that Greenup County and Bath County were likely to meet in the David Garnes Memorial Tournament at Rose Hill. However, Greenup's "leadership" put a stop to that. I'll bet Coach Hicks would have enjoyed the challenge.

I remember a lot of talk that Time Warner was cutting the payroll after they bought the team from Turner.

Or maybe it's just like he said ... he's tired of the GM grind after 25 years of it and at age 67.

From a money standpoint, perhaps ... not from a talent-given-up standpoint.

As I pointed out at the time of the trade and again in this thread, Schuerholz has rarely traded a minor leaguer that amounted to much as a major leaguer. Maybe the prospects will work out for Texas, maybe they won't. But you have to give up something of value to get a guy like Teixeira.

Time Warner did slash the payroll. And, from all indications Liberty may do even more. When Schuerholz had the purse strings of the Yankees and RedSox, he did well. When he had to work from the middle of the pack; but still far from the Pirates, Royals, and Marlins of the world; he didn't fair near as well. I have posted the downward spiral of the team since 1999. When he put it all together, Schuerholz figured his 67 years of age was a material matter.

You are correct that you cannot truly analyze a trade until it all plays out. The Teixeira trade is a good example. The Braves, by their own admission, traded the future in order to win now. The first evidence is in and the trade did not produce a berth in the playoffs. The team's winning percentage was just about the same before the trade as after the trade.

Teixeira produced some good numbers. However, if you examine the timing of that production, you will conclude that his efforts resulted in no more wins than his failures in the clutch resulted in losses. In other words, impressive numbers which were a wash in wins and losses.

Now the Braves have Teixeira for one more year. If the trade is good, we should see Teixeira lead the team to the playoffs. Personally, I'll bet otherwise. Also the Braves get to bargain with Scott Boros who will demand an obscene contract for Teixeira to remain a Brave after next season. With their budget, the Braves cannot afford to empty the coffers for a first baseman (cheaper but productive first basemen are not rare).

As for what the Braves sent to the Rangers, time will tell. However, the odds of at least one or two of these guys succeeding longterm are very likely. For example, is there any team who wouldn't like to have Saltalamacchia who is just 22 and is a switch hitting catcher with good defensive skills and excellent power potential? And, two of the three pitching prospects are lefthanded (a rare commodity) including Harrison who was the Braves #2 prospect just behind the 18 year old shortstop Andrus (He hit .300 after the trade because he got out of the pitching dominated Carolina League).

I think that it is obvious that the odds were clearly in favor of the Rangers prior to the trade and, so far, the happenings since the trade support that conclusion.

KHSAA bylaws specifically state that anyone associated with the program can not openly recruit for athletic purposes. That's anyone from administration, faculty, staff, coaches (whether volunteer or otherwise) AND parents.

 

To me, that's impossible for a coach to enforce and the KHSAA to monitor. I guess they see it as 'lack of institutional control' but heck, some times coaches can't control the kids much less the parents...

Excellent points. It is not possible for schools to control the actions of everyone who is somehow "associated" with the program. The KHSAA rule is unrealistic when it extends beyond coaches and school employees.

I would venture a guess that every school is guilty of violation of this rule. Of course, we all suspect that some are moreso than are others. However, those schools seem to dodge scrutiny.

Johnny Bush, Alex Malloy or Nate Quackenbush

Won't two of those three start with Euton, Jackson, and Fuller? Is there someone else at #4?

Let's not overreact. This could well amount to much ado about nothing. If every school were punished that has "representatives" trying to "attract" kids from other schools, the KHSAA staff would not have time for a restroom break. And, the proportion of government schools to private schools doing it is at least equal to the ratio of government schools to private schools in Kentucky.

Are there any Catholic or other legitimate private high schools in Clark County, Indiana? I don't believe so. That should be mentioned.

I'm not even going to consider that anything she says is remotely accurate. She is a complete fool and I personally can't even stand to look at her. I can't even stand to hear her voice. The thought, even the name Coulter, makes me want to vomit.

It is clear that you don't buy Coulter's books. I suggest that, right or wrong, she and many preachers are singing from the same page of the hymnal. And, from some I have heard, her mode of operation isn't much different from that used by the men in the pulpit. She just says it on television.

Personally, I believe Hillary is far more dangerous to the country and traditional values than is Coulter. Coulter is really, after all, harmless.

Turner set a cap. Plain and simple and if you look back at their payroll that did go over a certain number and I'll have to find it.

 

 

 

The main reason he is leaving though is there are rumors that Liberty Media will mandate a deep cut in this year's $89 million payroll.

That could be difficult since the club is already committed to John Smoltz ($14 million), Tim Hudson ($13 million), Chipper Jones ($12.3 million) and Mike Hampton ($15 million) in 2008 and also needs to sign Mark Teixeira to a long-term deal to justify trading top prospect Jarrod Saltalamachia to get him.

Regardless of what might have been said, Turner's "cap" was flexible. He was willing to spend more if he could be convinced that the end would likely justify the means. The present owners are not so willing and no one knows it better than does Schuerholz. In reality, it could be said that much of the Braves's success was because of Turner's pocketbook and good scouting.

Your post seems to suggest that Schuerholz, rather than facing a tough challenge, chose to move upstairs. I would agree. Rather than tackling the situation head on, he chose to preserve his "reputation". While most would probably do the same, a "great" GM wouldn't. He would accept the challenge.

You are correct in your analysis of the problem facing the Braves. The Hampton fiasco was a monumental error that has negatively effected the

Braves for years. When you applaud Schuerholz for the moves that worked, you need to factor in the recurring devastation of the Hampton move.

You are also correct that the Braves can only justify the Teixeira trade by signing him to a longterm contract. However, agreeing to pay a first baseman between $15 and $20 million a year may not be wise. Also, it must be remembered that the Braves did not just give up Saltalamacchia. They also gave up their top two minor league prospects (Andrus and Harrison) as well as #8 (Jones) and #13 (Feliz) (both pitchers). In other words, the Teixeira trade may well turn out to be the biggest steal of the decade- for Texas.

What an idiot.

She is no idiot but she is controversial. She is blunt. However, is her theme really much different than that expressed by ministers in many fundamental Christian churches every Sunday? Haven't most of you who attend those services been given the charge to go out and "save" those Jews?

Think about it.

Postseason baseball is a crapshoot ... look at all the wild cards that have won World Series over the last few years, not to mention the 83-win Cardinals last year.

 

All you can ask of a GM every year is for him to put together a team good enough to make the postseason and have a legitimate chance to get to the Series ... Schuerholz and the Braves were remarkably consistent at doing exactly that.

 

You're wanting to blame Schuerholz for the postseason failures ... if there is blame to assess, it should go more to Cox and the players, I would think.

I agree with your last statement. However, teams are deemed "great" (a much overused word) or otherwise based upon winning the big games and the big titles. For example, in high school basketball, we have some regions that are usually dominated by one or two schools. However, they never perform well in the state tournament. We acknowledge their local success but we would never consider them "great".

If Schuerholz gets much of the credit for winning the divisional titles, he must also share the blame for the repeated chokes in the postseason. You don't get the wheat without the chaff.

My whole point is that I was pleased to hear that Schuerholz is quitting as GM. I am disappointed that he is merely moving up to president. I preferred that he move on. Wren will merely be an extention of Schuerholz. It should not be overlooked that, during the "run" of the Braves, Florida won twice as many World Championships. That is an important fact to blend into the mix.

The Braves often won the battle but nearly always lost the war. I find that to be less than satisfactory and far from "great". Thus, I think it is a misstatement to call Schuerholz a "great" GM. He was good, particularly in the early years, but not "great".

The money did not flow as easy as some think.

 

 

They were always one bat or pitcher away from winning a WS and it was because money.........

 

JS is one of the top MLB GM's of all tim

Care to elaborate about the flow of money?

It didn't seem to hurt the Braves, who only won the next eight division titles and averaged 97-98 wins per season in that span. Sometimes you have to give up players to be able to spend the money elsewhere, and the Braves did that pretty well.

Your last post indicates where we differ. You are impressed by the eight division titles from 1998 to 2005. I, on the other hand, see a string of eight years that produced only one trip to the WS (a 4 and out loss to the Yankees in 1999), two losses in the NLCS, and five losses in the first round. I also see that 4 of the 5 first round losses occurred in 2002 through 2005. I see no playoff berths in 2006 or in 2007.

Schuerholz may well be compared to Bush. His first "term" was acceptable and had many good spots. However, there are many failures in his second "term".

Apparently your expectations were less than were mine.

You also ended up with Tucker in right and Klesko in left which was far from optimum. Tucker proved to not be an everyday player and Klesko, though he played there, was a poor outfielder. Lofton, at least as a performer, was superior to either of them. Indeed, Andy was ready to take over in center. However, merely passing it all off as Andy replacing Lofton is less than a full story.

Still, it is all a matter of opinion and you have yours and I have mine. Since neither of us will budge, we probably need to leave it at that.

Website or book? The depth of knowledge is the same. You told me all I needed to know when you said that Lofton had "a heck of a year" and I am well aware that he hit .333 in his one year at Atlanta. The difference is that you know he hit .333 and I know the rest of the story. He didn't come back for a second year, did he?

I'll stand by my analysis and you can stand by your analysis. To some, the Braves are heralded for their 14 year run to make the playoffs. To many, they are known as the Buffalo Bills of baseball. Tony Kornheiser of ESPN recently stated that the Yankees were becoming the Braves. He didn't mean it in a positive way.

I agree with the dissenters. Not a good choice.

You could have mentioned Jason Schmidt, Marquis Grissom, David Justice, Paul Byrd, Mark DeRosa, Joe Borowski, and Jermaine Dye just to name a few. But, why quibble? You won't change my opinion nor will I change your opinion.

By the way, I don't need to use any reference books.

This is what the Braves gave up for the players you mentioned. I didn't list the Teixeira and Dotel trades because you can't evaluate those deals for a while because of the prospects involved.

 

Gary Sheffield: Brian Jordan, Odalis Perez, and Andrew Brown.

 

J.D. Drew: Jason Marquis, Ray King, and Adam Wainwright.

 

Kent Mercker: Matt Belisle.

 

Kyle Farnsworth: Roman Colon and Zach Miner.

 

Mike Hampton: Tim Spooneybarger and Ryan Baker.

 

Really now, how did those deals gut the Braves' farm system? The only players of real consequence in recent years that Schuerholz gave up were Odalis Perez (two or three decent years, and he's been awful recently), Jason Marquis (up and down his whole career) and Adam Wainwright, who looks like he has a bright future.

 

Most of the players that were of some value were already in the majors at the time of the trades.

 

I don't know any Reds fans that are all that high on Belisle, and Detroit seems in no hurry to put Miner in a major role.

 

You can criticize Schuerholz all you want, but he came out ahead on those deals.

You did a bit of "picking and choosing" but you are entitled to your opinion.

Actually, the success of the farm system is due to good scouting which lead to productive drafts and the leadership of men such as Paul Snyder. Schuerholz didnh't make those decisions.

No one would doubt the efforts of Schuerholz in the "early years". The money was flowing and limitless due to the ownership of Ted Turner. Free agent signings were plentiful and successful. There was no mortgaging of the farm system and young talent like the Jones boys, Lopez, Klesko, Furcal, etc. were allowed to develop and move up.

However, in the more recent years, the emphasis was on doing whatever was necessary to win "one more division". Therefore, without the endless dollars and free agent aquisitions, the youngsters were sacrificed for the one year (or less) rentals and temporary spot fillers like Drew, Dotel, Farnsworth, Mercker, Teixeira, Sheffield, and others. Trades like the Hampton trade were disasters. Of course, Schuerholz couldn't have foretold Hampton's injuries. Nonetheless, the result is still a disaster and the result is what counts.

Many agree with the approach used. If it had produced more WS championships, that would have been fine. However, it didn't and, in fact, the results diminished each year as the team lost out sooner and sooner in the playoffs. Now, for the last two years. No playoffs.

Money is tighter. The roster, particularly in regard to pitching, is questionable. There are no outstanding prospects down on the farm. The future is not promising for the Braves.

Go ahead and give Schuerholz an "A" for his early years. I would agree. However, regardless of the circumstances, he deserves no good grade for recent years.

Well, now it appears that he will "move up" to become president of the organization. If this is the result, and reliable information indicates that that is the case, my euphoria is dramatically reduced. Frank Wren will be the replacement as GM and he is, from all past history and present indications, a Schuerholz gopher. Too bad the Cardinal matter didn't prove to be true. Future talented Pelicans are apparently still in danger of becoming an extinct species as has happened with their predecessors.

I can't wait till Kingfish sees this thread. :walk::walk::walk:

Thank you for the lead in LRCW. I have been a supporter of the Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves since before the birth of most BGPers.

I am only sorry that Schuerholz didn't leave prior to emptying the farm system of most all of its top prospects.

Rumor has it that he may be headed to St. Louis. Keep in mind that he resigned. He did not retire.

At least, I can now follow the Myrtle Beach Pelicans with the knowledge that Schuerholz is no longer able to trade away our top prospects for more shortterm rentals like he has been so proficient at doing in recent years.

The cupboard has been cleaned out and the shelves are almost empty. One championship in fourteen opportunities doesn't add up to any measure of success. However, the cupboard thief is gone to which I add a hardy "amen".

I'm sure that some will take issue with my comments. I would only request that they be well informed.