Diogenes

Trinity will be fine against Cinn. X. It should be a long and difficult day for the Rocks, but ditto for Cinn. X. Reading the BGP 6A pre-season analysis and some of the knowledgeable Rock posters on this board leads to the conclusion that T is loaded and deep. So is Cinn. X. Regarding the game, can anyone inform us of areas of strength they expect one team to excel in? For example, is one team appreciably faster? Better coached? Stronger O-line? etc. Finally, would anyone venture a final score?

BTW, kudos to the Rocks for scheduling Cinn. X.

ram2003, I saw that 1959 Manual team play. They prevailed in a tight game against Flaget.

One of the impressive aspects of the article is that Cincinnati has one team ranked first pre-season and another between 15-20. Does Kentucky have any team in the top 25?

Biotech, Trinity will have a good Bowling Green under their belt as prep for the big game.

The new wishbone offense is going to surprise a lot of people.

Wishbone? I had heard they were going to a 2-3 zone!

X dresses as many as possible. Some kids share a number, dressing every other week.

Keep us posted on developments. Are there any specific youngsters that may be pleasant surprises for Trinity this year?

I was just there a couple of days ago and it looks good. It puts X in a group with Male and T. Manual's stadium has its own unique charm and atmosphere.

Male and T fans-does a stadium attract boys to a school? What are your thoughts?

I guess your right, poor little private school Qwensboro Catholic is still 2 A in 2007 while 2004 State champ, Belfry, and 2005 2A State champ Russell have moved up to 3A. The other thing I noticed is 6 out of the last 8 State champions have been private schools. So by looking at this ,you need to be a bigger public school playing smaller schools or be a private school.

Or, be a bigger private school playing smaller schools.:thumb:

Does anyone have information on this year's Male team? How many starters return? Best players? Strengths? Weaknesses?

Also, what is the general feeling about the 6A rankings? Would you say it is a three team race, two teams, or is it one team's to lose? Specify the teams, and if possible try to keep the X-T carping out of it. I know for some that is difficult.

What is your take, XgradROCKdad, on overall strengths and weaknesses? The already strong running game should be improved, I would imagine. The lb situation may be one of the state's best. Any other particular strengths? Any areas of concern?

As to increased numbers, success breeds success, and five titles in six years is pretty successful.

I anticipate the Stein youngster will be qb for the Rocks this year, and he will do a good job. If he plays anything like his pop (T grad) or his brother (X grad) Trinity will be fine at qb.

17 time, your observation regarding Manual is accurate. Unfortunately,

District-6-3 is comprised of Butler, DuPont Manual, Pleasure Ridge Park and St. Xavier. Butler's freshmen were loaded, and the remaining three have a very real chance of coming out on top of the district.

As much as I never liked Hornung back in the day (he got all the girls!) I have to give Best High School football player honors to him hands down. Most people don't realize he not only played QB at Flaget he also punted, kicked field goals, pats and even played some on defense, if it was a close game.

 

In College at Notre Dame he played QB, HB, DE, punted, kicked off, kicked FGs, kicked PATs and was on the kick off return team. In fact in his final College game against USC he ran back a kick of 95 yards playing with TWO broken thumbs. He won the Heisman in 1956 (how many others from KY have won the Heisman?)

 

His ability to "do it all" continued into the NFL...Most people don't realize he held the NFL record for the most points scored by an individual player in a single season for 46yrs until LaDaian Tomlinson broke it last year. Just an FYI the Packers only played 12 games in 1960 when it set the record and he played RB.

 

176pts Paul Hornung, Green Bay, 1960 (15-td, 41-pat, 15-fg)

 

I might even venture to say he played on the best NFL team that ever existed the 1961 Packers team. He was like a greek god among men when he was in High School, he in his high School prime against any of the others mentioned in theirs, its no contest. Between Brohm and Hornung, Hornung wins because of toughness alone. He took lickings and kept on ticking. NFL Player of the year twice in '60 and '61 thats an honor Brohm won't see twice. He will be a great one but he is not Paul Hornung, although Hornung himself has said Brohm is the closest to date.

 

As much as he got bad press for the booze the women etc there were things he did the press ignored that truly told you what kind of guy he was.He sold his Heisman Trophy for a quarter of a million dollars in order to endow scholarships for Notre Dame students. He urged the board of regents to loosen academic standards so more African American athletes could be accepted into Notre Dame, he warned them their football program would suffer if they continued with academic practices designed to exlude them.

What say you, Couch and Brohm supporters. Could your man match this Superman? He seems to have been a sort of Dickie Lyons or Michael Bush x 2 in that he did it all, and did it all very well.

TigerPaw18, do I remember correctly that he once drop kicked a field goal in the NFL to win a game? Proponents of other players (and often it is our heart. not head,speaking) has your guy ever drop kicked a field goal, much less in the NFL? Can you even still do this in football?

No less than Vince Lombardi said of Hornung:"Paul is tremendous down near the goal line. He's the finest man I've ever seen when he gets down there."

His Notre Dame coach, Frank Leahy, said of the 6 ft. 2 in., 215 Ibs Hornung: "He runs like a mower going through grass." "And his kicking—why, when he reported to me as a freshman, he could punt 80 yds. and place-kick over the crossbar from 70 yds. out."

2002 - For Brian Brohm 226/335 (67.5%), 3,777 yards, 47 TD's, and 1 INT

I have always said this is one of the most incredible sports stats I have ever seen.

footballfever, you have asked a fundamental question and an important question. So often questions of opinion elicit raging debates and the ground rules are not even understood. It is sort of like when guys debate about who is the greatest professional baseball or football or basketball player. Well, do you mean peak value, or do you mean career value? The same could be said of this question, and the posts above illustrate the myriad factors that may be taken into consideration in determining Mr. Football.

Does anyone know who votes on Mr. Football? It would be interesting to receive insight from one the voters. Also, is there a set of written criteria upon which the vote is based?

Below is the KHSAA list of past Mr. Football award winners:

PAST MR. FOOTBALL AWARD WINNERS

Player (School) College

1986 Frank Jacobs (Newport C. Cath.) Notre Dame

1987 Kurt Baber (Paducah Tilghman) Southern California

1988 Jeff Brohm (Trinity-Louisville) University of Louisville

1989 Pookie Jones (Calloway Co.) University of Kentucky

1990 Damon Hood (Warren Central) University of Kentucky

1991 Scott Russell (Evarts) Lees-McRae/Union

1992 Billy Jack Haskins (Paducah Tilghman) University of Kentucky / Rhode Island University

1993 Jeremy Simpson (Lincoln County) Cumberland College

1994 Shaun Alexander (Boone Co.) University of Alabama

1995 Tim Couch (Leslie Co.) University of Kentucky

1996 Derek Homer (Fort Knox) University of Kentucky

1997 Dennis Johnson (Harrodsburg) University of Kentucky

1998 Jared Lorenzen (Highlands) University of Kentucky

1999 Travis Atwell (Hancock County) Toledo/University of Kentucky

2000 Montrell Jones (Male) University of Tennessee

2001 Jeff Duggins (Boyle County) Alford State, NY

2002 Michael Bush (Male) University of Louisville

2003 Brian Brohm (Trinity (Louisville)) University of Louisville

2004 Curtis Pulley (Hopkinsville) University of Kentucky

2005 Micah Johnson (Ft. Campbell) University of Kentucky

2006 Douglas Beaumont (Male) University of Louisville

Male has had three Mr. Footballs. Trinity and Paducah Tilghman have had two Mr. Footballs. The list purports to show the college/colleges a player attended. I believe the entry for Montrell Jones should read University of Tennessee/University of Kentucky.

Good work, jimmyref.

CentreRocks, are you implying that our dear friends the KHSAA contrived the system for any other than environmentally correct, altruistic reasons? I am shocked.

I think I may join in.

Best really roll out the green/gold carpet if two of the staunchest (most staunch?) Rocks are visiting.

I didn't get to go today for the tour due to some other things that came up but hope to get over there next week. Will try and take pics as well for you all.

Well...it is difficult to imagine more pressing issues coming up than the TD tour and imprimatur of the X facilities!

Isn't that a mortal sin for a St. Agnes kid? Next thing you know a Brohm will go to St. X!!!

Just checked the Vatican's web page. You are correct that it is a sin, but only venial.

Particularly impressive is the fact that Central is playing against top teams with far greater male enrollments. X has another difficult schedule, and Trinity has upgraded their schedule. Neither of those two shirk opponents, but each plays teams with far fewer male students. Central is stretching up. BTW, I've not reviewed Cov Cath's schedule, but it is often difficult, and they also play X this year.

^ St. Xavier's #1 domination is from swimming, and that is more being frutuitous of locale, and the fact that most lakeside swimmers go to X...my father in law went to X (1959) swam for lakeside, and then went to the "real" St. Xavier as he likes to call it...so again, take pride in the swimming, but thank the fact that Trinity wasn't an option 100 years ago.

As was said many years ago in a Presidential debate- "There he goes again". All this chest puffing-then the truth. One guy thought X had only 3 more titles in its history than T. Then we learn it is around 133 to 30 or so. Another guy concedes that X has a higher ACT average, but all T students have to take the test. Turns out that at least 98% of X students go on to college. Another poster wants us to be aware that the National Merit winners were gifted to start with, and X really had little to do with the number of merit scholars. (Of course, turn this around-T gets talented football players and has little to do with developing state titles-and T posters would squeal to high heavens!). Several others want us to be aware that the X athletic dominance was old timey-modern day contests no longer favor X. Oops-the past 15 years has X with about a 47-15 advantage. At long last, RockPride no longer quibbles that X has not dominated even recently-but he informs us that "St. Xavier's #1 domination is from swimming". Well...subtract swimming over the last 15 years and the results- still X with about 32 KHSAA state titles and T with about 15. Now, if you subtracted tennis, wrestling, National Merits...down to football...but then, we have already conceded that Trinity is a football school.

Diogenes - See post 53 below -

 

Diogenes, I believe Trinity had 6 National Merit Scholars this past year to St. X's 8. I know the average ACT score was minimally higher at St. X over Trinity, however Trinity requires all students to take the ACT including those with learning challenges. This would drive the average down.

X finished behind T this year in Govenor's cup competition and Trinity had the the Number 1 economics team in the state - However I am not sure they "made" as much money as the X kids?

 

In addtion, the 100 year (exageration, but close) age advantage X has has surely run the numbers up on Championships. I applaud the Swimming team for their complete domination of the aqua world.

 

So as far as real world real time I wouldn't say we are in the rear view mirror.

 

By the way doesn't Manual smoke everyone in National Merit Scholars?

I was just yankin' your chain. It was a play on an exchange with RockPride long ago. Re: Four to one X advantage over T: See http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070523/NEWS0105/705231239/1060/NEWS0105

May 23, 2007. It was four to one this past year. As another example of X's academics, the X football team that lost to T in the state title game in 2005 had more National Merit scholars than the entire school of Trinity that year.

As to the 100 year advantage, that is why BuddyBW and I helpfully published stats for the last 15 years, so that canard can be laid to rest. Based on the above posts, with help from Trinity alum, it appears that over the last 15 years X has about 45 KHSAA titles, T about 17. So, really, even recently T has been far behind X in overall KHSAA titles. A closer contest may be X vs. Jefferson County. Maybe someone could run that stat. Any takers?

Sometimes I wonder why anyone would choose to go to Trinity over St. X. With all of the advantages X has in everything (but football titles), I'm befuddled why 350 to 400 kids each year make a huge mistake and go to Trinity. If only they had listened to the modest folks on Poplar Level, they wouldn't be making this huge mistake.

 

 

The dreaded "X qualifier" rears its ugly head again. This is getting absurd. Has Mike Glaser taken over your user account? We all know you can't beat an All-American. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Relax, my dear friend. As one of your brethren said earlier in the thread "What would this rivalry be without the banter?" When T supporters point out to the world over and over what a great football school T is, sometimes supporters of other schools (Male and X in this thread) take the opportunity to point out areas of their superiority. You just have to put on your big boy britches and go on.

Did anyone mention yet that X had four times more National Merit Scholarship winners this year than T?

Sometimes I wonder why anyone would choose to go to Trinity over St. X. With all of the advantages X has in everything (but football titles), I'm befuddled why 350 to 400 kids each year make a huge mistake and go to Trinity. If only they had listened to the modest folks on Poplar Level, they wouldn't be making this huge mistake.

 

 

The dreaded "X qualifier" rears its ugly head again. This is getting absurd. Has Mike Glaser taken over your user account? We all know you can't beat an All-American. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Relax, my dear friend. As one of your brethren said earlier in the thread "What would this rivalry be without the banter?" When T supporters point out to the world over and over what a great football school T is, sometimes supporters of other schools Male and X in this thread) take the opportunity to point out areas of their superiority. You just have to put on your big boy britches and go on.

Just out of curiosity why 15 years?.... instead of 5, 10, 20, 25, 125?

Nothing nefarious, XgradROCKdad. Five years seemed too short a window, twenty five too long. Some T posters made a point of X being around much longer, so I selected a time when both schools were in their maturity. But I invite anyone to dissect the numbers over 5 or 10 or whatever increment of years. It would shed more light on the discussion. I only had time for one analysis.

1) Don't give the useless "we have more overall titles than you" line; anyway 3 more overall titles in 100 years is pretty pathetic. 2) Don't confuse dicipline with academics. A more strict school doesn't mean the students are smarter. 3) Everyone knows Trinity High School is on top...Diogenes, with so many National Merit Scholars I had hoped you could do the math...01' 02' 03' 05' 06' =DYNASTY

I have given full credit a number of times to the fact that Trinity is a football school. Just look at Wikipedia. Notable alumni: Trinity-6 football, 1 baseball, 1 soccer. Notable alumni: X -27, including former congressmen, a leading scholar in Law and Economics, CEO's of some of the major corporations in the world, athletes, a former mayor, etc. And as I pointed out in an earlier post, in the last 15 years Trinity has won six state titles in football, while St. X has only won five. (Thank goodness for Brohm, right?)

What is the highest number of KHSAA sanctioned championships that T has won in a year? I think it is three, but wanted to get verification.

I cannot find more than three, although the KHSAA records are not presented in an orderly manner. I can tell you that in the last 10 years X has won at least five titles in one year at least twice.