ARC

June Buchannan School (JBS) lost to Letcher Central in the semi-finals of the 53rd District, 14th Region. No doubt the biggest upset so far. JBS was ranked top 10 in the state at times this season but fell apart against Hazard in the All A. They have beat LCC two times (both close) earlier in the season. Way to go LCC!

Sounds like they took a stepp in the wrong direction. Was this the first round of the District?

JBS is out, if that's what you mean. I wonder who missed all those freethrows and treys for JBS.

Stats:

LCC

24/30 FTs

21/41 FGs

7/15 3pts

Banks-26

Blair-17

Profitt-16

Longsworth-3

Reylonds-5

JBS

15/29 FTs

19/55 FGs

6/30 3pts

Clark Stepp-14

Clint Stepp-11

Cox-13

Short-9

Collins-7

Perfect example of why they are five players instead of two. 1000 assist? Second quarter, fast break, Stepp has the ball, TEAM MATE ahead of him OPEN, what does he do? Looks at him proceeds to the basket and turned it over. Guess that was assist 1001.....

I'd say that no one keeps track of his turnovers. It would be interesting to know who holds the record for the most turnovers in their KY high school career? And the most most missed shots for that matter.

56th District; Estill Co hit a three at the buzzer to defeat Owsley Co 65 to 62.

LCC by 6

JBS can not get caught up in the moment and try to rely on one man only.

They've relied on 'one man only' for more than 100 games straight. Can they change at the end?

Me head says jbs but me heart says LCC.

Going with heart not head...LCC by 3 is my prediction.

Cackling hit a three at the buzzer to win the game.

King, I agree both teams played hard! I recorded the game tonight and just went back to recheck the foul totals. I got a shot of the scoreboard at the end of the first half and at the end of the game. I realize that the score board could be wrong ( sometimes a foul might not get posted) but the board read as follows: 1st half Wolfe 8 fouls, Lee 10 fouls. 2nd half Wolfe 10 fouls, Lee 8 fouls. As I said King certainly could be right and the posted totals wrong but anyway thats why I thougt the foul totals were close.

Scoreboard only goes to '10'. Lee had 16 in the first half. Three starters benched due to fouls (Pelfrey, Charles, Campbell) for most of the second quarter.

Lee didn't play 'bad', just never got it together after the early fouls. In fact, in spite of all that, Lee was on the line for 2 free throws with about 9 seconds to go to tie the game.

WOLFE CO. 81, LEE CO. 78

LEE CO. — Drake 18, Taulbee 4, Charles

22, Campbell 9, Pelfrey 17, Wise 8.

WOLFE CO. — Campbell 14, Terrill 7,

Phipps 12, Hayes 14, Wilson 12, A. Graham 5, Dickey

10, Miller 3, P. Graham 4.

Lee Co. . . . . . . . . . . .23 19 14 22—78

Wolfe Co. . . . . . . . . .17 26 23 15—81

I presume that all regions have an 'all region' team. Apparently they aren't all announced at the same time.

Going against the odds and picking the Owls by 3. 8 seniors playing their potential last game is the difference here.

In the 14th:

Perry County Central on the positive side. Turned around about 1 month ago. I think they had won maybe 4 games. Now have won 6 of their last 8 games including wins over JBS and Knott Central.

JBS on the negative side. Took a dive in the first round of the All A Classic. Have not recovered since. Were once a top 10 team in the state, now are not a strong bet to get out of their own district, much less the 14th Region.

I really think that Lee has a 10 point better team, but the season hasn't bore it out. They have played two barn-burners. So, the Professor above is probably right.

Better check your stop watch....or get an electronic timing.

Gotta agree with you....a 4.5 should equate to 36" or better vert. Probably more near to a 40" vertical.

Not a great issue, but obviously something that not many are going to believe without seeing it honestly timed. Not knocking the kid though, he must be a great shooter. Hope he makes it in the D1 level.

Knott Co Central wins the 53rd, Hazard wins the 54th, Wolfe Co wins the 55th and Estill should win 56th unless they let Lee County control the clock.

Estill Co has shut up about the controversial clock incident, wonder why some of the fans want to keep stirring the mire.

PCC won the battle of the boards and finished on top. Charles had 30 for Lee.

I haven't kept stats., but I wish I knew them. Some parents may be uncomfortable asking the coach for stats, as they may think they would be under suspicion of only following their child or otherwise interfering. All you can usually find in the newspaper is points, which promotes the scoring mentality, and occasionally some mention of rebounds. But other things are interesting and helpful in understanding how players are contributing...FG%, FT%, rebounds, steals, turnovers.

I think that you hit the nail on the head. Lots of parents don't want to ask the coach. And lots of coaches don't want to tell the kids. I believe that stats are sometimes 'devalued' by a coach because it makes it difficult to explain some things.

The scientific approach to the game helps to pinpoint the actual strengths and weaknesses of both the team and the individual. Without stats, it is all based on 'perception'. Casual observation and facts are usually far different.

Having said all that, I hate to keep stats. Done it officially and unofficially, and can't enjoy the games. And parents aren't always keeping only little Johnny's stats either....they're sometimes keeping track of how many mistakes little Alex is making.

Stats are subjective, especially regarding turnovers and assists. Was it a bad pass or a poor 'catch'. (whoever was in full control of the last possession should be credited with the TO).

Let a roomful of statisticians watch a game film in real time (no pausing etc) and there will be quite a bit of diversity in the numbers. Let a roomful of parents do it secretly and there will be even more.

Points and freethrows are kept in the official scorebook and these are usually accurate. The rest are subject to interpretation.

Doesn't surprise me that he left Ferguson 28ppg of Elliott off the list. One he is not a senior, but I doubt he make his list next year. Best shooter in the State of Kentucky with the same range as Lofton. Against Raceland he hit a trey from 31 feet and consistently hits them from 25-27 feet. By the way, the 31 footer was not an end of quarter shot. It was with about 3 minutes left in the 3d quarter. He was a whole lot closer to half court than the three point line. He has incredible range on his jumper, beautiful form and rotation, and arch that draws rain sometimes!!!

 

And yes, I have seen Mack, Sloane, and Henderson play. Have not seen the kid from Barren.

Dakota Euton, Rose Hill, 6'8" soph can hit pretty consistently from way out. He may still be a bit streaky, but other teams guard him deep...just in case.

"Most important position on the floor is point guard. Not even close."

Whoever has possession of the ball most of the time is arguably the most important. The point guard will handle the ball every possession. Circular reasoning.

Wouldn't a bad point guard be the worst player on the floor?

In baseball the pitcher get credit for the win or loss. In football the QB does the same. So then why don't pg's get credit for wins and losses? Instead, the high scorers usually get the credit, pg or not.

He's lauding those 5 regarding passion, smarts and toughness. In reality, put those five together and they may not mix at all. I doubt that all 5would 'shine'.

In fact, how would they really do if they faced a Patrick Patterson caliber player in the paint? Give Patterson a decent guard and those 5 have their hands more than full.

Having said that, I don't think there is a player of Patterson's caliber playing high school ball in KY this year. (There was last year in WVA though)

Maybe that is Fields real statement....no truly outstanding paint players this year.

Apples and Oranges. Kobe and Shaq.

Didn't get to go, but from what I heard it was a very physical game. Charles sat most of the first half due to 2 early fouls (one pt at halftime). Again, local fans tell me that Magoffin all but used their fists. Lee missed a lot of free throws and some easy shots inside. Lee's Drake hit some big free throws in OT to ice the game.

LEE CO. 57, MAGOFFIN CO. 51 (OT)

MAGOFFIN CO. (6-17) — Hunley 2, Francis 6,

Minix 4, Marshall 5, LeMaster 11, Sparks 14, Shepherd

9.

LEE CO. (12-10) — Drake 6, Taulbee 5, Charles 19,

Campbell 6, Pelfrey 17, Wise 4.

Magoffin Co. . . .9 9 14 15 4—51

Lee Co. . . . . . . .9 8 19 11 10—57

The KHSAA revised the lists to reflect the top 10 totals. I see nothing wrong with it.

Revised to include the top 11 in the case above.

Nothing wrong with 'cleaning out the files' in normal housekeeping. But look closely and you will see that it looks like this particular record has been 'messed with' (deliberate or erroraneously I cannot say). Some records dating back to 1956 (Pikeville vs Phelps) qualify but were removed anyway. And 2 "Wolfe vs Powell" records appear...one from 1966 and one from 1999. That seems strange.....

The "minimum attempted" entry level was changed from (50) to (55), which effectively served to remove Powell County from the book several times.

If there were a few revisions in order to reduce the embarassing number of times that ONE school was involved in a 'worrisome' stat, then I am just pointing out the strangeness of it.

A second glance with the current records reflecting the recent changes:

RECENTLY REVISED:

Most Free Throw Attempts - Game (Min. 55)

# School vs. Opponent, Year/Date (A/M)

89 Powell Co. vs. Shawnee, 1972 (70/89)

ADDED -66 Edmonson Co. vs. Cumberland Co., 2-7-03 (52/66)

63 Cordia vs. Powell Co., 11-21-89

61 Dayton vs. St. Henry, 1991 (45/61)

59 Bell Co.vs. Evarts, 3-6-01 (45/59)

57 Calloway Co. vs. Lone Oak, 2001 (46/57)

ADDED-57 West Hopkins vs. Trigg Co., 2-3-79 (41/57)

ADDED-56 Powell Co. vs. Wolfe Co., 12-10-99 (40/56)

REMOVED-55 Pikeville vs. Phelps, 1956 (41/55)

55 Powell Co. vs. Madison Central, 1980

55 WesT Hopkins vs. South Hopkins, 1-7-71 (38/55)

ADDED-55 Wolfe Co. vs. Powell Co., 1966 (44/

BLOCK REMOVED- (REVISED MINIMUM TO '55' INSTEAD OF '50)

54 Webster Co. vs. Providence, 1965

54 Powell Co. vs. Lexington Catholic, 1971 (47/54)

54 Webster Co. vs. Graham, 1983

52 Henderson Co. vs. Hopkinsville, 1-21-00

51 West Carter vs. Menifee Co., 11-26-94

51 Cordia vs. Powell Co., 11-27-90

51 Powell Co. vs. Hazel Green, 1971

51 Powell Co. vs. Model, 1967 (38/51)

50 Powell Co. vs. Madison, 1977

50 Powell Co. vs. Hazard, 1978 (N/A)

50 Powell Co. vs. Hazel Green, 1965 (37/50)

From the info available online, there is no way of comparing the 'pre-revision' record with the 'revised' record to see which stats changed in other catagories. I WILL SAY THIS...NO TEAM IN ANY CATAGORY WAS EFFECTED MORE BY THE REVISED STATS THAN POWELL CO WAS.

Powell was involved in 11 of the top 19 in the 'pre-revision' stats; 9 times scoring 50+ and 2 times opponents (Cordia) scored 50+ vs Powell. POWELL DOMINATES THIS CATAGORY

Powell is involved in 5 of the top 11 'revised' stats; 3 times scoring 55+ and 2 times opponents (Cordia and now somehow a 'new' Wolfe Co stat from 1966 has been added) scoring 55+ vs Powell. POWELL NO LONGER 'STANDS OUT' IN THIS CATAGORY.

Really it just 'caught my eye' that a bunch of Powell's records were eliminated from the bottom end of the scale. Now it appears that Powell is 'more in the normal range' than before. Not enough there now to 'raise an eyebrow'.

The revision didn't just narrow the records though, it both added to and took away from the 'pre-revised' stats. In fact, two 'NEW' records were added involving Powell- One from 1966 and one from 1999....BOTH INVOLVING WOLFE CO AND POWELL CO.

I know it's all much ado about nothing and that I have things that are 10,000 times more important to do than this, but it was on my mind. Fishy fishy ....

....Now, things like free throw records would be accurate, but the particular game with the record setting free throws would still have to be reported. Heck, for all we know some small school from the 1940s might have shot a 120 free throws in a game, but that hypothetical record has long since been lost or forgotten.....

Hypothetically true, but doesn't it make you feel kinda bad to throw a bad light on the fantastic free throw record set by Powell vs Shawnee?

Realistically, have you ever saw a game that came close to that free throw extravaganza? I wonder how many fouls were called? They shot 89 ft's. I'm sure that there were several 'pre-bonus' fouls that didn't result in shots. It would seem that there should have been at least 55 or 60 personal fouls called on Shawnee. Enough to foul out 10 or 12 players lol. I wonder how many players Shawnee brought with 'em?

That's a 'red letter' day over in Stanton and the last I heard Powell Countians were mighty proud of their accomplishment, so they just might take it personal if anyone challenges their record.

No, I really wasn't talking about the free throws...just making a generalized statement about stats reporting in general.

 

But hearing reports from way back when...it may be a safe bet to assume that a team out of region, really, really got hosed if that many free throws were shot. Didn't Powell Co. return the trip the following year and got drilled by the team they shot so many free throws against the year before?

 

Just what I heard.

Louisville Shawnee was ranked #1 in the state when the free throw record was set in Stanton. The next year when Powell played at Louisville I don't think that Shawnee needed much help.

Not to take anything away from actual records or any team listed above, but it's very common knowledge around the state that 'stats reporting' in basketball and football can be very, very fraudulent. Padded stats for individiuals are the most notorious, usually in the categories of rushing for football and rebounds for basketball.

Agreed, but free throw stats usually ain't padded.

Now I am interested in how many they made?

Most Free Throws Made - Game-One School (Min. 40)

# School vs. Opponent, Year/Date (Md. /Att.)

70 Powell Co., vs. Shawnee, 1972 (70/89)

52 Edmonson Co. vs. Cumberland Co., 2-7-03 (52/66)

46 Calloway Co. vs. Lone Oak, 2001 (46/57)

45 Bell Co. vs. Evarts, 3-6-01 (45/59)

45 Dayton vs. St. Henry, 1991 (45-61)

44 Wolfe Co. vs. Powell Co., 1966 (44/55)

41 Pikeville vs. Phelps, 1996 (41/55)

41 West Hopkins vs. Trigg Co., 2-3-79 (41/57)

40 Powell Co. vs. Wolfe Co., 12-10-99 (40/56)

40 Powell Co. vs. Madison Central, 1980 (40/55)

40 North Hardin vs. Adair Co., 1973

AGAIN, POWELL WAS IN MORE RECORDS HERE, BUT DROPPED OFF DUE TO REVISION OF MINIMUM MADE.

True.

Everyone has had their moments.

Hopefully things will get better by studying the past and pointing out obvious disparities.

There may be 'unsubitted' stats that would change the records, but that is merely speculation.

I would hope that blatant 'homering' would become an embarrassment to the home team. It does cheat the kids, and it ain't the kids that have did the cheating.

Kind of like gambling on sports and being involved in sports. It should be investigated at the high school level just like it is at the college and pro level.

I posted after the hazard game and mentioned the play at mid court at the end.But I also said in the very same post that Hazard hit the big shots and played hard and WON THE GAME FAIR AND SQUARE. I Believe Lee won over Estill fair and square and lost to Hazard fair and square

Same here.