PtownDude

Maybe Henderson would love their own region so the could make it to Rupp, doesn't look like their size has helped them in the 21st century yet.

Yes, poor ol' Henderson has only played in five of the last six regional championship games, twice losing to the second-largest school in the 2nd Region. However, Henderson went to state in 1990, 1996 and 1999.

Dawson Springs' last Sweet 16 trip? 1955. Lyon County? 1951. Caldwell County? 1964. Webster County? Never.

So get on me for my point of view, which I know will never change yours, but I assure you, that a lot of people who have fought the good fight, don't agree with the way it works now.

I think you did a pretty good job explaining your point of view. I think a lot of people have, even some that I don't agree with.

This used to be one of my favorite stats when Caldwell County was a member of the 5th District, with Crittenden County, Lyon County, Trigg County and Livingston Central: If you combined those five schools into one big school (I still haven't worked out a good name for it ) that school still wouldn't be as big as Henderson County.

That's the mountain that some small schools have to overcome in basketball, baseball, softball, soccer, volleyball, etc. Can't saying it can't be done, but it sure doesn't happen very often.

Point one-- No I don't think so, but my children who ran track and cross country would have welcomed the opportunity to compete against the larger schools. There are many athletes in the smaller school who would be competitive and yes even win in competition with the larger schools.

Point two--- my comments about the wants, wishes and dreams of the kids in the small schools were positive and I'll not answer questions of sarcasm.

1. The opportunity to compete and prove oneself against larger schools would still exist. It's called the regular season. But when it comes time to compete for a state championship, everyone would be competing against similar schools. Take the NCAA, schools who don't offer scholarships are still NCAA schools, they just compete at the Div. III level. No one would think of making those schools compete with Div. I schools for the national championship.

2. I'm also trying to take up for the smaller guys, but going to classes would not take anything away from the bigger schools either. They would still have just as much of a chance to win titles, maybe more, in classes. But right now, the larger schools are the only ones with a legitimate shot to compete at a state level. Why do some get that right but others don't? That's the traditionalist argument that I don't understand.

Again, FWIW, I was on the traditionalist side for a long time and I said the same things that have been said repeatedly on this thread. But, finally, it just came down to a matter or fair/unfair, right/wrong, and this is where it has led me.

If I asked all the football players or track athletes in Kentucky, would they say their medals and trophies are meaningless because they came in different classes?

How about basketball players from other states? Do they bury their trophies out of shame of "only" being the 1A or 2A or 3A champion?

I think some people might actually be surprised how some new blood could actually enhance the experience of the Sweet 16. And the big schools would still be there, there would just be some new schools in the lower classes who've never been.

Four classes and four championship games hardly seems a bore to me. Plus, that format could be played in three days instead of four, saving the KHSAA money and cutting into less school time for participating students. And nobody would have to play twice on the same day.

But I didn't complain, beacuse I knew that making it hard was what made it special to win.

But it's not hard for some schools to make it in basketball. That's the point. Some schools make the Sweet 16 5-6 times a decade or more. However, many more have never been.

I bet if you took that vote in the 2nd Region, only Henderson County, Christian County, Madisonville and Hopkinsville would vote for the status quo.

I would expect the other 11 schools to vote for change (R.I.P. Providence).

UHA (2005), Russellville (2001), and Fleming County (1998) were correct. I guess the small schools can root for a year then take three off.

I'm NOT rooting for UHA, if that's OK with you. :D

Seriously though, I think the debate on this thread is good.

I understand where those who want to keep just one class are coming from. I just don't agree with them.

And, I don't see things changing any time soon, FWIW. The KHSAA isn't that progressive.

You see that public high school in your community? THAT is the KHSAA.

Don't say that in front of the Caldwell County folks.:lol:

I don't think they would appreciate it. The Board of Control hasn't been kind the last couple of years.

It is not going to change, period. IMO: People from small schools always start talking about classification at this time of year. The state tournament is/was not designed to please everybody, nor should it. What makes it great is that everyone is trying to win ONE state championship trophy. Not everything in life is fair just because we want it to be and we shouldn't change the rules because we feel every kid should get a chance at the state championship.

If the rules are bad, why shouldn't they be changed? Life isn't fair, but the KHSAA could easily change the state tourney so it could be a lot closer to fair than it is now.

And no, not everyone is trying to win one state championship trophy. The best many schools can hope to do is get a favorable draw in the district, make the region and then get beat down by a much larger school.

If that's such a great tradition, why don't more states besides, what is it now, TWO?, have such a tournament.

I'm actually encouraged that there are actually a few people who agree with me that Kentucky should go to classes in basketball (and baseball, softball, soccer, etc.).

For the longest time, I thought I was the only one.

Maybe the state's 2A schools could all get together and have an All AA Classic.

My only complaint against the All A is that it is not a KHSAA sanctioned event. As far as the KHSAA is concerned, it's no different than the Paducah Tilghman Christmas Tournament.

As it stands now, the All A Classic merely placates the small schools and keeps the KHSAA from actually having to do something.

I'll be the first to admit that, for many years, I was whole heartedly with the traditionalists.

However, after covering high school sports for 20 years, I've seen far too many times the inequities in the current system, be it basketball, baseball, softball or whatever. And I'll agree, there's no perfect solution.

There was a time when the Dawson Springses of the world could compete with almost all other schools. Dawson won the 2nd Region title four straight years back in the 1940s. But that time has come and gone.

If I had my way, we'd have four classes for the public schools and a fifth class for private schools. I hardly think Kentucky high school basketball would become extinct under that scenario.

However, look around at many schools. I've been to games in recent years where I could have a conversation with someone on the other side of the court while the game's going on without raising my voice. Interest is down in many schools, especially the smaller ones. That includes players and fans. No one wants to put in all the time and effort basketball or any other sport requires to just get embarrassed by the bigger schools when it comes tournament time.

Contrary to some beliefs, the kids at larger schools don't necessarily work harder than those at smaller schools. Their coaches don't put in more hours. I'm not saying those involved at larger schools have less dedication. But all things being equal, the larger schools have a numbers advantage that simply can't be overcome on a realistic basis.

If the KHSAA came out with a rule that gave smaller schools a 20-point head start when they play larger schools, you can bet the larger schools would howl about unfair that was. But the larger schools have that much of a head start on smaller schools, maybe more, but the KHSAA sits back and does nothing.

The KHSAA should be all about being fair to as many kids as possible. It should bend over backward to make things as fair as possible. In this, the KHSAA comes up woefully short.

Caldwell County, Elizabethtown, and Breathitt County have all been to the Sweet Sixteen tournament in the realtively recent past.

 

Caldwell County went in 1964 and won a game.

Elizabethtown has been 5 times, winning it all as recently as 2000.

Breathitt County has been to the show 11 times with their most recent trip in 1996 is not sooner.

 

Fort Campbell and DeSales have never been to my knowledge, but then neither had we (Brossart) until 2000.

 

The fact that it is not easy is what makes it so classic. When you do win a region and get there it really makes it something to treasure.

A couple of points.

One, I'm from Caldwell County and I'm 38 years old. My "recent past" doesn't include 1964.

Two, I've never considered Caldwell's 2A state football championship in 1998 less than legit because it wasn't a "true" state championship.

Why is it OK to have classes in some sports, but not others. It's blatantly unfair to have smaller schools compete with schools three or four times their size.

Does "tradition" mean that since the KHSAA has stuck it to the smaller schools for so long that it's OK to just keep on doing it?

I'm sorry, I just don't get that argument.

A class system for basketball is the only fair thing to do.

I hate to single out certain teams, but since Scribe already mentioned Caldwell and Henderson, I'm going to use those two teams as an example.

Henderson has over 2,000 students. Caldwell has less than 700. Exactly how, in any way, shape or form, is Caldwell supposed to compete with Henderson on a level playing field (which is what the KHSAA should be endorsing).

In other words, if you were Caldwell and I was Henderson and we were picking teams on the playground, I would get three picks for every one you got. Gee, which one of us is going to have the loaded team?

However, by having just one class, the KHSAA is endorsing an incredibly uneven playing field. I can't believe there's not more outrage.

There is a reason 48 states have different classes for basketball. Because it's the only fair thing to do.

Perhaps, if a few more schools actually went into the season with something more than a snowball's chance of competing for a regional or state championship, the amount of interest in Kentucky high school hoops might just increase, not decrease.

As it stands now, you can pick out the 3-4 larger schools in most regions and they will be the ones competing for championships.

My vote would be for classification, but I'm probably in the minority.

When Caldwell was moved to the 7th District two years ago, the KHSAA was trying to do away with three-team districts.

Actually, the KHSAA had wanted to move Caldwell to the 7th when West Hopkins and South Hopkins were consolidated to form Hopkins County Central back in the 1990s. However, Caldwell had a pretty strong voice on the Board of Control at the time, and got to remain in the 5th.

Caldwell has no such voice now, which is why it is in the 7th District.

The whole realignment thing was pretty shortsighted on the KHSAA's part, but that's pretty much par for the course where the KHSAA is concerned.

At some point, some major realignment is going to need to be considered, maybe making fewer districts (perhaps two in each region?) or fewer regions, but that's probably a discussion for another thread.

Caldwell used a 13-2 run to go up 16-6 in the first quarter, then opened the second quarter with a 17-1 run to make it 33-9.

Caldwell went up 50-19 midway through the third quarter, then emptied its bench after several hard fouls by Crittenden left one Tiger with a bloody mouth and another rolling on the floor holding his head.

Fraliex "held" to a season-low 21 but set the Caldwell career scoring record and now has 2,909 points. Caldwell's starters played maybe one full half of basketball.

The Tigers will have to play better in the semifinals to beat Henderson, but it's hard to look crisp against a team that played as sloppy and physical as Crittenden did.

Henderson 57, Hopkinsville 53.

Henderson had to rally from eight points down in the final three minutes to pull it out against Hopkinsville.

Not quite double digits, but a Hendo win.

The Colonels will have their hands full with Caldwell in the semis.

The Tigers beat Crittenden 68-41. Fraliex "held" to season-low 21 points. Play got physical in the third quarter, so Caldwell emptied with bench with 12 minutes left in the game.

My head says Christian, but my heart is with Caldwell.

Should be some really good semifinals with Henderson-Caldwell and Christian-Madisonville.

I'm going with Caldwell and Christian in the final.

I think it was leaping about five feet in the air and stomping both feet on the floor that did it (followed by a neat little spin move)

Actually, Bell was upset with a foul called as the Storm double-teamed Fraliex, but it was another referee who T'd him up.

Hopkins Central seems to be under the impression that the referees call a lot of touch fouls for Fraliex. Who am I to argue?

Not a masterpiece by either team but Caldwell advances.

Matt Fraliex had 30 but Caldwell struggled from the field, just 14 of 36, and was outrebounded 42-18. However, Caldwell outscored Hopkins Central 27-11 at the free throw line.

The Tigers play Madisonville-North Hopkins in Thursday's final. Caldwell hasn't beaten Madisonville since Travis Ford was the point guard — 22 straight losses dating back to the 1986-87 season.

Pepper had six points and fouled out late in regulation.

Caldwell was a foul or two away from having to play eighth graders in overtime.