Justafan#85

Want to take a guess at what Male's record is vs X?? How about 11 wins vs 14 losses the last 25 times they've played. They are 4-8 vs Trinity during the same time period. Not a winning record, but quite a ways from losing 8 out of every 10. I'd definitely say they win more than occasionally. Now in fairness, Manual hasn't been as competitive. But still, the arguments you've made don't quite hold up to the actual facts. I know what the perception is, but it's not quite reality.

The fact is public schools have a better chance beating Male & Manual year in and year out then they do beating X & T.

Proves enrollment isn't always the deciding factor...which is what the point you were trying to make with your post. Those schools have 2 and almost 3 times the number of boys enrolled. If it were ALL about the numbers those teams should be steamrolling Mayfield every year...and they don't. The reverse is usually true.

You can't cherry pick one school here and there. We are talking about public schools in general. Enrollment does play a hugh factor overall.

Of course we don't know it as a fact, but I believe as do many others that there would be a more than fair chance that Male and Manual would year in and year out be the top dogs, with another school here and there throwing their hat into the ring...really no different than it is now, just the names of the schools would change.

Well we know the current X & T have won 90% of the championships the last 22 years. We are only assuming that Male and Manual would ascend to the top. But they have more losses to public schools than X & T. Again the gap would be narrower then it is now. Didn’t 7th ID get disbanded..Thank you for your service.

Heck, how about 99 out of the next 100 years more likely, but good point. I doubt, however, that is of concern to him, just as long as the privates are somewhere else. Don't know that as a fact, just a guess.

T & X play by different rules financially and enrollment. Those two alone set them far above most public schools. Establish a Midwest private school region (1A-6A). Then the public school vs private school argument is mute. The rich love the status quo when it benefits them.

And what about when T and X win the "privates" title 20 out of 20 years? What then do you do to help the disadvantaged private schools?? Or is that somehow just better since they are now out of the publics hair?? You're not fixing the "problem" (one that I say doesn't exist) by just moving it someplace else. It's like cleaning your room by throwing everything under your bed. All the junk is still there, you're just not able to see it. It looks better, but really it's still there.

You almost concede there is a problem.

And Justafan#88 you still haven't addressed my question/scenario after several replies to my posts.

 

T and X go away. Manual and Male become the "new" public school versions of what T and X are now and win 6A most every year the next 20 years the way T and X have the past 20 years or so. In your mind, is that "fair"? Would we then need to split Male and Manual off because they have unfair advantages and dominate the state? I'd really like to know your opinion on this.

I guess because I don't believe Manual or Male are in the same league as X & T. Yes, they will beat the super 2 occassionally. But if Male and Manual play X & T 10 times I believe X & T win 8. Manual and Male have to content with some of the same contraints other public schools do. That atleast narrows the gap. If Male & Manual as public schools dominate 6A (which I don't think they will) that's fine with me atleast we are closer to comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. But I really don't think they will dominate the way X & T do...

I really don't know that they are resourced that much better. Take Kenton County Schools (only because I'm familiar with that district). Some of the best facilities in the state (Scott has arguably one the best football/indoor training facility in the state...SK is pretty close and many schools would kill for Dixie's facility which is only missing an indoor facility). There is a paid strength and conditioning position. Each school has a budget of about $30k per year to pay football coaches including middle school coaches (this is public information and can be readily found online) Coaches have access to and attend well known clinics paid for by the school district. Excellent Athletic trainers with access to great medical care and rehab. Are there some obstacles?? Sure...but it's hard to make an argument that all public schools are operating at such a huge disadvantage or don't have the resources to compete.

Scott co is the only game in town. Do they even have a staduim? I know they use the Georgetown College as their home staduim. They didn't pay for that? Is that a full time strenght coach or teacher coded as a strenght coach? 30K is nothing between 12+ coaches. T & X probably pay that to their OC or DC alone if not more. Not every public school system pays for coaches clinics anymore. Majority schools in the public school system will never have the facilities u mention above. We haven't even touched on the enrollmemt T & X average 1300 males. the majority of 6A is 400 or so below that.

Which would still only put them about even with the rest of the state. Check out how many D1 commits other schools had this year only.

 

And my points about Male, the coaches, and a possible nutritionist were not addressed.

U can't discuss one game or win against T & X over the years..doesn't fit. What do you think Coach Beatty's salary is??? Most public schools do not have athletic nutritionist no matter what their role is at the school.

What about how they lost to Male? That's a public school in Kentucky.

 

All of Trinity's coaches are also teachers. Do we even have a nutritionist on the payroll? If so I doubt they work sports only. Any sports nutrition would be secondary to planning/managing the breakfast/lunch schedules of the school.

 

Also, you talk about Trinity bringing in kids from other states. Then why does Trinity have zero graduates invited to a D1 college team? Seriously, check the college commit list.

I believe there are 4 or 5 last year juniors from trinity being looked at by D1 programs. I believe 1 or 2 already have offers.

I just don't agree with kicking someone out because they are too good. And while this may seem great for the publics, T and X will dominate a private division even worse. You'd simply be creating a problem in order to fix a problem. Not all private schools operate on the same playing field either. Yes Trinity and X are unique in this state with their large population of students. But pulling the private schools out doesn't make the public schools better in sports, or fix any of the issues that are preventing them from being competitive. People complain all the time about how classing sports, or everyone making the playoffs waters things down, and makes titles less meaningful. But many of those same people want to pull out the best teams to make things better?? How does that make any sense??

U are right..pulling X & T wont make any public school better, just level the playing field for the public schools. Just like everything else..its about money. Public schools do not have the ability to skirt title 9...X & T do? Public school systems operate on tax payer $$, Public schools systems have elementary, middle and HS to fund. T & X only have their individual schools. T & X have an unfair advantage. I don't think T & X are too good just resourced better, which means they can bring in the best players..coaches...facilities. Things public schools cannot do.

I agree with everything here except the bolded. I think the best team should win every year. If it's the same 2 ( or however many) teams, then so be it. Sure it sucks and gets frustrating. But it is what it is. I'm not a fan of making changes because someone is too good. It's not the way things work in any other situation in life.

Again most of you miss the point. X & T are the best programs because they have resources public schools do not. That's the point. Public schools cannot bring in a kid who lives in Indiana or Tenn or another county for that matter to play for their team. that gives X & T a HUGH advantage...really do you not see that. All Ts losses this year were from out of state schools they would not win a private school midwest region every year. Public schools cannot pay their coaches the salarlies that X & T do. There are few all male public schools...Public schools cannot hire dedicated strenght coaches or nutruituionist. X & T have unfair advantages. Bottom line. The proof is in Ts record last year they lost to teams that had the same advantages they did.

Man, you didn't refute rjs4470's point at all...as a matter of fact it seems you missed the point entirely.

 

You said Male, Manual and Scott Co aren't winning titles (except for Scott Co last year, but I guess that doesn't count). Yes, you are essentially correct. rjs4470's point is, however...remove T and X, and then guess who starts winning most all the 6A titles? More than likely Male, Manual, maybe a Scott Co or someone else here and there. You seemed to completely gloss over this point. So you STILL have 2 or 3 schools dominating 6A, so then what? If Male and Manual won the next 15 out of 18 state titles, what's the difference? You would still have a very few select schools dominating. So do you split them off too?

 

It's NEVER going to be a completely level playing field. Somebody/school is ALWAYS going to have better players, better facilities, more money, better coaches, more kids, work harder, work longer, better attitudes, better school and community support...the list goes on.

 

My suggestion? Quit trying to change/rig the system against a few teams because they have had more success, and instead have your/the other schools RISE to the occasion and meet and beat the X's and T's of the world in the current system that isn't broken.

Anyone who thinks the 2 same teams should win 20 State Championships in 22 years is crazy. Bottom line..the playing field is not fair and never will be. I’m sure the alumni of X and T love the current system. I didn’t gloss over the point. Male, Manual and Scott co are good programs, but they are not on the same level of X and T year in and year out, if they were they would have more state championship appearances and titles. The system is broken!!! It only benefits 2 teams. There is no reason not to have a two tier system (Public & Private). Public schools systems can’t afford nutritionist, strength coaches, high paid head and assistant coaches..just can’t. I’m not hating on X & T…man they are the class of the field and great programs not just in football but most sports they are the ones to beat. Vast majority of public programs can’t even give them a good game..why do you think Trinity plays half their games outside Ky. One, it’s hard to get public schools to schedule them and the competition in state doesn’t really give them a look. If T can find games outside the Ky public school system so can the rest of the private schools. Let fix the problem.

So we've got to get other states involved...who's going to manage and run it. How do you convince someone like Moeller to give up their affiliation with their state to compete for a Midwest Region title instead of an Ohio State title?? I'm not sure how we can get others to help us fix a problem only Kentucky has.

That's a good point...IDK. But I don't think KY is the only state struggling with this issue. If we are we should be looking at those states that have figured it out for help. But good point.

Again, I ask the question, is how is it better?? Trinity and X will still win the private title most years. How is that fair for the rest of the privates?? We hear constant complaining about today's society and how "everyone gets a trophy". But yet we want to manipulate the system to "give everyone a chance".

 

So lets create a public vs private. What then do we do about Highlands?? They've won many titles as of late. Should we create a special division for them too, to give everyone else a shot?? No one seems to care when a public dominates, but when a private does, it's a problem. For the record I'm a public school guy, and I never considered a private school for my kids.

As I explained in my earlier post. Agree there are not enough private schools in the state per division to create a public and private system. But it could work if a midwest private region was created. I can assure you X and T will not win every year. T already participates out of state.

Please explain why then. Give it to us in detail. Also please explain why DeSales didn't rise up until recently and has played many tough games against schools in their division, why LexCath only has a few titles, why Owensboro Catholic hasn't done much, why Holy Cross in Louisville hasn't been relevant in over a decade and so on.

 

Of all the schools that are private in KY there are only 2 that most have a problem with in football.

 

So please enlighten me.

Explain how and why they win…really. Again maybe if LexCath..Holy cross..Owensboro Catholic played similar private schools they might win more. First..the two schools we are talking about have 1400 males on average..dwarfing 95% of the public schools in the state. Hey, like I told rjs4470..if you think 20+ titles in 22 years by the same two teams is a fair system so be it. That’s your opinion.

So what then happens when Male, Manual, or Scott county (or some other school) dominates and wins 10 out of the next 12 titles?? High school sports in much more than just winning state championships, and no one's life has been ruined or altered because they didn't win the state title. You pull all the privates out, and guess what happens? Trinity or X still wins the "privates" title 9 out of 10 years (frankly that would probably be 10 out of 10 years). Then what do you do so the smaller private schools have a chance to win a state title or rectify the unfairness, which honestly would probably be even worse. But I guess that wouldn't matter since they wouldn't be beating up on the publics anymore, which at the big school level will still be dominated by 2 or 3 schools. High School sports and state titles AREN'T the most important aspect of your high school life. If a high school state championship is the highlight of your life, I'd argue you haven't lived a full life.

The fact is Scott..Manual..and Male are not winning state titles every year. Those are the facts. Hey, if you think 20+ titles in 22 years by the same two teams is a fair system so be it. That’s your opinion. If you don’t think state titles are important you must be the only one. Why do you think KHSAA move Trinity out of the super district…$$$$. Almost ensures that Trinity will play St. X in the 6A championship game most years. What’s so wrong with having a private system and public system???? I’m sure most private school systems like the current system. Smaller private schools (Holy cross..etc) would simply play other smaller private schools

There just aren't enough Private school to make a complete class in football.

 

There are some advantages inherent to being large private male only school, but the right coach can win against them in the right situation. Male, Manual, Scott Co and others have the numbers and talent to compete with them. They just may not have the same laser focus on football that T and X have.

 

No reason at this point to break up into public and private in Kentucky.

I agree...20+ titles or so in the last 22 years is ridiculous. Any person on this site who thinks it’s fair is living in fantasy land. It has nothing to do with X and T focus on football. We all know why and how they win each year. There are enough private schools in KY, OH, IN, and TN to create a private school league. Trinity already plays half its games out of state.

[quote=Skilld

 

Hope it works out as well but the statistics don't give these Walk-Ons much chance. I think about 1-2% of these kids keep with football after their sophomore year. Most find it too much work without any gain. Hope these kids are going to the school that they want and the football is secondary since the percentages bear out that they will not be playing football after their Sophomore year.

Walk-ons

This is not meant to disrespect those who have chosen to walkon to any particular program, just a reality check for those still weighing their options.

I totally agree. I can weigh in on this subject from 1st hand experience. First, I hope every player and parent has really considered all their options before accepting a walkon position. Only 4% of HS football players get an opportunity to play football at the college level (that’s all divisions). Less than 1% get D1 schollies. Parents be realistic don’t set yourself or son up for failure by overlooking quality and very competitive programs at D2-D3-NAIA. Players and parents should not have the opinion D1 or nothing. In many cases the player and their parents are met with disappointment and frustration. You have to be an incredible player to start at any level.

Take NAIA, those schools can have 150 players on a roster, most will never start a game. Most will not even get any real $$..maybe a few thousand or a % off tuition or books. But these schools are small and cost a lot, student athletes make up the majority of their student bodies. That’s how they survive.

Being a walkon is extremely difficult, especially for D1 kids. They typically are great HS players, just not good enough to receive a scholly. The reality most of these players will never see the field on Saturday. Most will not even make the camp list (105 D1 FBS)(95 D1FCS). Most will not travel to away game and some will not dress out for a bowl game. Some walk-ons may not have a dedicated locker or number. You might be #42 today..but if a new scholly player wants that number he will get it. Most will not receive a letter or letterman.

In my opinion, the teams do not place any real value on walk-ons. Coaches love walk-ons, who wouldn’t they get a free player on scout team and the school gets another paying customer. In my opinion there shouldn’t be walk-ons. If you are good enough to get offered a position on the team and work hard every day to school should pay for your education.

Now, if you really don’t care about playing, just being on the team and getting an education from that particular school is enough walkon is a great route.

Why is this even a concern...

 

Number one priority for any high school kid or school is the academics part, sports is just the extracurricular activity

 

Sad that the KHSAA has to fix their rules because the kid and schools can't take care of business in the first place:thumb:

I agree, if you can't pass in the classroom you shouldn't be playing sports. I would go so far as to say a kid must maintain at least a "C" average to be eligble.

Proud to announce that Tyler Addesa Meade Co OLB/FB has decided to continue his education and football career at Lindsey Wilson.

Like anything else...buyer beware. There is a lot of things you can do.

Campbellsville University Signees

Slater Adams OL Brandenburg, Ky. Meade County High School

Joey Marshall WR/RB Mayfield, Ky. Graves County High School

Dillon Day DL/OL Hickory, Ky. Graves County High School

Garland Webb DB Louisville, Ky. Fern Creek High School

John Chewning OL Campbellsville, Ky. Taylor County High School

Ethan Fleming RB New Haven, Ky. Thomas Nelson High School

Trevor Garrison RB/LB Lewis Port, Ky. Hancock County High School

Eli Clark DB Cox Creek, Ky. Thomas Nelson High School

Keanu Young WR Bardstown, Ky. Bardstown High School

Aidan Hoskins RB Danville, Ky. Boyle County High School

Zach Leigh WR Danville, Ky. Boyle County High School

Duncan Lewis OL Georgetown, Ky. Scott County High School

Tyler Carpenter DB Georgetown, Ky. Scott County High School

Chris Toomey RB Lawrenceburg, Ky. Anderson County High School

Dalton Rose WR Versailes, Ky. Woodford County High School

Coleman Sparks PRT Versailes, Ky. Woodford County High School

Rontez Mithcell DB Frankfort, Ky. Frankfort High School

Samuel Walbert LB/TE Knob Lick, Ky. Metcalfe County High School

Drake Embry DB/WR Morgantown, Ky. Butler County High School

Daniel Elder LB/SS Elizabethtown, Ky. Elizabethtown High School

Landon Curry TE Lawrenceburg, Ky. Anderson County High School

Campbellsville signed a total of 26 players

Tyler Addesa Meade Co OLB/FB has been offered a preferred walkon position at EKU as well and will visit the school on Feb 13. Tyler also received offers from Lindsey Wilson, Wofford, University of Indianapolis, Kentucky Christian and St Francis (PA). Tyler will commit to either Lindsey Wilson or EKU on Friday. Also hearing Ellis Cain of Male will commit somewhere next week.

I don't generally follow the recruiting process much. I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if it has been addressed, but I can't help but notice the absence of EKU on the list. No in-state players signing wtih EKU at all?

Aaron Sipple (Madsion Southern) signed as preferred walk-on for EKU.

These kids signed with Lindsey Wilson

Patrick Adkins Glasgow, Ky. / Glasgow

Austin Beetlestone Richmond, Ky. / Madison Southern

Matthew Bledsoe Louisville, Ky. / DeSales

Lou Bunning Fort Thomas, Ky. / Highlands

Dylan Conn Columbia, Ky. / Adair County

Kaleb Coursey Auburn, Ky. / Logan County

Jarrod Cubert Lawrenceburg, Ky. / Anderson County

Anthony Cummings Louisville, Ky. / Male

Josh Farris Elizabethtown, Ky. / Central Hardin

Cole Frazier Pineville, Ky. / Bell County

Trey Heiskell Bardstown, Ky. / Bardstown

Drew Hobbs Crestwood, Ky. / South Oldham

J.T. Lyon Lancaster, Ky. / Garrard County

D.J. Mills Fort Thomas, Ky. / Highlands

Jared Philpot Monticello, Ky. / Wayne County

Zach Reddington Louisville, Ky. / DeSales

Evan Shaw Lexington, Ky. / Lafayette

Morgan Sheets Versailles, Ky. / Woodford County

Logan Suman Wurtland, Ky. / Russell

Jonathan Thomas Hopkinsville, Ky. / Hopkinsville

Christin Williams Campbellsville, Ky. / Taylor County

Lindsey Wilson signed a total of 49 players yesterday.