GCHS

E-Town or Bell.

I disagree on seeding... 3s get through fairly regularly in most years. That said, I think the 4 team districts are awful. We aren't big enough for 6 classes. However, I am one who didn't love the 4 class system... There is just too big a difference between highest/lowest enrollment. Go to five, and it will be a good compromise. I think the ideal would be 4 public classes and a private class, but that isn't going to happen - so just make it five, and be done with it.

How have you watched every game of both teams, this season?

Count me in the crowd that the field condition shouldn't effect either team.

 

"A wet field hurts Central"- Isn't Boyle's Offense predicated on the passing game? As I have pointed out turnovers are the biggest key for Boyle and a muddy field means a wet ball. Whatever speed Central loses evens out. If this is a battle of power running vs. power running give me Central.

 

"A dry field hurts Boyle"- Dry field = dry ball. Boyle is at their best when they are balanced and Robbins' is making plays with his feet and his arm. Defensively, Boyle will be able to get outside quicker when Central uses the stretch play they love to run so much.

 

These are two elite programs and Head Coaches. Scroggins and Smith have won big time playoff games playing in mud, cold, rain, dry, and even unseasonably hot conditions I am sure. Landscaping won't decide this outcome... it's all about X's and O's, Jims and Joes, and who holds on to the football.

Sound to me like a lot of people are buying into a common misconception about both teams. Boyle is a power-running team & Central is a finesse team.

None of it is true. Boyle's offense is predicated on the pass this season. They have run it well, at times, but Josiah is their best athlete - they have thrown more than run most of the season. Central is not, nor has it ever been while coached by Scroggins, a finesse team. They don't mind physical play one bit. I don't know if the look of the teams confuses people, but Central has battled Belfry for years in the state finals, they are not going to shrink from Boyle's running attack.

That said, I wouldn't bet a nickel on this game... I think either team could win going away, or that it could be a tight game. Just don't know who or what it will be.

IMO, the answers to the following three questions will dictate the game:

1) Can Garrard cut defensive mistakes that lead to big plays?

2) Can Catholic stop the run?

3) Who wins the turnover battle?

If either can answer in the affirmative on two of those items, they win. If it is Catholic, they could win big. If it is Garrard, they could squeak one out.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting they play those teams - that would be ridiculous. I know they play Caverna, Taylor, Metcalfe, and Russell because they are local and probably provide a good gate. And I don't really fault them for it. But they aren't good. That doesn't mean Adair is a bad team. It just means it is really difficult to project how they would do against a team like Elizabethtown or Caldwell.

This.

Impressive stat. 17 INT stands out to me. Going to need all that and more vs Boyle County if they make it out of round 1.

1) They will make it out of Round 1... And it will be a crooked score.

2) IMO, if they score a defensive TD, I think they will win against anyone in the playoffs - Boyle included.

A healthy Robbins is faster than you think but I agree that he does need to be healthy for Boyle to be competitive.

Josiah is fast, but he is not faster than most of Central's skill guys. That is not a knock, it is just the truth. Doesn't make him any less of a great player - just not as fast as those guys.

Brown and him are about the same speed wise...but he is a phenomenal route runner which seperates him

I think that is probably a fair statement. Better receiver, not faster.

And since you know that I'm sure you're well in touch with how many of the coaches and scheudling ad's honor "gentleman's agreements" just as much as they respect a contract. I don't want to lose sight of my original point. Which is, adair and schools like adair are playing who they are supposed to be playing. There is not any reason to suggest that they are playing a padded schedule other than two good seasons of a little over 40 years.

I already stated that maybe "pad the schedule" is not accurate, since I obviously don't know the particulars of Adair's scheduling process... A better statement is probably that Adair hasn't played very tough schedules, lately - which makes it hard to gauge the likelihood of playoff success.

I watched the Belfry/Central game last year. Central looked terrible all game, but because of this stat they had the ball and chance in the last 1 minute of the game. It is a sight to see.

That game looked like it was going to be a blowout early on. Give Coach Scroggins a lot of credit, the toughness (mental & physical) that they play with is impressive.

They usually do. Not sure this year's RB is on the same level as some of the guys they have had in the past.. but usually they a couple HB's who are strong and run North/South and once they get free you aren't going to catch them.

 

Usually the deep ball is what they do best on Offense in the passing game. Central wants to grind you with the run and try to pop a couple long runs. Then they set you up for the play action deep where they almost always have a speed advantage. They aren't a team who likes to dink and dump out of the spread.

 

Kambrin Brown is their best WR for Central and he averages over 30 yards per catch. Ton of speed. They don't have a WR as good as Ogbogu of LexCath (Probably the best WR in 3A, IYAM), but they have a couple guys who would be LexCath's #2 guy if put in their system. Armstrong, IMHO, is their 2nd best WR..he is more of a possession guy. White is another deep threat.

Ogbugu is really good, but I don't know if he is a lot faster than any of Central's WRs. He is probably a better receiver, but I don't think his speed is much better. The problems for LexCath if they meet Central are more about having the time to throw downfield AND stopping the run.

Central has ran for 1600 yards and passed for a thousand yards. Far from Owensboro Catholic, but they can throw the ball when they need to.

 

Will Boyle be able to pass on Central? 17 Interceptions by the Yellowjackets and 5 of those returned for scores. 30 Turnovers forced in all.. 11 of those turned into touchdown returns. Absolutely a remarkable stat!

 

If Boyle doesn't protect the football like they did against LexCath this one could get ugly. Boyle has thrown 5 INT's in their last two quality games and neither LexCath or Dunbar has the pass rush of Central.

 

I think that game is going to be a dandy to watch and the best 2nd Round game in the State.

Central's pass rush is outstanding... In a matchup with Boyle, a healthy Josiah Robbins could be a little an X-factor. He isn't going to outrun many Central defenders, but if Boyle is able to have a healthy Robbins, their rollout game is tough to defend. He can extend plays.

I think it will be a great game, either way.

They may not have the resources to attend every camp and even if they attended they would still have to catch them scrimmaging in action wouldn't they? I am really not sure. I could be mistaken but isn't the only reason the others were caught is because someone filmed it or something like that?

 

Also, what constitutes a scrimmage? Can teams practice against each other at these camps and it not be game action or scrimmage action?

 

It can be an advantage to scrimmage but I still think how much of an advantage it can be is overstated.

I think the rule used to be that you could do drills together, but now full team scrimmaging. That may have been changed after the flap over a few teams before last season. I am honestly not sure.

I really can't answer you about whether or not it is an advantage - I suppose it is a matter of your coaching philosophy. You could make the argument that live reps against an opponent are superior to drills, but you could also make the argument that it just gets you beat up.

It just seems like it would be better for everyone to play by the same set of rules, one way or another. I also don't know if schools have to report camps to KHSAA or not.

Adair County 2011 Kentucky High School Football

Adair County 2010 Kentucky High School Football

 

Here is a link to adair's schedule and results his first year at adair (2011) and the year previous to his arrival (2010). This conversation about "scheduling" is more annoying than any part of high school football forums. With the possible exception of dads with all star sons. This is not college football, where scheduling is strategic, this isnt private school football, where money is not an issue and there is a necessity to play hoover and kings. This is small county football in southern kentucky. Smart and experienced football folks will understand that you can not schedule like the masses on this forum suggest because of the ups and downs of county football. It would be a death sentence for a coach to try and predict the up years and try and schedule different opponents.

If you don't think scheduling is used "strategically," I don't know what to say... I do know that Adair was 8-2 last season, winning by an average of 34 points, but lost the two by an average of 33 points.

In the playoffs, they squeaked by a 3-7 Fort Campbell team by 4 points, then got beat by 50 at Tilghman.

I get what you are saying about travel, but Breckinridge, for example, is 2 hours away from Adair. If a coach doesn't have an idea what his will look like in any two year period, he probably needs to have a better handle on his program. Perhaps the "pad the schedule" comment was a poor choice of words, but they certainly haven't played very good competition week-in-and-week-out.

Again, I never claimed to know about football. All I know is that of all the teams mentioned on here that have scrimmaged this year not a single one will win a state championship this season. Not a single one. Some vast advantage......

Like I said, I don't know how much of an advantage it is, but some of these teams are scrimmaging every evening at camp - sometimes in a grid format against two or more other teams. I can understand the idea that those extra reps are an advantage, and I also can see the argument that it doesn't do anything but beat your kids up... It probably depends on the program/team/roster/format.

You are right that it probably didn't help the teams in question - though that may have more to do with the fact that they were scrimmaging each other. What you can never know is how they would have done without the scrimmages. I will say this - there are plenty of top-level programs that do it... Apparently, the coaches who do it think it is an advantage.

Regardless, it is sad that the KHSAA is so lax in their enforcement, and depends upon outsiders reporting to investigate. I guess if I had office spaces as nice as they do, I wouldn't want to leave that cushy set-up to go to some camp in the sticks with the mosquitos, heat, and bad food.

A lot of the 3 vs. 2. In fact, I would think that while seeding might say otherwise, a lot of the 3s are actually "favored."

I think guys that aren't very good coaches can win because they have more talent than other people. BUT to me if a coach isn't working hard such as rolling out right after practice, not watching film with the kids, not preparing his team for games(kind of goes along with the first few) obvious coaching blunders in the games, lack of control of team, cheating ie breaking rules kind of like we have seen this year then I think that is grounds for firing. I don't think coaches should just be fired after a year or two but if it is obvious that the guy doesn't know what he is doing then why punish kids by keeping him. And again don't leave the administration out of this if they fire or hire a guy and it is wrong either way those people should be held accountable and THEY NEVER ARE!!!!!

I pretty much agree with this... If an HC is not doing the things necessary to build a winning culture, then he needs to go. To me, it isn't even necessarily about the scoreboard and/or final record. If a coach is building a culture of commitment, respect, & accountability, as well as providing a positive experience for student-athletes, I think he is doing everything he can. That said, if he is doing those things, then wins will probably follow. However, as many on here have alluded to, what "winning" looks like for schools/programs differs from place-to-place. In some places, 6-4 is a great achievement, in others 8-2 is the low end of the expectations scale.

As far as administrators, that is a little trickier... Their first accountability is to academic culture, in most cases. And while I (and most BGP posters, probably) think that athletic/academic culture are tied together, I don't think most admins probably truly understand that connection. As a result, admins often hire what they believe to be a solid, hard-working head man, fewer and fewer commit to hire enough assistants, provide in-school weights, or a host of other commitments that are necessary to build a football program. Most administrators are content to have a football team, rather than a football program, because they don't understand the difference. However, admin are never going to be judged solely on athletics hires - nor should they, IMO, unless they have ignored dangerous behaviors.

By best do you mean most competitive? If that is what you mean, I think Casey & Breathitt, maybe. Waggener certainly has the athletes to give ANYONE a game, I just think Boyle's discipline & execution will overwhelm them. Garrard & Henry could be a good one, though I honestly don't know a lot about the Wildcats. The only thing I know about Adair & Union is that Adair seems to pad their schedule every year.

I still say you push the season back to starting week 1 for all and do away with week zero. Then you could allow 2 scrimmages in August to better prepare all teams. You could still play 11 weeks and Thanksgiving weekend would be for regional finals.

When stuff comes out about scrimmages at camps, I am not sure that people really know what that really means... We aren't talking about ONE extra scrimmage. Most of the teams that do this kind of stuff are scrimmaging every evening at camp, often against multiple teams. So, in effect, you are sometimes talking about the equivalent of 3 or 4 extra scrimmages, if not more.

Disagree. I don't think it is as much as an advantage as people make it out to be.

I think arguments about how much of an advantage it is misses the point, entirely. It is illegal, plain and simple. Follow the rules.

This type of stuff has been going on for decades.

Maybe all of the attention SOME of these teams have been getting will even the playing field. Heck, there was a player/parent posting on one of these threads awhile back talking about all the scrimmaging they had done & I still haven't heard anything about them.

I gotta be honest most bleacher coaches don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. I am basing this on someone whose opinion I greatly value.

I understand that, but he is also basing it off of TWO games, without seeing any of the other 8 teams on Rockcastle's schedule. Even for a coach, that is a small sample size.

A good amount do.

 

But, you also have a good amount that are in other areas.

 

Jerry Perry (Garrard County)- Math

Travis Gay (Adair County)- Asst. Principal

Joey Cecil (Lawrence Co)- MS Asst. Princ.

Anthony Boone (Hart Co)- Social Studies & the department chairperson at that.

Chad Lewis (John Hardin)- Guidance Couns.

Phillip Haywood (Belfry)- Guidance Couns.

Coby Lewis (Trigg Co)- Social Studies

Ty Scroggins (Central)- Social Studies

 

 

Then you have several who do Spec Ed, PE, ISS, Homebound, etc., which are all very much needed. However, if you coach football and do one of those spots you get some kind of unfair lable and catch grief. But, be Betty Jo or Johnny Mack in one of those roles, and not coach, then all is fine.

I would say that, for better or worse, the label exists for most coaches who are teachers. I don't buy into it... In fact, in my life, some of my best teachers were coaches.

I agree with you that you have people in all sorts of positions, but if it is a coach, it is a problem for some reason. Of course, this usually comes from people who beat the buses out of the parking lot in the afternoons.

Not sure how long Coach Saylor stayed. I think about 3 years. Coach Saylor is still at games on the hill by locker room. I think he is retired from teaching now, not sure.

When Coach Larkey went to Harlan Co, his son Chris who coached there for a lot of years went to be HC at North Laurel.

So we lost 3 coaches that had been there for 20+ yrs.

That is tough for any program.