truthbtold

I have never felt that Tebow would become a classic NFL QB, but in a system that fits his strengths he can be successful. Denver made changes to their philosophy and played to their quarterbacks strengths and were successful. The team felt that long term they could not get where they wanted to go in that system, with that quarterback. Most importantly, that team had other options which included replacing him with arguably the best quarterback to ever play the game. No team now, or in the foreseeable future has that type of option.

 

For Jacksonville changing everything about their system for a QB that could get them to .500 sounds appealing. Anybody who has been a Bengals fan for more than a minute should understand that sentiment. Several times over the last decade every Bengal fan would have fallen all over themselves to get a QB who had a record of having turned a season around. For his part, Tebow produced when given the chance. There is no other QB available to Jacksonville that has ever shown the ability to turn a franchise around. Good for Jacksonville for considering outside the box options.

Denver won because of their defense. I like how everyone wants to over look the first 57 minutes of the game when defenses weren't playing prevent.

If the alternative is Blaine Gabbert? Yes. You are not going to convince me Tebow does not give them a better chance of winning.

 

This here is a sideshow though.

Only if you go to a wing T option offense. The dude sucks!!!!

You guys act like if he takes a year off, he's automatically the #1 pick next year. That's a huge assumption, and one that is probably incorrect. Teams will seriously question his desire, work ethic, and heart. NFL players will have no respect for him.

I disagree with you. Do you not think some people in the NFL are probably hoping he sits out? I'm sure the Giants are and other teams with bad records to this point are hoping and praying he doesn't get hurt and they are awarded the first pick. It's a business and you have to protect yourself. IF he get's injured, will S. Carolina take care of him? No! I think some of you give the NFL too much credit for the looking for character guys. It's talking points most of the time.

Which is the same thing as saying he's a liar.

That's how he felt about the situation at the time.

You see nothing wrong with calling your boss, the guy who signs your checks, a liar to the media?

He didn't say my boss is a liar. He stated, he felt like he was lied to. I'm sure he was asked how he felt and he stated how he felt.

I'm confused, you were telling me he was right in what he said now you want to see what he said?

 

Anyway, from "Cincinnati Magazine":

 

“I just feel like they didn’t have to sign Joey to that contract. He still had two more years on his,” says Phillips. “And for [the front office] to go out there and sign him before they sign me, and they knew I was going to be a free agent?” Phillips shakes his head. “I understand Joey’s a good player. He’s one of the best players in this game. But I feel like I am too. I told them that this is where I wanted to be. I begged them. I told everybody I want to finish my career here. And then they give someone a contract who didn’t ask for nothing?”

 

With Phillips hoping to garner a deal in the range of the league’s highest paid second basemen, the numbers weren’t adding up. Rumors were beginning to swirl about Phillips being used as a trade asset later in the season. Quietly, the Reds front office offered him six years for $72.5 million. Phillips says that Reds General Manager Walt Jocketty and team owner Bob Castellini—chairman of Castellini Co., the billion-dollar national produce distributor—made clear it was all the team could offer. Phillips swallowed his pride and signed the deal, though he clearly hasn’t forgotten what he perceived as a slight.

 

“To this day, I’m still hurt. Well, I don’t wanna say hurt. I’ll say scarred. I’m still scarred. It just sucks that it happened,” he says. “For [Castellini] to sign somebody for $200 million, there must be a new vegetable or fruit coming out that we don’t know about. For him to do something like that and tell me they didn’t have any more money, that’s a lie. But what can I do? I just feel like it was a slap in my face.”

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything terribly wrong with the interview. He's being honest. I think you stating that he slammed management may be a little over the top. He stated, he felt like he was lied to.

I think Chapman is the arm that is most likely dealt. A rotation of Latos, Bailey, Leake, Cingrani, and Cueto would be one of the most formidable in the game.

So you think they should deal Chapman arm?

Not that you need this information, but just so you view my thoughts on this correctly. I left a fairly prominent job with a pretty fair compensation package because I disagreed 100% with how the owners wanted the direction to change. However, I didn't rip them publicly or respond to interview requests where I knew it would be hard not to be construed as ripping them. Publicly ripping them would make me look as poor as them, which, lo and behold, is what happened here.

Can you give me Phillips quote on ripping the management?

Serious question....If the Reds could trade Phillips and Chapman for Stanton, and take the money saved and sign Omar Infante to play 2B, so they'd role out a lineup of:

 

CF Hamilton

1B Votto

LF Stanton

RF Bruce

3B Frazier

2B Infante

SS Cozart

C Mesoraco

 

You don't think that'd be a better lineup than what the put out there this year, or what they'd put out there by keeping Phillips?

Looks like they will be missing the post season.

That lineup means the Reds hired LaRussa because he is the only one who might convince Votto he should be hitting 2nd.

Looks like they will be missing the post season.

No one has minimized anything. No one has said defensively he's not as good as it gets. Offensively, he's average. RBI totals are not the defining statistic for an offensive player. They just aren't. It's one of the most irrelevant, overrated stats there is.

IMO stating that anyone could hit 100 RBI's behind choo and Votto is minimizing his talent.

Swallowing your dignity and not ripping them in print are probably two different things. However, to answer your question, YES, "just because he writes the checks."

I guess you live your life different that Phillips

truth and camel ... I am with you on Phillips as to player productivity. The Reds will not be able to replace him defensively or offensively. But baseball is played between the ears. I think the way Phillips plays negatively impacts every other player in my clubhouse. That is the reason I think they should move him.

 

Also, I agree with you camel on Phillips with the fans. He is probably the best on the team in fan interaction. I still feel he needs to be moved if you want to take the Reds to playoff wins not playoff appearances.

I respect your decision for wanting him moved. I had the issue with, a few bgp posters minimizing his playing ability.

I am not choosing sides in the BP vs The Owner situation, but I know that right or wrong, the guy who is on the bottom of the check will always trump the name on the Pay To line of the check.

I understand that, but do you swallow your dignity if you know someone is not telling the truth about you just because he writes the checks?

If you ask this question, you aren't watching Reds games. I am being serious when I say answer your question - every night. Phillips hasn't run out a ground ball hard in his career. Any routine ground ball hit to him, he will play the ball as slowly as possible, smile at the guy running to first and then lob it to first just hard enough to get the guy out. That is "swag" in BP world. On the last out in the Reds game vs. Pittsburgh, it was a ground ball to second. Walker hustled in front of the ball, set himself to throw and fired the ball to first. In my world, that is swag.[/Q

 

In your world he never hustles and waits on ground balls? Alright then!

........

 

Truthbtold, so you don't go crazy trying to defend his on-field performance, I would say the main reasons they want to deal him are: a) financially; b) off the field. The quote I was given, "we realize the folly in signing that guy to that contract." If the owner (that you [meaning BP, not YOU] called a liar, FYI) doesn't like you, your time with that organization is going to be limited.

That's fine. You should tell the truth if you don't want to be called a liar.

And exactly how is that? Because he decides to let a guy slide into his butt, rather than just turning around and making the tag like any other player would do? Because he decides to flip a ball between his legs or behind his back rather than strait to a guy, like any other player would do? Because everytime he fields a ground ball he has to stand up, pat his glove 10 times and then just fling the ball to Votto, instead of fielding the ball and throwing it. (That is until the Cards and Pirates come to town and are busting it down the line on him) Because he has to fling his glove behind his head everytime he catches a fly ball, instead of just catching the dang thing? Or maybe its because hes one of the worst baserunners in the league. If you need evidence of that, look at game 3 of the NLDS last year trying to go 1st to 3rd and getting thrown out by 10 ft. Next guy up gets a hit, wouldve scored Phillips. How many runs did we lose by again? You want another great example? Scott Rolen. One of the best defensive 3rd basemen to ever play the game. You dont praise him though, because he makes the routine plays, and doesnt have to do it with flare. I could go on and on about Phillips. Bottom line is that ya, hes a great infielder, but overall, hes mediocre.

Who cares? It's the way he plays the game!!! Like I said, just because you don't like the way he plays he arrogant. Nonsense!

Yes. When nearly 1 out of every 2 times you step to the plate you've got runners on base, driving in runs becomes a heck of a lot more likely.

Brando Phillips Career stats

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards

2002 21 CLE AL 11 36 31 5 8 3 1 0 4 0 0 3 6 .258 .343 .419 .762 105 13 0 1 1 0 0 4

2003 22 CLE AL 112 393 370 36 77 18 1 6 33 4 5 14 77 .208 .242 .311 .553 48 115 12 3 5 1 0 *4

2004 23 CLE AL 6 24 22 1 4 2 0 0 1 0 2 2 5 .182 .250 .273 .523 40 6 1 0 0 0 0 /4

2005 24 CLE AL 6 9 9 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 .000 .000 .000 .000 -100 0 0 0 0 0 0 /4D6

2006 25 CIN NL 149 587 536 65 148 28 1 17 75 25 2 35 88 .276 .324 .427 .751 88 229 19 6 4 6 3 *4/6

2007 26 CIN NL 158 702 650 107 187 26 6 30 94 32 8 33 109 .288 .331 .485 .816 105 315 26 12 2 5 4 *4/6 MVP-22

2008 27 CIN NL 141 609 559 80 146 24 7 21 78 23 10 39 93 .261 .312 .442 .754 94 247 13 5 0 6 6 *4 GG

2009 28 CIN NL 153 644 584 78 161 30 5 20 98 25 9 44 75 .276 .329 .447 .776 103 261 21 6 2 8 3 *4

2010 29 CIN NL 155 687 626 100 172 33 5 18 59 16 12 46 83 .275 .332 .430 .762 102 269 14 8 6 1 1 *4 AS,GG

2011 30 CIN NL 150 675 610 94 183 38 2 18 82 14 9 44 85 .300 .353 .457 .810 118 279 15 9 5 6 3 *4 AS,GG,SS

2012 31 CIN NL 147 623 580 86 163 30 1 18 77 15 2 28 79 .281 .321 .429 .750 99 249 19 8 3 4 2 *4 MVP-13

2013 32 CIN NL 151 666 606 80 158 24 2 18 103 5 3 39 98 .261 .310 .396 .706 92 240 19 8 4 9 6 *4 AS

Seems like he's been close a couple of years. When Choo and Votto wasn't always on base.

Yes. When nearly 1 out of every 2 times you step to the plate you've got runners on base, driving in runs becomes a heck of a lot more likely.

You still have to drive the runner in, right?

This is one of the funnier posts I've read on here. You obviously watch a different Reds team than the rest of us.

 

Most average offensive player in baseball. Lots of guys could've hit behind Choo and Votto all year and knocked in 100 runs. A whole heck of a lot.

Lots of guys? Hahahahah

Reds fan's love their false hustle. It doesn't matter if you have a lick of talent as long as you "hustle" on your choppers to short this town will love you. Let's get rid of the 100 RBI gold glover because he plays with "Swag". Any player that is not the hard nosed max out talent white dude in the Pete Rose mold has never been very popular in Cincinnati. It's why Aaron Boone was loved and Eric Davis could never do enough. Brandon Phillips is only 2nd to Joe Morgan, a freaking Hall of Famer in best 2nd basemen the Reds have ever had and fans want him gone!? Brandon Phillips plays as hard as anyone on their roster and is one of the very few that has any interaction with fans/kids. I wish they all played like Phillips.

Thank you! I wonder why everyone is against the "Swag"? Kids love BP because of it.

And boots the routine one right at him. Or maybe he makes plays that nobody else does because others decide to play the game strait up, rather than with swag. Take Carpenter from St. Louis for example. On top of all of that, nobody on here has said anything but good things about BP's defense. I am pretty sure every person has said that we would lose defensively but overall it would be better for the team.

huh? not trying to rude, but this this is a ridiculous comment.

I said he's as good as they come defensively, but if you don't think he takes plays off or doesn't hustle on offense, you simply aren't watching Reds games.

Clarify for me, in what situations does he not hustle? I just want to see if it's any different than any other players.

At least once a game. Makes me wonder how much you follow the Reds. You're the first person I've ever seen that thinks he hustles and doesn't take plays off.

I've never said that he has never taken a play off, but how many don't is my question?

I don't know what you're asking....He's arrogant because he takes plays off, showboats, and doesn't hustle.

Why don't you just say, you don't like him because he doesn't play the game the way you think he should. I wonder how he makes plays that 99% of others can't if he's not hustling or is taking the play off?