BelfryJustice

Belfry has played in 4 State Title Games and lost two Semi games during the last 20 years! Thats not bad and may be the best in the Mountains during this period of time!

1985 lost a state title!

1986 lost a state title!

1989 lost in the semi to Highlands (which went on to win a title)

2003 won AA Title

2004 won AA Title

2005 lost semi to Russell ( Which went on to win a title)

Allow me to elaborate, o-line. OSA was referring to a game played at Belfry during the 86 playoffs where the field was very sloppy and muddy and it is widely believed that it was not a result of Mother Nature.

Watusi, you have been very close to Belfry for many years! Was the field watered down for sure? I was at school the day of the game and saw nothing!

Which is why I also included on a neutral or "controlled" playing surface. We win that game by two TDs in any other non-tampered with surface in the state. Playing on a good field surface in 1993 was more indicitave of what that match up would normally be like

 

PS Danville was close to being a single A sized school at that time, and you had to do what you did to win. Don't beat your chest too hard.

The 1993 game was the worst team that Belfry has had in 25 years and was the best Danville team of all time! It was the first game of the year also and Danville was load! You don't need to act as if it was any other way! Belfry would have given a good game to Danville the last three years on any field! You need to get ove rthe field thing! Belfry and Danville both had a great team in 85!~

I"LL SAY IT...!!!!- Belfry was not picked to go as far as they did. I agree with Belfry Justice- Belfry was not picked to make it out of the regionals. Nough Said- NOW We know up here in Devilland know that you never count them out because they-Belfry-are tough and you must always prepare for them. I will say that when the grad backs left last year it was going to be tough for them to get back in the swing of things. This is not a secret...... It was hard to replace those running backs and have a team like you had lst year........ BUT we know from experience loosing a running back who had 2400 yards last year that it can be done with a team effort. SO we, up here, knew to watch out for Belfry, class act coach, hard working program and tough to beat.

Belfry Justice your suicide precautiuons are discontinued, feel free to roam around the internet. You are absolutely correct.

:thumb: Great post and thanks for having my back, but the suicide thing wasn't about me.

I'm not sure why you are shouting at me (use of ! with every sentence).

 

All I did was point out some of my take. I'm not saying you have to agree.

 

You say "during that period of time most of the recent AA winners were in AAA." If your understanding of "recent" is the last 3 years then you are correct. If it's the last 10 or 15 (as the thread began with) then I'm not sure.

 

AA Champs

2005 Russell

2004 Belfry

2003 Belfry

2002 Breathitt

2001 Bardstown

2000 Boyle

1999 Boyle

1998 Caldwell

1997 Bourbon

1996 Breathitt

1995 Breathitt

1994 Danville

1993 Mayfield

1992 Danville

1991 Danville

1990 Fort Knox

 

Now I could be wrong but I only see two teams on this list (3 if you count Danville) that were once AAA. Bardstown was A at one time. Since Russell joined AA at least in '95 and Belfry in '99 it's interesting that neither played in a state title game in AA or won at title until Boyle, Lex Cath, Danville, and Mayfield were gone.

 

Just an observation.

I hate to tell you but you are wrong! Breathitt was in our district in AAA for many years, but was one on the first to move down to AA! They go to AA and win three titles. Boyle is now AAA! I am not sure how you can say that about Danville, Mayfield and Lex Cath since they never won a AA after 94 well before most of these teams went to AA! That would make 6 times in the last ten years that a former AAA won the AA title!

This would be shouting!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never read any rule that says you cannot use !.

You still have to qualify what we are talking about before you can make a case either way in this debate.

 

Are we comparing the top 5 from each class? Top 15? The whole class? It makes all the difference in the world. Anyone who argues the case without knowing that is going into battle unarmed, IMO.

 

We have an anomaly in this state where, IMO, at least half of the time the Class A winner has been stronger than the Class AA winner. But to say that the entire class is stronger because their winner is stronger is a huge miscue if you ask me. There is just nothing to suggest that would be true and it is an illogical conclusion to assume it so.

I was looking at the entire class, but also used some data from the top 2 teams in each class! This is a thread that comes up every year and we will never have the answer unless they play! All things look good on paper but change once they are on the field! Most in AA will support AA and most in A will support A! I guess it make for good debate after the season is over and we have nothing else to talk about!

When Danville was dominant in AA (late 80s early 90s at their height) one of these recent AA champions (Belfry) that used to be in AAA didn't stand a chance against Danville (especially on a neutral/controlled field). I think the score in 1993 was 63-7. So, I think Hatz' point is valid. And, saying that Danville and Mayfield aren't as "in control" of A as they were in AA in the late 80s early 90s further proves his point. Beechwood and NCC make it tougher for Danville and Mayfield to win it every year. Hence, the competition must be greater in A.

Very good point! I also remember Belfry going to a state game after a defeat of Danville while they were both 3A in the 80's!

Not that this means anything, but Mayfield and Danville aren't nearly "in control" of A as they were in 2A in the late 80s and early 90s.

What does that have to do with the teams that were in AAA! Danville has made more of a case than Mayfield! Plus look at the teams that weren't in AA at the time!

What am I trying to start? You're making it sound as if Belfry came out of nowhere to reach the semifinals ... any knowledgable fan knows that isn't nearly the case.

I have never said that! You want to twist things around! I just stated some facts about Belfry!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the BGP preseason rankings had Belfry pegged as a prime regional contender ... and well ahead of Leslie County. No one would have been shocked at the first of the year with the notion that Belfry would reach the semifinals.

P-burg was picked to win our district! We always have a great team at Belfry, but many at Belfry didn't see us going as deep as we did in the playoffs! You must not forget that we lost just to name a few two of the best backs of 2004 in the state of KY and our QB from 2004! I never said shocked! We do have one of the best coaches in the State of Kentucky in high school football and he has a way of preparing his teams and making them ready come playoff time! I feel as is Newport would have had their hands full if they would have beaten Russell! Most of what you are trying to start has little to do with any thing now! Russell is the #1 team in AA and I would never do anything to take that away from them!

:creepy: Kind of confused by what you mean here BJ.

 

If you are referring to Belfry and Russell I thought they had been in AA for a while now.

 

Russell has been in AA at least since '95 (that's as far back as KHSAA playoff records go online) and Belfry has been in AA since at least '99.

 

I thought the statement was for the last 10 to 15 years? Belfry has been in AA for over 1/3 of that time and Russell for at least 2/3.

I just don't understand how you can say A is better because of the fact that Danville and Mayfeild was in control of AA! During that period of time most of the recent AA winners were in AAA! It is hard to say that any class has been a power over the other based on the amount of movement in the different classes! A has changed so much in 10 to 15 years! Like wise with AA and AAA! I do feel as if AAAA may have less change than most, but I would have to researched that! All classes have changed so much! I wasn't trying to discredit you! I just think 10 or 15 years is a large period of time to compare!

Interesting numbers, but they really don't mean that much because you can't generalize teams of an entire class. It's possible that the A teams are playing higher-level 3A teams than the 2A programs are, or vice versa. You have to have some controls established in a survey like that.

I do agree with some of what you are saying, but you make one good point hidden in your post! They must play the game before we will ever know any thing!

Ah, Dino, you might want to look at Westsider's post on the previous page. He shows the average of ratings from the top ratings systems in the state and while the ratings are close, Class A has higher ratings.

 

I would go with A for one other reason: When Danville and Mayfield were in AA they dominated the class (Danville in particular). Since being moved to A Mayfield is still a perennial contender and Danville has won 3 state titles since 2000.

That doesn't hold water based on the fact that the teams winning in AA now were all AAA then!

By who ...anyone outside of Leslie County?

It isn't that hard to do so ...

Do you even know what Belfry lost from last year to this year? No, because you are on the West Side of the state and I doubt that you saw them play this year! Most Belfry fans saw this as a rebuilding year! It started to come together and we all changed our minds as the season went on! You didn't give anyone from the East any credit at first and stated that in another thread! So it appears that the pot might be calling the kettle black!

Where? The semifinals?

 

Bull. Belfry was the heavy favorite to win their region. No one minds giving Belfry props for what they accomplished this year, especially on the heels of 2003 and 2004, but to act as if they were a Cinderella team is ridiculous.

No one said Cinderella! I stated that they lost a lot from the 2003 and 2004 teams! Leslie County was picked in the Region! Belfry was a very good team and was a play away from a third trip! It appears to me that you spend most of your time trying to destroy my post and that isn't fair! There were three very good teams in the east this year in Belfry, Russell, and Newport! Any of the three would have claimed the AA title this year!

Have a KHSAA state champiON, not championS. Seed the 4 teams who win their division (a, aa, aaa, aaaa). Do this on some sorta conisistent, objective basis every year (whatever that is). Let the 1 and 4 team play and the 2 and 3 team play. Let the winners duke in out for an All-Division State Champion.

 

:thumb:

Make the 4A teams play their players both ways this game! LOL

I like the return the kicks from the endzone!

Newport was the best game of the year. It was the game when our kids were down, scored on and counted out by alot of people, even Russell fans. Some Russell Fans even got up and left during the game, thinking we were beat. Our kids came back, did not quit and came out on top. If the Newport game did not impress you, you must not have seen Newport. Newport is a great team and will be a dominate factor in next years playoffs, JJ Hesch will be back and that kid is tough. I know one kid does not make a team, but Newport would have went all the way and beat OC also if they would have made it past us. I give Newport all the credit in the world. Solid,tough and very well coached. The Devils just pulled one out, thats all. I agree HERD, this is probably the 3rd best team in the recent past. 2002, 2004 and then this team, so why this team to state????? Why did thid team win state- TEAM, and nothing else.

I am not sure if they make it past Belfry or not! Belfry played Russell very good and that was a great game! Newport would have had their hands full two weeks in a row just as Russell did on thier way to the State Title game! I was impressed with this Russell team, but I was also impressed with Belfry! Belfry wasn't picked to be there and Russell's coach even said that Belfry doesn't die easy! The East was loaded at the right time of year in AA!

Or it could be that the top teams in A are generally stronger than the top 2A contenders in a given year ... not a far-fetched premise.

Uh, Mayfield was in there, too.

I feel as if A would have had a hard time stopping the run game of the last three AA champs! I know that Mayfield won one of the last five, but it is hard to name many more! Why is it that you see the same teams year in year out! Easy, A is very good at the top and drops very fast!!!!!!

I would like to see the comparison of the state champs and runner ups in A Vs AA and AAA during the last 5 years and AA vs A and AAA during the same period of time!

Here is a break down of the above! This is from 2001 to 2005! The % is the % of wins over that class!

1A champs vs AA = 3-0 - 100%

1A Runner up vs AA = 4-1 - 80%

1A Champs vs AAA = 4-4 - 50%

1A Runner up vs AAA = 5-5 - 50%

extra

1A Champs vs AAAA = 5-1 - 83%

1A Runner up vs AAAA = 5-1 - 83%

2A Champs vs A = 4-0 - 100%

2A Runner up vs A = 2-2 - 50%

2A Champs vs AAA = 7-2 - 78%

2A Runner up vs AAA = 2-1 - 67%

extra

2A Champs vs AAAA = 2-0 - 100%

2A Runner up vs AAAA = 6-6 - 50%

Totals

1A Champs and Runner ups vs AA (7-1) 88%, AAA (9-9) 50%, AAAA (10-2) 83%

2A Champs and Runner ups vs A (6-2) 75%, AAA (9-3) 75%, AAAA (8-6) 57%

I would like to see the comparison of the state champs and runner ups in A Vs AA and AAA during the last 5 years and AA vs A and AAA during the same period of time!

I have to go with AA based on the fact that you never know who the winner is going to be because the competitions is better! It appears that for the most part A is won by the same group of teams year in and year out! That tells me that you have fewer teams that can win a title in A based on the fact that there are a select group of teams! In AA there are 6-10 teams that you never know which one will be there most years! 6 teams this year! OC, Russell, Newport, Belfry, Ft Campbell, Trigg! In A during the last five years it has been Beechwood, Danville, and now NCC this year!

In some respects, you are correct! :thumb:

So you are saying that they were weak those years just because it was Belfry and Russell there those years?

I think Russell has a very good shot. They have several key players returning and IMHO 2A is the weakest division in KY HS Football.

I think we hear this every year! Please come up with a new one! I guess in 78, 79, 85, and 86 3A was weak due to the fact that Russell and Belfry made it those years!

Nope. Not at all ...

May be I should?

There is quite a difference between "better" and "much better" ...

 

I suppose you missed the past tense, too.

I have to say I agree with you! I feel as if the East was much better than the West!