eville dad

Am I? You and I may love football but think of all the Moms and Dads that could care less about it but would like their child to play a sport of some kind. They look at football where all the boys wear lots of protective gear and then they look at soccer where the most a kids wears is a shin guard and doesn't have a 300 lb man coming at em, lol.

I understand your statement and agree to an extent, but I have also talked to alot of parents who understand how many injuries there are in soccer becuase of the lack of protective gear. While there are more collisions in football most dont result in injury because of the protective gear. Whereas in soccer the collissions occur with much less protection.

I would be interested to hear more on the subject of injuries by specific sport.

Who decides who gets what % of the scholarships?

I think you would create an educational world of cheating, lieing, and dishonesty. Oh wait a minute I think we already have that, just kidding. I dont really think its currently as bad as all that. But wouldnt your plan create curruption within the systems from the administrators, teachers, coaches, parents and the soon to be established scholarship brokers?

What would all of this tuition reimbursement cost the schools to offset? Would private tuitions go thru the roof to fund the scholarships?

But I think your right parents with the means will opt to send their kids wherever they choose, the days of schools consisting of kids from the neighborhood are pretty much dead and buried. As great a feeling as that was relating to sports with teams competing against other teams and representing their own town or area of town, it just doesnt exist any more in the metro areas and is more and more the case in the rural areas too!

Great Video!

I understand the call and the rules, but are their any rules about blocking the plate, with or without the ball. Back in the day we would have plowed the catcher!

I've seen it too in baseball. Not a pretty site watching 13/14 yr olds move to the big field for their first time for some against bigger and better. Longer base paths, pitching mound farther away, its a big adjustment.

At some point wont more and more teams consist of ms'rs playing up resulting in basically a ms league.

Shouldn't that not be a parental decision? Whether their kid is ready and should compete or not? If either of my children are in that situation and I do have a child MS age competing in a HS varsity sport, then the real decision is with me and then the coach of that sport.

 

The sport she plays is a non-contact sport. Not much physical safety issues in tennis, golf, track, cross country, even volleyball.

I think any parent should have a big part of this decision regarding their own child, but initially it has to be decided upon by whatever sanctioning body, in the case of KY I think it would be the KHSAA. They have to decide on how it applies to all not just the most talented and capable.

Contact or non contact I have seen players humiliated in non contact sports and injured too!

The other side of this coin is: If one middle schooler is able to play, should any and all middle schoolers that want to go out for the high school team be allowed? Whats fair for one should apply to all it seems! Not that all would make the varsity team but could a school create a Freshman and JV team of MS'rs to get them the experience against the older kids?

Going back to my earlier thread regarding other states. I think this issue is deeper than are they capable and we need them to fill out teams. I am really interested in why other states dont allow it, I feel like there are probably some very valid reasons. Can anyone shed some light on why other states have made their decisions and why?

Yes I agree, I believe a school with only 70 kids has some serious issues. Especially when it comes to athletics and how they fill those teams. I think there are solutions other than to MS's filling the voids. Unfortunately some schools so small should limit the number of sports available if they cant field a team. I doubt it would be the first time it has happened.

The fact the younger kids are playing because of lack of enough HS kids is the main reason against ms kids playing. How much risk is assumed for the safety of these younger kids playing against bigger stronger kids simply because they need the numbers?

In post #70 you said,

 

But isnt it really a failing system that allows and/or needs younger kids to compete and fill out high school teams?

 

I did not feel that Highlands was a failing program/system.

 

In "Failing System" I am referring the to programs provided being utilized by the students intended, no one school in particular but the system as a whole. Some schools are better off than others, but the fact that middle school kids participation is even an option is indicative of the nearsightedness of the powers running the show and their failure to see that more kids are needed from the high school ranks or fewer programs. Why is it that this state should even consider allowing middle school kids to play high school sports, when so few other states allow it. The other states not allowing it have just as many or more ms'ers that are capable but yet they are not allowed.

What other states allow middle school kids to compete in high school athletics? I think we will find very few, I am interested in why this is an issue in KY and not in more states, any ideas why other states dont allow it?

What about just the states that border KY?

IN - No

OH - No

Tenn - ?

WV - ?

IL - ?

Mo - ?

Does anyone know if these states allow MS to compete?

Does anyone know of states allowing MS to compete?

I

Concerning the arguments of failing programs. I would not consider Highlands girls basketball nor Jamie Walz (Richie) to be a failing program/system.

I am not familiar with this reference, what is the relevance?

Another reason for fewer hs kids playing sports could be because we now have more sports available than ever before. Soccer, Field Hockey, are a few I can think of, are there more?

What is the answer to KY sports getting more kids involved. Anyone have statistics on the % of HS kids participating in # of sports now compared to say 10 yrs or 15 yrs ago?

yes sir very intelligent

I think most non X & T folks would be willing to try the two team option and risk the four headed monster. I dont think the practicing together would be an option or a problem because of the limitation in the number of scrimmages would not allow it.

I personally think the same sex classes for schools is an excellent idea and should be available in more public schools too!

I agree that the non playing kids on the teams dont consider it unfair and I expect they are very proud to be members, as they should be. But I believe they would be equally or more proud to be on one of the two teams fielded and actually get playing time.

OK, my own daughter has convinced me that the MS'ers shouldnt have to pass high school level classes and that MS is actually more stressful than HS. I guess that is a personal issue for the individual. So I concede that the MS'ers are not under less stress than HS'ers.

However I still say that they should be enrolled in the high school to play for the school team. It's high school teams made up of students from the high school, not the best players it can find regardless of where they attend or will attend school.

But isnt it really a failing system that allows and/or needs younger kids to compete and fill out high school teams?

How many other states allow middle school aged kids to participate in high school sports?

Just my opinion:

I dont argue that some younger kids aren't better at a sport than some of the older kids, thats not the point. It's the win at all cost mentality that is part of the reason that more of KY's high school kids dont participate in athletics. High School age kids more than any other age group need programs to belong too. The fact that this situation exist for discussion in this state is a testament to the poor level of participation of the high school age kids. KY doesnt need middle school players filling out their teams, we need more high school aged kids getting involved with sports. Its part of the reason our state ranks so low in athletics.

I think people are missing the importance of kids "coming of age" and learning the lessons from having to wait their turns for their opportunities. Kids having to wait to play in a certain league or on a certain team develop an intense desire to do well and an appreciation for the privilege of playing when their time does finally come, that doesnt happen when exceptions begin to occur because of ability and status. As a parent I would be careful about moving younger kids into the high school ranks, its usually not a pretty sight! Many times its the not because the MS'ers are so good but because the HS ranks are so low!

Mayo is a good example!

How would it have hurt Mayo to stay at the middle school level and focus on becoming more of a team player during the middle school season?

Could he have refrained from shooting and focused on passing and developing plays for his teammates. The coach could always turn him lose in a close game. His travel teams I'm sure traveled extensively playing the best nationally allowing him to develop his offensive skills. I think people are missing the point of developing talent at the expense of others, high school aged kids for the sake of winning high school sports. Life doesnt start and end with high school sports. Most sports have much more competitive off season competition for the more advanced players. I say let kids grow with kids their own age.

I dont know Mayo, I have no idea what kind of kid he is, what kind of attitude he has towards his game or his team, what his grades were like during ms or hs, my point is there are things to learn by playing with kids your own age and learning how to co-exist. Kids the caliber of Mayo come along about once every 20 yrs, and he would have been fine playing with his age group. Did he play up with the 18 and unders as a 14yr old for travel ball?

Considering the student athlete part of this equation, I think that is still a part of high school sports, are the middle schoolers required to pass high school equivalent classes to prove they can perform at the same level academically as the high school kids?

Middle schoolers are not under the same pressures as high school aged kids.

Let these middle school wonders attend high school, if they can pass the classes, then they should be allowed to compete, if they are not enrolled and taking high school classes they should not be competing? Let them deal with the same classes the same peer pressures as the high school kids and if they can pass it and still want to compete, sign em up.

Does the KHSAA even check the middle school kids for academic eligibility?

Whose ego is driving these decisions, the kids or the parents or some coach?

It should because they are playing in a leauge with only 4 other schools with a comparable number or students in the student body.

No one has suggested that the large school reduce the number of students in their enrollment, only suggestions as to how they operate relative to sports within the KHSAA Class system.

I have already stated let them become as large as they like, I think I said 10,000 all male students. At what point are the enrollment numbers excessive to the point of being considered unfair, 2000 vs 700, 3000 vs 700, 5000, then would anyone agree they should have more than one team?

I compliment Peprock for discussing this issue most folks refuse to discuss it.

Your passion for your school is commendable, but no less than mine!

Sorry to disgust, but I disagree, the big 2 at least could afford it.

It could, should and would work!

Mom is right, schools not that big in relation to others.

I wouldnt change the size of the school no one has suggested that, T and X are awesome schools. I say let them get as big as they want I wouldnt care if they had 10,000 students but then would they still only have one athletic team?

No time for semantics, say what you mean, mean what you say!

One other alternative is a twist on what "Runfirst" suggested, combine schools to increase numbers similar to that of the largest. But that wouldnt benefit the kids at all. I am guessing the Manual/Male alum's would love to have those two schools back together again, could make the new super power in high school sports, but ask the kids and I think they want to play more not watch and cheer more.

I hear ya pep!

Two different sides, I agree, but not sure the resolution is the difference in the two sides.

Do we even agree that there is a problem to solve with unfair advantage in enrollments?

haha cmon competition is what its all about!

Wouldnt this increase the brotherhood, rooting for more kids from the same brotherhood?

Runfirst - interesting concept but due to geographies probably not realistic.

Peprock1- since you mention Trinity,

Football - perhaps they could share their practice field or alternate teams practicing on their field on campus.

Baseball - not sure what their current arrangement is but I feel sure they could alternate/share their existing facility or secure the use of a field or yes invest money to buy land similar to what Collegiate and Assumption have done. Both landlocked campuses making the best of their situation.

I think the real burden of this arrangement would be on the public schools.

But think about it, under this arrangement a school could grow as large as it likes and just keep adding teams as needed to maintain fairness.

I agree sports is a privilege not a right, but a privilege realistically offered to all not just the selected few, note the word realistically. This is high school sports for young adults who are still kids, growing and developing. I'm not suggesting every one gets to play regardless, never have and never would, but a problem exist and this solution is viable and would resolve it and provide better opportunities to more kids.

Difficult to implement such a concept because it would be new and different than the current, but I believe it would quickly become the accepted norm. Two of everything yes but only because the schools are so large. They are large enough to accommodate the students in the classroom they should and would be able to manage the sports aspect too. If schools are allowed to continue to become so large then they have to find a way to offer more of their student’s opportunities to compete with other schools at the varsity level. This should be as much about the kids having more opportunity as it is about competitive fairness.

Politics usually means common sense goes out the window especially in Kentucky. Explanations are not required and will never be provided.

Excessive enrollment- How bout this idea?

The answer to any "AAAA" schools excessive enrollment advantage could be for them to field two teams. When any "AAAA" school reaches a certain % of more students then the average of the competing schools they could be required to field two teams. They could randomly assign each student by a third party to an athletic division within their school and their assigned division is the team they would play for in any sport with classifications for their 4 yrs.

Granted it would be more expensive for those schools and create scheduling issues etc... but it could be done. It would level the playing field regarding enrollment and offer twice as many kids at those schools a chance to compete. Consider what would be best for the kids!

The class system does a fair job of keeping the enrollment comparable up to the largest schools. Its there within the largest schools excess that you have an imbalance that needs to be addressed. Sure some smaller schools compete with schools with twice as many students but its within scale.

The recruiting battle will rage on forever. ALL schools are always going to look for ways to get kids to come to their school inside or outside of the regulations. I cant think of anything that could stop recruiting but at least the size disparity could be managed better.

Opening round of state, could be a few jitters coming in to play here!

I take PRP because of a little better strength of schedule and a solid top to bottom lineup. Boyd has had a great season though and could easily come away with a victory.

Regarding video for baseball, I would love to be able to watch video of a pitcher or key hitters leading up to a state tournament.

With all this consolidation being considered and the savings with operating one facility versus 3 or 4 and fewer fields, gyms, coaches etcc... what is the cost to the kids of having only 25% - 33% of them participating in Varsity Athletics?

If you really get to talking to the parents of the kids at these giant same sex schools about the experience with athletics it wont take long to hear the complaints about lack of playing time or not making the team. The education is excellent but they are not the only schools offering excellent education. Many of the public school have excellent programs to offer and many kids take advantage of it. My point is the opportunities are available in the public schools for the kids willing to take advantage of it. Because you have such a diverse mix of kids in the public schools the overall result is not as impressive as the Private Schools but the overall experience of the public schools provides qualities the Private Schools cant match either good and bad much like the real world.