SoftballFan14

She may have been. I will defer to you since you know everything about Northern Kentucky softball and some. The facts have been discussed ad nauseum on here and you and others just like to continue the fight. We all get it that Coach Coffey did not get his dues paid THIS YEAR of all years and his girls unfortunately paid the price.

 

We all know they were not even considered for POY because he did not pay his dues. Period end of story.

I'm not continuing any fight, I'm asking your opinion since you know the real story......Teach those of us that don't!!

Thanks for taking care of my light work. Amazing how some lurk on these airwaves to take as many potshots as possible. I believe player of the year was Baugh of Notre Dame and the coach was Stephenson of Notre Dame. Were they the best in the 9th region? Obviously to Dallas they were, but those that know the real story can think otherwise.

Obviously to you Baugh wasn't the best. Who is your POY since you seem to be the "real story" guru?

huh??? What are you talking about? Not even close to what you're trying to connect here.

Oh okay, because you say the situations aren't even close. Hypocrisy at its finest

I have no idea if they knew she was a bball player or not. I said "I don't know how they would know". I can tell you will all honesty that Jaime had no idea she was even coming til lat in the process. Jaime doesn't get caught up in rumors. She's a "I'll believe it when I see it" type of person. So it wouldn't have been Jaime prepping any of the administrators! I can promise you that.

 

As far as conversations...there are no facts. I can tell you that ANY coach (this situation included) has told any player or parent that they cannot talk to them about their program until their kid is enrolled. What people see is converstations and ASSUME what's being said. But they don't realize there may be previous relationships there OR just maybe that coach they are talking to coached that person's older daughter in the past. But I can promise you the facts are "I cannot talk to you about that subject until your daughter is enrolled at Highlands" would have and been part of that conversation if it came up. That's the facts! Do people talk, sure. What is said is the key. I know what was said. Everyone is trying to get HHS. We expect it. Thats why we are told to follow such stringent processes when it comes to this stuff.

 

And how soon you forget...didn't NCC just get a transfer last year that starts for them? HHS hasn't had a transfer in girls bball in 10 years!!!

 

As for your inquiry about your daughter, I did forget to mention. You could have been told they weren't accepting any tuition student at the time. It all depends on when you called as well. There is an open enrollment window for students that wish to apply. If you are outside that window (timeframe), there is a chance you would get told "we are not accepting applications at this time" The window is not opened very long (because they get flooded with applications) and outside of that window, I'm sure that's the answer you'd get.

So in this case......Inclusion SHOULD be driven by conditions??

Did Martin play for Coach Levandusky? Could this be about 3 coaching changes in 4 years?

No.

Sorry. Came up with 10 that would have been deserving of consideration.

 

Haley MEYERS

Gabby Stewart

Kenzie Dickerson

Haley Coffey

Shelby Graybill

Brennah Dutcher

Bailey Spencer

Aleah Tucker

Kaylee McGinn

Jada Collins

Even though I didn't see but two games this season, from knowledge of her game and seeing posts that seem to indicate her game is just as good this year....Branson should probably make the list too.

It's a shame they weren't all considered. What 6-7 players would you have nominated, if there wasn't a gap in the process?

Congrats to all the winners!!

So life gives us conditions huh. Then why didn't you apply that logic when you were pointing out the kids that don't have travel ball opportunities? Life gives us conditions right?

 

What are you talking about. You did send your kid to an elite school that I don't believe you lived near.

 

So what I'm hearing out of you two is that you are fine that not every deserving kid is not considered. "Well if their coach doesn't sing up, well tough luck!" Really, we shouldn't put a solution in place (whether it's inside this committee or not) that allows us to make sure every deserving kid is included. So a kid that doesn't have a coach as a member will not get nominated by her coach, there will be no stats or facts provided and she has ton"hope" that another coach in her region nominates her? Is that what we really want all state honors to come down to? A worthy player crossing her finger in hopes that an opposing region coach thinks about her when he submits his nominees? I really can even believe I have to defend my belief that we should make is as easy as possible to ensure the final ballot truly has all the candidates on it that should be considered.

 

As far as the vote last year...really??? I cannot even believe you just said that. You more than anyone know how often I took up for your kid, respect your kid and defended your decision to transfer schools when many others were attacking. In fact I'm the one that stood up in one of the NKy coaches meeting and said I was embarrassed to be a part of a committee that was obviously holding grudges and not truly putting the kids first when your kid who was clearly one of the best players was voted to second team in our regional voting. So you can have all your fun on here and not lose any sleep because I'm sure you know that I supported you kid til the end. But hey, have your fun.

Of course conditions in life keep kids from being involved in sports that may lead them to opportunities past high school. I stated that I found it sad if some of those opportunities were not helped by a high school coach being the contact for the player with colleges. It went back to that sell your players to the association for awards, sell your player to colleges to extend their athletic career. You, Coach, are the the one that made the statement about inclusion shouldn't have conditions.

I sent my daughter to a PRIVATE school....therefore, we knew of the expected condition of tuition. However, your school is public. Tuition is not a normal inclusive condition for public schools. So your statement regarding "Inclusion should not have conditions" is slightly hypocritical, IMO.

NO!!!!! I am NOT fine with kids that are deserving of awards not being included in being nominated and potentially winning those awards. THAT IS WHY I CALLED OUT THE MAJORITY OF THE 9TH REGION COACHES FOR NOT BEING MEMBERS OF THE KSCA SO THAT ALL THE PLAYERS WERE AFFORDED THIS OPPORTUNITY!!! You and I agree on the fact they all should be!! Where we don't agree is that you feel coaches shouldn't be required to be members to get their kids nominated............I feel they should have to follow same rules all members have & those rules are to be members by paying a nominal fee & to attend a couple meetings. For what the girls put in on the field & in the classroom (since there are academic awards given too), I don't feel that is too much to ask of a coach and school to be a part of.

Really.......you ask me really??? My statement regarding the vote last year was a response to your statement "Everyone will say 'Sure, I'd nominate a deserving kid,' but when it comes down to reality & it's an arch rival & you have a kid in the running, will it really happen. I highly doubt it." So, as a rival player from that statement I merely assumed that my kid didn't get your vote. But no worries!!! Even if she didn't get it, doesn't upset me or her. That was all that was about. You had your players that you were responsible for.

Your response to me above is one of those deflections I noted you being good for before....but let's do this since you opened the can of worms!

In my responses to you this entire thread, never once have I questioned your honesty or straightforwardness, your respect for my kid, or remotely indicated that you ever negatively spoke of my kid. I wouldn't have ever expected that of you, therefore I am not going to hint to that. As for anyone needing to "defend" our decision....NEVER have I needed or asked for anyone to defend or even agree with it. For that matter, I do not care what ANYONE outside of my house felt about that move.

I will have fun when the schools and coaches in this area finally stop self exclusion from award & all star game opportunities throughout the state for their girls.

no no no. I'm saying...there needs to be a solution to include all the kids. Period. That's my whole discussion point. Inclusion shouldn't be driven by conditions (like whether your coach is a member or not). A kid has no control on whether her coach is a member and should still have the ability to be nominated by someone that can tell her story. You and others can say "there is a way". Okay, technically there is. Kids from non-member schools can be nominated. Sure. But how often is that going to really happen (especially if that coach has a competing player). Everyone will say "Sure, I'd nominate an deserving kid", but when it comes down to reality and it's an arch rival and you have a kid in the running, will it really happen. I highly doubt it. And even if it did, how is that opposing player's case made vs the others? So unless you involve someone that has the facts and full understanding of the player (which won't be an opposing region coach), then they really do not have the opportunity...even if they would find their way on to a ballot somehow.

 

Again, what is the harm in taking nominations from any head coach...member or not? What issues do we see with that proposal that aren't easily overcome?

"Inclusion shouldn't be driven by conditions"..............Coach, you need to move out of NKY to Disneyland because I believe you've inhaled a little too much of Tinkerbell's fairy dust!

Life gives us conditions!!! There are conditions to everything we do!! If I had ever thought of sending my kid to the elite school known as Highlands.....there would have been conditions! We don't live in that area. Or are you saying, we wouldn't have any conditions to meet? Tuition isn't a condition?

So, you are saying that a rival coach wouldn't nominate or vote for kids in their region against their own players? So, safe to say, last year when you WERE a member, my kid probably didn't get your vote? Cause we are rivals.... Mmmmm, don't think she or I will lose sleep if that's the case; however, it's silly to think that everyone's vote will actually go to the BEST player over their own player. Those kids become your own...as a parent, I would WANT my coach to have the same interest in my kid as I did BUT would certainly understand if mine didn't win the POPULARITY contest. Which in reality, this is what these awards boil down too!! WE ALL KNOW THAT!!!

Well I think being willing to expose a gap publicly on any forum is the first step to doing something about it. I obviously can't do a thing about it this year because I'm not a member. And as I stated, it really was just exposed to me because my kids will suffer this year. I have been a member in the past so I didn't realize the gap in the process. Now I do. So to answer your question, yes, I will absolutely bring it up. I'm not shy and I am obviously passionate about the issue. I don't feel you have to run for office to influence change, so I wouldn't do that.

 

And to your other part. Wouldn't this be an avenue to get a kid exposure that doesn't play travel ball? (If they were deserving of the honor) Well right now only 43% of the schools are represented. If they allowed anyone to be nominated, all kids would at least get a chance to get some exposure.

Obviously I don't have a problem exposing things either, or else I wouldn't have called out the entire 9th Region for embarrassing membership numbers. You becoming a member and voicing your opinion on how you think things would be better is definitely a start.

I 100% believe this would be an avenue for a kid not playing travel ball to get exposure; however, I do not find it the associations responsibility to ensure every player is afforded the opportunity for recognition. They have opened it to THE ENTIRE STATE for membership............the final responsibility lies on the school and coaches back to do the rest (paying membership fees & attending meetings). The association has not excluded anyone, the schools have excluded themselves thus excluding the players.

"Not afforded the opportunity to play travel ball?" What? Anyone can play travel ball. Many kids who aren't college material play travel ball. If a kid wants to play in college, they need to seek out opportunities to play and showcase themselves for college coaches. I can't imagine there are many college players who only played softball 3 months a year, and only in high school. Only exception might be 2 or 3 sport athletes.

 

High school ball alone doesn't tell a coach that a girl can play at the next level. That's not unfortunate, that's a fact.

Maybe where you are from, all the kids can afford travel ball & there's a fully intact family dynamic........

"Not afforded the opportunity"............

1. Lack of financial ability

2. Broken home

3. Lack of transportation

4. Lack of interest or commitment by one or more parent

The list can go on of "not afforded"....if there is a kid that is athletically capable of playing at the next level, whether it is JUCO to D1, I would find it HIGHLY unfortunate if the high school coach did not help in every possible way of assisting that player fulfill their desire.

What are you taking about?? The kids that don't play travel ball have exactly the same opportunity as the kids that do. However they are up against some greater obstacles. Experience and exposure. Unfortunately in today's world with travel teams playing year round, those are tough obstacles to overcome. (But you probably knew that already, but I'm always happy to help educate).

 

And again...what are you taking about with the deflect and forget??? Deflect and forget what? Ask direct questions and I will answer anything you want me to. I'm one of the most honest and straight forward person on this thing and I don't hide behind my screen name. Some just don't like the answers and some don't like to be challenged. That's not me.

Went back and re-read my posts and you got me....I didn't ask this as a direct question, so let me now....

Since you seem to have issues with the way the association is currently being ran (because you aren't opposed to it), does that mean next year or in the near future even you plan on running for board member so that you can help change it to how you feel it should be ran?

Come on now Coach, getting a little defensive with the need to say you are the most honest and straight forward person..........no where in my posts have I ever indicated that you weren't or that you were hiding behind your screen name. I know who you are obviously & have no problems with you. My problem is when people (happens this time to be you) complain but aren't willing to be a part of the solution to change what they feel is wrong, simple as that.

I can can only speak for my kids. The last 5 seniors we have are playing at the next level. Most of that is because of travel ball. But I have spoke with coaches. About all of them and continue to for our younger kids. The problem isn't with the high school coaches, it's the colleges really could care less about high school sports anymore. You VERY RARELY see any college coaches at high school games and if you do, it's because they have already expressed interest and reached out and are actively recruiting the kid. Very rarely do you see any college coaches going to high school games to discover a kid. I have tried to set up local networks with local colleges to let them know when I have a kid that may fit their program coming up. There is really only two that have even shown the slightest interest in that. They just get way more bang for their buck going to travel events and they just don't trust high school competition. I'm sure several coaches have done the same thing and experienced the same thing. Some may have had more success than others. My daughter just went through the recruiting stuff. Any local coach that was after her I tried to create a pipeline with. After she committed, I don't really hear anything from most of them. I'm not blaming them. Like I said, they get more out of travel tournaments and trust evaluating kids against like talent much more than having a network of high school coaches like the old days.

Thank you for the recruiting tutorial, I'm fairly familiar with it though.

The only part I wasn't familiar with is that is sounds like the kids not afforded the opportunity to play travel ball.....probably don't have the opportunity to play past their high school career if they desire to. That to me is unfortunate.

Nice skirt around any KSCA discussion. Deflect & forget...

First, I'm not opposed to how it's run. They can do whatever they want. That's why its an association with membership. They get to make the rules for themselves like any other club, association or organization. I'm opposed to any solution for recognizing such an esteemed award that doesn't include all kids without conditions being met. If any "member's only" association chooses to take that on for the state, then, in my opinion, it should find a way to include everyone. I'm not saying this association has to be that, but they do market it as THE All State selections for the state of KY. I'm saying the process this association has does not include everyone and it's truly not an All State award. Only about 43% of the high school head coaches are members.

 

I don't care who owns the process. I'm saying that whoever volunteers for that task, should include all players.

 

Ill answer your question if you answer mine. I will join because it appears I have to in order to get recognition for my kids...just like I did in other years.

 

Now answer the question I've been asking. There are 129 head coaches in the association this year. If there are 300 schools in KY, that comes to about 43% of the schools represented in the association. So my question...what is the harm in letting all coaches nominate any player they feel is deserving?

As I am not a part of that association, nor can I be because I am not a coach, I can merely speculate as to why the association is setup as it is.......it's founding board and members discussed and voted for the membership deadlines, nomination and voting rights??? I would suspect they find "no harm" in allowing anyone being nominated, but their association RULES set it up that non-members do not vote or nominate. Life gives us an abundance of rules to follow....if we don't like those rules then we become part of the solution to change them, or we continue to argue why they are wrong and do nothing. But that's tiring.

As for your travel ball coaches are selling their players for thousands of dollars in scholarships....guess high school coaches don't do that for the kids that for whatever reason do not have the opportunity to play travel ball and be seen by a lot of college coaches. That's a truly sad situation!

You sell your kids to colleges in travel ball for thousands of dollars in scholarship money. All state is an individual honor, not a monetary reward. The play on the field should "sell" the honor. Not whether anyone joined an association. Again, what's the harm in taking nominations from any coach? Otherwise you are forcing the hands of someone to pay the dues and join just to get a kid recognition. That's like the inner city kid that could never play golf because he couldn't join the country club. It's not all state unless all players are considered. I'm sure there are many reasons why coaches can't be a part of the committee. Some lazy, some don't have time, some don't care, but some may be legit reasons. Regardless of any of those, the kid should still have a chance to be a part of the consideration.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that since you are so opposed as to how the association is ran that next year you will not be a member? Or you just like to discuss constantly with the same repeated answers on most subjects that you differ opinion about?

Anyways, if you are that opposed as to how the association does it.....become a member and fight for a change in the system. My guess is though, you'll just keep arguing your case here, where nothing can change.

Good luck to all the teams in the upcoming region games!!

I understand most of that. But if you're going to take on the responsibility, then it's the job of the association to take on the responsibility that no kid is left off. I could understand restricting the voting to only the ones that pay the dues. But any kid should be able to be nominated by anyone, not just committee members. How hard would it be to send the emails to all coaches and ask "Coach, do you have any players we should consider for all state nomination?" Gather the list of players and then have the committee vote.

 

It's my guess is today you have coaches joining in years when they have good players and skipping years when they don't. So that makes it feel like you are paying for a nominee and a vote. Rather than really making it about ALL the kids.

Whoa, totally on the opposite side of this one with you Coach!!! It is NOT the job of the association to ensure that each girl has the opportunity to be included in these awards. That is the job of the coach & I can even jump on the wagon of AD being responsible to ensure the coaches are registered members of the association. The association is out there and available to every team in the state, coaches just have to put in the time and effort to afford their kids the opportunity by being a member. The kids do their jobs by getting on the field and playing to the best of their ability & showcasing themselves. If I had to take a guess as to why we have poor 9th region participation in the KSCA, it is because the coaches don't want to or don't have time to drive to the meetings and participate. I can tell you a couple of weeks ago, I would have much rather had the weekend afternoon with my husband rather than him going to Franklin County for the All-State meeting, but it is his responsibility as part of the coaching staff to attend. It's part of every school/coaches responsibility to be a part of any association that will get recognition to the players!

And Coach it's great that the past two years you've been a part of the association, unfortunately this year you weren't. Hopefully the association knows enough about your girls from the past two years and your state showcasing you have done with your schedule, that they get some votes despite the oversight for this season.

It's the same as travel ball coaches.........they SELL their players to colleges. You SELL your players to the association!

Sums it up, right there....I would add that it doesn't END in HS, as well....as far as coaches "selling" their players, it is natural in an awards environment, IMO....HS stats are wildly inconsistent and inaccurate due to inconsistent, inaccurate, ignorant, and even unethical scorekeepers, so that just can not be used as a basis for any type of legitimate award, so there has to be a subjective element involved, as well...the whole "good ol' boy" mentality will always be there for and against certain teams, players and coaches...when my DD played, it was no different (she played for Bloomer, for god's sake :lol2:)...The only remedy is to join in, and be an influence for your players....the NKY area has a pretty unique thing going, and it is great, but as an outside observer (with a few connections), it seems to me that the area has isolated itself from the State, as a whole, in these regards...with the exception of a few that I have seen on here...even this site was pretty well exclusive to the 9th & 10th when I joined a few years back...KY HS softball is territorial, like about everything else...I'd love to see the NKY territory, which is already VERY organized, join in with the WKY Mafia, the Ballard Over-Hype Machine, the Louisville Area City Slickers, the Ashland Hill People, etc., and start "selling" these players statewide.

 

Carry on

I've missed your insight Heavy!!

I say join in or campaign for a change if you don't like the way something is & don't agree.

Nope! I'm saying the KHSAA should have control of it and make it fair for every kid to be eligible. If its an "all state" award, that's how it should be. Not "all state" (for those that have joined an association).

KHSAA already has significant amount of responsibilities and as we've all seen KHSAA bashed as much as coaches. Do you really want awards placed in their control too?

Maybe I'll just have to stop by your house next time I'm on your street with deliveries. :thumb:

Stop the threats!!! :isurrender:

I understand what you're saying but my point was why do you need an association to given kids their due? Why do you have to be a part of an association to nominate a deserving kid? Why do I have to "sell" my player. I played all over the state to showcase them. And I can provide their stats to small description to anyone. Jo kid should be eliminated from consideration.

 

And I did email them. I have been a member for the last two years and I explained there was some confusion. All I got was it was too late. I have multiple emails trying to get in and track down the right person to finally be told it was too late.

 

It's my fault I didn't make 100% sure we mailed in my registration. But I have never understood why there is a need to be a part of an association to receive an award that every kid in the state should have the honor of being eligible for. I'm not sure how you can call it all-state when not all kids are eligible from the beginning.

 

And the good ole boy definitely happens and the emails fly after everything is distributed for voting. It feels like an election year with all the campaigning. I don't agree with that either. But I'm not on the association, so be it!

Sports is like politics, & it's not isolated to softball & it doesn't start in high school!

So, you are in a sense saying that players not part of the association should win awards & have those plaques & end of year event invites (all stars & banquet) paid for by schools that have paid dues while their school has not, because all players should be eligible for awards?

Okay. Yes, there was an internal misunderstanding and my registration was never sent. Once I realized I wasn't getting the email updates as usual, I tried to get in and was told it was too late. But I didn't realize this was part of that as well.

 

One thing I never really understood though...why is it ever too late to join? And why do you have to be a part of the committee to give a student athlete an award they may deserve. Shouldn't all players be eligible for an all-state nomination, regardless if their coach signed up for an association or not?

If a coach isn't part of the association to "sell" their players to the other association members, how do you think those teams in the other regions know who from each region to select? IMO it's all a I'll pat your back, if you pat my back ol' boys network........but the players and families aren't aware of that, so means a lot to them. In the end, it's about the girls anyway....or should be at least.

As far as why they don't accept late memberships, I would assume because it was voted for there to be a deadline and since open enrollment goes from July to March, right before season starts, the board and members feel that is sufficient amount of time to get enrollment in if the school is interested? I would suspect though that if you emailed the association they would answer why they don't rather than go by my lowly speculation Maybe it also has to do with the voting for weekly standings? They want everyone participating from the start? Maybe some schools would pick and choose what to participate in and end up merely participating in the end of year awards?

Not saying you would do any of that Coach, just my thoughts on the overall subject.

LOL!!! In Evansville and beyond

Is this thread about the State East/West All Stars or about NKY All Stars?

No, it is part of the KSCA just like the all state nominations. Appears membership by 9th region dropped to all time low this season & girls represented by a whopping 3 coaches. I know when the meeting for these nominations occurred....one 9th region team was in attendance.

KSCA Members

:lol:

 

Most would probably never believe I used to have long, curly shoulder length hair, 80's hair-metal style. :eek:

Like this??? :scared: