redcrossave

I was at this game also it seemed like Holmes coaches were bellyaching a lot to the refs about every little call. It was almost like they couldn't believe that tiny Gallatin could stay with them. Other than that it was a great game with tons of action and drama from a summer game. I can't make it today but I would like to be there yesterday there was a lot of action and all for only 3 bucks.

Didn't realize when you posted on here that people weren't allowed to question you. :confused: If you've been involved in one way or another for 30 years you may well be qualified, you didn't state that in your first post. Also no where in my post did I say they had done a good or bad job, I just said they are doing their job, you added the qualifiers.

The last I looked you questioned me first am I not allowed to question you? Did anyone answer my question about would refs do it if they didn't get paid? It is easy to take up for most refs they do a great job, but the ones who showboat and act like the fans come to see them gives all refs a black eye. I wasn't just talking to you atm10 there are other posters on this thread. I qualified my statement by saying it was not about bad or good calls and you have clearly answered other post on this thread talking about certain calls being made. Did you answer my question about weather you or any other person on this thread has questioned a call out loud before? I notice that most of you have gone quiet on this point. Lets face it we are all hypocrits I started this because I was mad at a call and wanted to call to task the official who made the call. You guys getting on here and defending the officials from the Franklin Co. game are killing me. These guys blew it and you know it. I think that I have hit a nerve with a lot of officials on this thread and now you guys need to start another thread about the obnoxious fans or whoever that gets started about every 3 weeks.

How do you know that they don't do it well? What is your expertise in you deciding whether of not it is done well? If you mess up at your job you have someone that you work for or with and who knows your line of work determining that you messed up. Not someone from down the street at another place of business or someone who doesn't even know your job well enough to make an evaluation. The ref's that are getting regional games have been evaluated and rated by those they work with and for (the coaches). So apparently they are doing their job!

What qualifies you to say they have done well? I can tell you that my experience is almost 30 years involved with the game in one capacity or another. Don't question me because if you will notice to begin with this was not about bad or good officiating, it was about refs who think people come to watch them ref. Then some people took it off course with the bad call stuff. There are bad referees out there and if you say you have never questioned a call in your life or yelled at a ref then you and all who say they havn't should be inducted into the FSC.

No, but it would definately make people accountable. Easy to

criticize a program, coaches, and all their so called D1 players

when you don't have to play them. Ryle was ranked 4th and 5th

the entire year by the coaches and was one of the two teams

remaining. They have nothing to be ashamed of. By the way the

top 7 players return and now they have Big Game experience.

I was told by CKShokey that the Ryle team did have 3 D1 prospects in an earlier post and I am sure she would know.

Oh for Pete's sake...where to start.

 

First of all, classification for football means nothing here in basketball. According to the 2009 student populations that I could find for each district...

 

Gallatin 443 students

Carroll 520

Owen 601

Henry 636

 

Now, I know Gallatin, Carroll and Owen all competed in this year's "All-A" tournament at Walton, so I guess that means they're part of your 125 smallest. Which means Henry County "missed" by just 35 kids. So, okay...I concede your point...they're not an "All A" district. :isurrender:

 

The POINT however, was that competing against those three schools in a district tournament, is a heck of a lot easier, year in and year out, than having to go up against a South Oldham (pop. 1011) and Oldham County (pop. 1270).

No doubt on that not that Gallatin wouldn't have been just as many times if the districts hadn't changed. I guess what I am saying on this who Grants next coach will be thread is that their district was made easier also and they have not taken near the advantage of that as they should have. Cinysportsfan I agree with you on a lot of your post, was just getting tired of hearing all that all a district nonsense.

This hit a nerve.

 

Just wondering if any of you have noticed that some insurance salespeople think that the crowd comes to see them more than they come to see the actual claim? What are your opinions on this?

 

Just wondering if any of you have noticed that some doctors think that the crowd comes to see them more than they come to see the actual patient? What are your opinions on this?

 

Just wondering if any of you have noticed that some chemists think that the crowd comes to see them more than they come to see the actual lab experiment? What are your opinions on this?

 

The difference is the crowd. No one goes to watch a protology exam or a stirring arbitration hearing. It is basketball or football or whatever the sport-it is a spectator sport. And just like the players try to act like Lebron or Koby and the coaches act like Pitino and Calipari, the refs try to act like Burr and Hightower.

Funny you never hear Gino Auriemma or John Wooden complaining about referees.

 

Referees are there to provide a fair contest for all and penalize those who don't abide by the rules. Like doctors, insurance agents, and chemists, there may be some that get out of hand. But they do a thankless job for little or no pay, but love the game. But their few mistakes are right there for everyone to see. Give them a break- or invite them over to boo you in your job!

Sorry for venting.

Little or no money, if they had to do it for free how many of them would be refs? The refs have a job to do and some do it well but if your paid for a job and don't do it well you should not be allowed to do it. If I mess up at my job I am held accountable but what you bgpers are telling me is that refs don't have to be held to the same standards as every other working stiff. That my friends is total bunk.

Mack...I'm not going to debate the winning that Coach Jones and the Cats have done over the past several years. Everything you have pointed out is true. However, I would like to go over what I think SM was trying to express.

 

First of all, I think all will agree that Coach Jones does do an excellent job and his players believe in him and his system. No doubt about this one.

 

With regards to his program "taking off" after redistricting took place...it depends on what you're using as a measuring stick. Did the Cats have some quality teams and post some big wins when Oldham and South were in the district? Sure. But, I think SM's point was that getting out of the district was really, really tough. From 2001-2005, Oldham and South Oldham were either the district winner or the runner-up. None of the Class A schools in that district made it to the regional (Gallatin, Carroll or Trimble)

 

So, SM's point about them starting to win districts (4 out of the last 5) after the redistricting occurred is very much accurate. In fact, the same could be said about the Owen County squad. After failing to win a district game for many, many years, suddenly the Rebels have gone to the region the past three years. Good coaching? Yes. Good players? Yes. A more "equal" district to compete in? Yes.

 

In fact, SM points out the many wins that you have gone into great detail about in your post. So, I don't think his intention was to slight Gallatin County in any way. But to blindly say they haven't benefitted from being in an "all A" district, would be wrong.

That is where you are wrong it is not an all A district. Gallatin by far is the smallest school in the district Owen and Carrol are 2A in football and Henry is 3A. In the past 3 years Owen was not in the all A and last year neither was Henry. It is not a true all A anymore it is the top 125 smallest schools.

I don't know if you're right or not, but I think this might be Coach Jones' best coaching year. In the past, he's had some "superstars" (Dewayne Webb, Kyle Booth, Trent Maddox) that have helped anchor his teams. Some probably had more individual talent than this year's squad.

 

But for him to do what he did this year, with a player not over 6' on the squad, really says something to me. The concept of "team ball" was never more evident than this year. Seemed like every night there was somebody else that stepped up and made the "big play".

Correct me if I am wrong I don't think Coach Jones has ever won the coach of the year in the 8th region. Year in and year out he does more than most of the supposed big schools with talent that may not always be the best.

This should've been a no call plain and simple. There was no contact at all when the shot was released. If there was any contact at all it came as Jackson was coming down and kicked his leg out ala Reggie Miller. The contact did not effect the shot at all and the official should have let the players settled the outcome in overtime. A good officiating crew is the one in which no one knows that they were even part of the game. Everyone left the gym last night talking about the officials instead of a group of kids from both teams that left their hearts and souls out there on the floor. That is the real shame of it all!!!!

Great Post!!!

Thanks for the clip. Disinterested viewpoint here.

 

1. Zero chance anyone can look at that video and say whether there was a foul. The defender was close enough that I would say unless you were courtside, you can't say if it was a foul or not. It definitely is not obvious one way or the other. The shot did fall well short which usually means the shooter was hit to cause it to go short but there isn't anything on the video to back that up.

 

2. Yes, it did get South Oldham the win but it was a tie game when the foul was called. The point being Gallatin County wasn't going to win if there was no foul called. The best Gallatin could hope for was going to overtime and there is obviously no guarantee they would win if it did.

 

Bottom line ... it was a judgement call, the official saw a foul and to me it looks like there may have been one.

Taking a 23 foot off ballanced fall away jumper with time running out usually makes for a short shot. A courtside view from SO endzone says there was no foul just a horrible call that can't be called unless you were ready for the long trip back to Louisville and didn't want the OT call.

My intent was not to start a debate on officials costing teams games. The thread was started to take to task those officials, and we have all seen them, who like to blow the whistle, or talk to the fans, or make a show of the game so that it becomes more about them than the game and the kids on the court. Cincysportsfan I might know who you are talking about but there are others. I have seen 2 officials in the 8th explaining why they made a call to fans in the stand. It is not about the fans or the refs it is about the players.

Just wondering if any of you have noticed that some refs think that the crowd comes to see them ref more than they come to see the actual game? What is your opinions on this?

Just from an outsider looking in, it looks like there is too many parents that have power or a great deal of influence on the administration.

Edelen has been a steadying influence at NO. There has to be some issue with parents or at least administration if he was asked to step down. He has rumpled some feathers somewhere to remove such a good coach.

Thought Ryle was the underdog! How did your team do down in the 8th

Region? Sure the two coaches could schedule a game next year if you want to try and arrange it.

That sure would prove how much of an underdog Ryle was tonight wouldn't it.

Couldn't see it. I was on the floor at the other end. They called the foul under the basket at the far end of the court. With all the bodies in between, I couldn't even see the kid who was supposedly fouled. Good call / bad call - don't know.

 

I do know the whistle came pretty late, well after the final horn, but that doesn't really mean anything...

That is all good there was no foul tonight though and a whistle was blown.

I like Ligon and would love to see him return to the 8th. Great guy and good coach. But I can't imagine Ligon returning to Shelby County after the way he was dumped by Shelby County HS... The hint said "ICON"...is he an 8th region icon after three seasons at Shelby?... (How many seasons are required for "icon" status???)

 

Forrest is done. He is enjoying what he's doing now too much...he's traveling and teaching basketball camps to kids in places like China. I'd be shocked if he returned to full-time coaching.

 

Curtis Turley??? It is about time for him to move on from wherever he's at. Has Turley ever stayed anywhere more than three years?

Are you sure about Forrest I thought I saw him at the 8th region tournament, was he there to see some of the players that could be at Collins next year?

I think the South Oldham fans "feel your pain".

 

Shelby County 43, South Oldham 42 OT - girls' 8th region round 1 (Shelby hits two free throws with one second on the clock in OT)

Was there any contact on the foul?

Not intending disrespect of Gallatin at all. If you've read my posts throughout the year on Gallatin, you know I've been extremely high on this team, and I think Jon Jones is one of the best coaches around. Gallatin came out on fire and played well enough to win Monday night.

 

I also noted several times that I thought this game would be a close one...

 

Nor did I say that South's kids did take GC lightly, I said I "suspected" they did. I don't know that they did or didn't. In talking with Simpson before the game, he was getting this feeling from his kids. He was concerned that they had the previous game's score stuck in their heads. Maybe they didn't take GC lightly at all...but considering South's poor play at the beginning, I think it's definitely a possibility and the fact that they might have looked past Gallatin doesn't belittle Gallatin's effort one bit.

 

Regardless of how South's kids approached the game, Gallatin's early play in this game was outstanding.

 

There were definitely a few calls that could have gone either way, and during the game I saw a few puzzlers - like when Williamson fell on top of Jackson, who was diving on top of a ball, and Jackson got whistled for the foul. Weird. But it wasn't as if I saw a bunch of questionable calls all going one way. (but fans of a one of the two teams involved undoubtedly thought that all the calls were one-sided. Isn't that the way we're wired?) But I really don't think the game was decided by the refs.

 

Many things happen to a team during a game - most are within the control of the team. Bad calls usually pretty much even out between two teams. Any coach will tell you a bad call almost never decides a game. South could have made the final call irrelevant if they hit shots in the first. Gallatin could have made it irrelevant if they handled the ball better.

A phantom call with 4 tenths of a second is deciding the game.

You know, I'm not sure I really care much for the YouTube era as it pertains to HS sports. What good exactly has the Franklin County - Henry Clay video clip produced?? A lot of Franklin County fans who have reviewed it are more upset today than they were yesterday - and nothing can be changed.

 

Like every foul call ever made at any time during a game, this either was a good call or it wasn't - but regardless, it was called. There's no taking it back. Gallatin fans won't feel better if a video is produced that shows there was no contact on that final play. They'll feel worse.

 

Our sports world reflects society way too much. We don't want to be responsible; we want all bad things that happen to us to be someone else's fault.

I thought you were a radio guy and now I find out that you are a philosopher. When something is my fault I accept responsibility just like I expect everyone else to do including refs, kids adults or whoever. If I am Franklin Co. I feel way worse than GC did tonight because GC could still have lost the game in OT. If you don't put it on youtube doesn't take the sting away anymore it just might make someone more responsible for their actions.

OK, I'm NOT going to weigh in on whether or not the final foul was a real foul or a "ghost" one. Reasonable people will argue until the cows come home regarding that, but I'm going to say this:

 

The idea that the officials should swallow their whistles in the final minute is bogus. You play 32 minutes in a game. The officials should officiate for 32 minutes every game. A foul is a foul is a foul, regardless of when it comes - 1 second into the game or 1 second left. If the official thought he saw a foul, he should have blown the whistle without regard to who was shooting, who was winning, or what the time was. Was it a foul? We (the announcing crews) were too far away to really tell that easily. But if the official thought he saw a foul, he was correct in blowing the whistle.

 

In a way, it was ironic that it was South that benefitted from a late call. The South Oldham ladies were eliminated from the girls' 8th region tourney by a similar late call when the officials called a foul on South with 1 second left in overtime vs. Shelby County with South up one. Shelby's Ailiyah Wells hit two free throws to give the Lady Rockets the one point win.

 

Some other tidbits from the game...

 

1 - The game was called tight, but I don't think it was one-sided. South was whistled for 20 fouls; Gallatin 19. South shot 16 free throws; Gallatin shot 23. Pretty even. Of course, the idea that refs from the south side of Louisville care about either of these two teams is pretty funny, anyway.

 

2 - Rebounding and turnovers won the game for South. Forget the drama of the final minute. It wouldn't have existed had South not been so strong on the glass (particularly Chris Schumm, who unofficially had 15 rebounds) and forced so many turnovers. (unofficially, Gallatin with 21 turnovers compared to South's 10.)

 

3 - Gallatin out of the gate very, very strong - ultimately led by 19 at 26-7. But the 1-3-1 trap caused Gallatin an awful lot of problems, and South (after going 2 for 16 in the first period) shot 24 for 50 the rest of the way.

 

4 - A lot of us predicted that this would be a barnburner kind of game, but I truly think South's kids took this a little too lightly early on. They may not have consciously felt they did, but they're teenagers, and South won handily in Warsaw earlier in the year. South Coach Steve Simpson was worried about this before the game. As he pointed out, that was right after the All-A, and Gallatin was still dealing with the All-A disappointment and a bit down at the time. Simpson was right to worry.

 

5 - Kudos to the seniors for Gallatin who played so well in their final game. Zac Jones with 12 points and a bunch of rebounds. We had him 4 for 5 from the field. Bryce Carlton had 4 points, and Jake Giles two.

 

6 - Kudos to South for refusing to fold after a disastrous first period and early second period that saw them fall behind 26-7. South coach Steve Simpson replaced his entire team on the court, and the subs got things going for South, then the starters returned to rally the team. This was a rally like I haven't seen in the 8th region tournament in many, many years.

 

7 - Travis Davis of Gallatin with another ridiculously long three pointer. This kid's range is in the "unbelievable" category. But he got both of his threes tonight in the first quarter, and South pretty much denied him the looks the rest of the way. (He managed to try one three in each of the final three quarters - all misses.)

 

8 - South's length was an issue for Gallatin tonight. South's starters go 6'5", 6'4", 6'3", 6'4" and 5'11".

 

9 - Gallatin shot well (22 of 44, 50%) and hit 16 of 23 free throws (69.5%). Williamson had 14, Joel Carlton had 13, and Jones had 12. Davis and Morgan both had 9.

 

10 - South was led by Brice Jewett's 16, Carson Fields' 12, and Chris Schumm's 11 (plus 15 rebounds)

 

- Most exciting game of the tournament. This was a real treat for the fans. It was a shame a few disappointed Gallatin fans had to tarnish what was a tremendous effort by the two winningest teams in the region with a rather childish display of poor sportsmanship after the game. Sure, it was an emotional loss, but it's up to adults to be adults. Jon Jones' players, as always, did Gallatin proud. Too bad some of the adults didn't.

 

Best of luck to South Oldham in the final, and congrats to Jon Jones and the Gallatin County Wildcats for yet another tremendous season. The Wildcats are always a factor - and I expect they will be again next year.

Col.Mike I was expecting better from you. To diminish this great game by saying that SO took Gallatin lightly at the beginning of the game takes away from how hard GC played. Gallatin did not fold when South jumped on top in the second half they fought back hard and retook the lead. If a foul is a foul at anytime Jones was fouled on an attempt late then fouled again on the put back with no call. Carlton then fouled out on that play on the rebound. It was a great game that was decided by the Refs and not the kids which is the most disappointing thing to me.

I saw a big game a couple of years ago that was decided by a call with 2 tenths of a second left that decided a game so tonight's contest wasn't the first time. Most times the call is not made but I have seen it happen before.

 

Great season for the Wildcats and good luck to South Oldham.

When there was no contact.

I wasn't discrediting them at all. All I said was that the redistricting makes it easier to win the district due to the lack of a big school or two in their district. Any "A" school would love to be in a district with only one non-A school. Coach Jones has done a great job and I commend him and his Wildcats.

Big schools or not the last three years the 31st as a whole has done quite well in the regional big schools or not.

I guarantee Steve Simpson who is a class guy and a great coach told his players they got a gift. The question now is what do they do with it. Beat Shelby!

Gallatin County is the most fun team to watch in the 8th region. They play the game the way it should be - with heart and integrity. A solid fan base that cheer their butts off every night. I am proud of this team that no one gave a chance to at the beginning of the year. Good luck to SO tomorrow night. Good Job to the team especially the seniors Zac, Bryce, and Jake.

It was a good call. He was knocked over on his way down. South pushed through this time. Shelby tomorrow night at 7:00?

You have got to be kidding me the kid wasn't touched. The Ref was not the deciding factor in the game South may have won it in overtime but you have to let the kids play and not take that privilege away from them. This should have been OT.