DiggerBill

:confused: :sleep: No Need to fret in Mustangland, I believe someone last night said" Brossart probably does'nt want to win this one tonight"., LOL

So I guess no big deal.

RIGHT!!:confused:

:confused: Does anyone have any scores for today's( Dec. 28th ) games.

All of them please.

Thanks

:confused:

Lack of varsity experience normally translates into turnovers when kids are thrust onto the big stage the following year. Maybe they should have played some of these kids the last couple of years, instead of worrying about winning by 30-40 points every game??

 

Good win for Newport--Congrats!!

I don't think that they continually ran the score up as you might indicate.

The strength of schedule did not permit this. Last years stats would probably indicate a winning point margin of 10 or less, however, the year before might have been a little wider. Coach Biggs did not leave the starters in just to pad the score or stats. He played what he felt was the best players for the situation at hand.

In order to be the best you have to go through the best. Whether it be the Districts or the Regions. If Beechwood beats ND, then no problem. Opens the door a little wider for the possibility of going down state. Gets rid of one of their primary obstacles.

The debate will continue on for many years until the State makes a blanket policy, until then the Districts that do a blind draw will continue to have the controversy. I myself thinks that it evens the field a little bit for the smaller schools to have a chance to go to the Regions.

Having seen my fair amount of Ky. H.S. Basketball over the last several years, I really find it amazing that one of the truest point guards in the state was not even invited to try out. I realize that when choosing from the many HS seniors throughout the state it's very tough to include everyone,

but Tyler Mains epitomizes that true point guard position. Yes, there are several good players listed, but many might play the point on their respective team when in reality they are legitimately a 2 guard. Tyler has been groomed all of his life to be the point guard and he has done an admirable job.

IMO A.J. Slaugter, when do they announce this?

 

p.s. Big Zig, just an estimation, how many ice cream cones do you think you and batters box had over the four day's?

Let's do the math.

For the 1st two days, lets say 2 per session each= 16

Then slowing down say 1 per session on Friday = 4

Maybe a little early for Sat. Session so a pass on SAT. AM = 0

For the Grand Finale Sat. Evening 1 each could sneak a 2nd= 2 possibly 4

Total 22 Maybe 24

Between 2 Guys that alot of Ice Cream

I cant believe that in 3 pages of posts that noone has pointed out that consolidation is the main reason this is even a topic.

 

Someone mentioned Cuba and Carr Creek, do these schools exist today? How about Lexington, Union Academy, London, Corinth, Kavanaugh, Tolu, Horse Cave, just to name a few?

 

It's incredible to me that anyone can believe you can find 5 equally talented players in a group of 200 as easily as you can 2000. If you put 2000 Apples vs 200 Apples my chances of finding 5 better in that 2000 is much greater.

 

If numbers don't matter as some of you say. Why do we have Classes for Track? It's one on one for many of the events. And why does the winner of last years Class A 100 Meter Dash run no better than tied for 4th if he runs in Class AAA? Here we aren't looking for 5 on 5, 11 on 11, or 22 on 22. It's one on one baby, if it doesnt matter why doesn't Class A run as fast as Class AAA??? Must be poor coaching or bad work habits from these A school kids.

Size of school absolutely does not matter if a Single A participant is better than a 4A athlete. This is really far fetched, on an individual basis size does not matter. However, the real reason that there are Classifications in other sports is simple. It gives more athletes the ability to compete for individual titles. Do the math, you have 40 athletes total in the same event but with 4 classes A,AA,AAA and AAAA now you have 4 Champions, 4 Runners-up and 4 third place finishers. On the Flip side you would have one of each. It simply gives more kids the opportunity to place or win a particular event. It's totally a numbers game to get more kids involved.

Was you there watching this game?I know people want to be politicaly correct but it is what it is,he blew it.He is a heck of a coach,probably the best in the state usually but today he could'nt see the obvious like the back door cut that they scored I bet 80% of there points on.Going to 2-3 or man would have stopped that easily.And neither team deserved to win today,this game was just ridiculous,but yes Graves forced the stand-still tempo and took advantage of it and won the game.

Graves Co. did deserve to Win!! They played their game, if you don't like it I guess that is you're problem. No one has had a problem with Coach Wright the past several years playing the same defense while he was winning games. Now, one game it does'nt work and it becomes all wrong. Maybe when Coach decides that his time/work is done at SL then maybe with all of your credentials (:jump: ) the school will hire you!!

I'm sure I will ruffle some feathers with this, but it's clear that Walt Allen isn't the best player in the state and shouldn't be Mr. Basketball.

 

Last season, Allen was the third best player on his team behind Fields and Proffitt. Without Fields in the post to take some heat off of him, Allen is far less effective on the block against many quality teams. Even with some "Mr. Basketball treatment" from the officials and some generous calls in the second half (Cavette's phantom fourth foul, for example), Allen was never a big factor in the game.

 

Allen is a great kid, obviously ... how many kids would lead the prayer circle after he played poorly and his team was upset while chasing another state title in the final game of his career? He's also a very good player, but he's not the best player in the state.

If we can adhere to Roberts Rules of Order then I'll second that!!!

Giving credit where credit is due, he did have a fantastic tournament last year and that cannot be taken away from him. However, the times that I saw SL play I did'nt even remember him playing until the State Tourney. He has had a nice season this year as well but Fields made that team clique. Then Proffitt and Hammonds I believe was the other kid. (Not for sure if name and correct spelling). There are numerous players around the state that are more deserving of Mr. Basketball. It's just because of all of the hype from the tourney last year that he has even received the press coverage that he has.

It's just a crying shame that kids this good on and off the court have there season ended by a team this bad because of horrible,horrible coaching by wright.For some reason wright was content with letting Graves hold the ball until everyone fell asleep and let them have the back-door cut every time.(and if you was there I mean every time!)He would'nt get out of the 1-3-1 at all when he had the much better size and athletes.Also,poor Walt Allen was just awfull today for some reason.I mean he missed at least 3 uncontested lay-ups and I dont know how many free throws and Wright would'nt put Riley in to replace him.By no means am I complaining about the loss,but I am just completely in shock about how bad Wright handled this game.If South plays 2-3 or man-to-man I dont believe it's close.You would just have to have been there to fully understand how bad this was.If they dont put a shot clock in,every team in the state will start running this North Carolina 4 corners garbage that Graves ran and hold the ball the whole game because they know thats the only chance they have.But all in all I just hate that Walt had his worst game ever in his last game with South and that Wright just took the game away from his own kids.But on the other hand Shelby or J-town owes us one now for the cake walk to Sat.:mad:

WOW!!! I'm glad your a SL fan, most teams win together and yet they lose together. Steve Wright is a heck of a coach he does not deserve to be publicly slammed like this, as well as the rest of the team as well.

SL just got beat by the better team today. (Maybe not the better team overall, but today). SL should build on this and come back and try again next year. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Before I make this post let me clarify something. When I say "numbers" I am not referring only to the size of a school or the number of students enrolled. When I say "numbers" I am referring to the size of the player pool a school can draw from relative to the number of players it takes to field a competitive team.

 

Ok..... now for a lengthy post.

 

The public/private debate in football, as well as the class system that now exists, is about leveling the playing field and making it fairer, and doing this through numbers. This is because numbers is crucial to fielding a competitive football team because it takes sooooo many players to field a competitve team.

 

The large/small debate in basketball is also about leveling the playing field and making it fairer. I just dont know if the large/small debate adequatley deals with the numbers issue because numbers is not as crucial to fielding a competitive basketball team since it takes, at the most, 15 players to field a competitive team. Realistically, you could field a competitive basketball team with 10 players.

 

The public/private debate within football deals with the size of the player pool that public schools have to draw from vs. the size of the player pool that private schools have to draw from. However, this is in relation to the amount of players it takes to field a competitive team.

 

With the large/small debate in basketball the main problem for me is that although the small schools have a much smaller player pool to draw from then the larger schools, it really doesnt affect competitiveness because it doesnt take a large number of players to field a competive team.

 

The large/small debate within basketball doesnt take into account the number of players it takes to field a competitive team, it only takes into account the fact that small schools are not winning championships; then automatically attributes the fact that small schools are not winning championships to the fact that those schools are small.

 

In basketball, unlike in football, numbers don't make as big a difference because it doesnt take a large number of players to field a competitive team.

 

I think this is the point DiggerBill was making by his previous posts, and the reason that the football public/private debate differs from the basketball large/small debate.

 

In football the public/private debate and the class system is about the size of a schools player pool in relation to the number of players it takes to field a competitive team. In basketball the large/small debate is about the size of a schools player pool in relation to the quality/talent of players that can be drawn out of a larger player pool.

 

Now ladiesbballcoach made a good point in response to DiggerBill's comments.

 

The response was this....... A 4A school with 1500 students vs a 1A school with 200 students is going to have a bigger player pool to draw from, and although this may not be important with regards to numbers, the team with the bigger player pool is still going to have a much better chance of getting better talent from within their player pool then the team who just has 200 students.

 

I would say....... of course that 4A school will also have MORE TALENT within their player pool to draw, but that is JUST THE WAY IT IS and JUST THE WAY IT ALWAYS WILL BE. The "nature of the beast" if you will have it. The bigger the school = the biigger the player pool = its more likely that out of that player pool you will be able to draw more quality numbers. Their is nothing you can do about this.

 

Due to the fact that it takes soooo many players to field a competitive football team, there is justification in a class system, or a public/private split. However, within basketball there is no justification for this because it doesnt take alot of players to field a competitve team.

 

Sure those smaller schools may not be getting the quality of players the bigger schools are getting, but it is not the KHSAA's job to ensure that the talent level or enrollment at every school is equal. All the KHSAA can do is make sure that the size of the player pool relative to the amount of players is takes to field a competitve team is as equal as possible.

 

Within basketball the small schools player pool is much more equal to the large schools in terms of the number of possible players they can draw from when viewed in the context of the number of players it takes to field a competitive team. This is much different in football where a class system, or public/private split, is neccessary in order to ensure that the size of the player pool relative to the number of players it takes to field a competitve team is equal and therefore fair for all teams.

 

If you can get 10-15 players out for a basketball team, then your player pool is plenty big enough to field a competive basketball team. Those 10-15 players may not be able to play worth a hoot...... but there is nothing anyone can do about that.

 

In football there are alot of 1 and 2A teams that can barely get 30 kids out for the football team. Now all 30of those kids may be talented, quality players, but they shouldnt have to play a Trinity team that can get over 100 kids out. The football debate doesnt deal with the quality of players, just the number of possible players in relation to the number of players you need to field a competitive team.

 

Big difference between the football debate and basketball debate.

Good Post!!

Where does this "Pendleton Co. has always brought a crowd no matter how good the team is," come from. Go back 5+ years and I guarantee they didn't "bring a crowd," everywhere they went. I have game tape to prove.

Good thing you only went 5 + yrs., you probably could not have gone much further back like many of others could. PC has normally had very good attendance at Home and Away.:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Let's see how many Pendleton Co. fans travel to the Fieldhouse next year. Pendleton does bring a good crowd, but they will not come out in the droves like they did this year when they were ranked in the top ten in the state and expected to win the region.

Could be said for most fair weather fans, regardless of who they support!!

If PC should happen to make it to the Fieldhouse, then I'm sure they'll have their fan base there.

Unless and you have to use the same mindset with the A and AA levels. 200 kids, 40% boys gets to 80 boys. 10% have interest in basketball, so that leaves you with 8 boys. And having interest does not mean they have size or talent.

What's fair is fair, I guess you're right and many times the quality numbers are not there for the smaller schools.

Point Taken.

I hope Covcath takes it all because

1) They beat the school I was rooting for .

2) They are from Nky and this region is due .

3) They are the only Parochial school in the Tournament and the Parochial schools are at a disatvantage when it comes to basketball and the Sweet Sixteen and maybe this will go towards leveling the hardwood a bit .

Can't quite agree with # 3, how in world are Parochial Schools at a disadvantage??:confused: :confused:

I agree with you to a point, but Digger, you know as well as I do, that if I have 2000 boys to select from vs 100 boys, its an aberration when the top 5 from the school with 100 boys are better than the top 5 from the school with 2000 boys unless there has been some manipulation of the talent pools. Its like burying a nickel in your back yard. You get 100 scoops with a shovel to find that nickel and I get 2000. Or you get to keep the 5 finest diamonds you can find out of a choice of 100 but I get to keep the 5 finest diamonds that I can find out of a choice of 2000 and its a competition between you and I to see who finds the 5 finest diamonds. You don't think I have a huge advantage in finding that nickel or finding the 5 finest diamonds? Sure sometimes you'll be lucky and beat me, but you have to admit that the numbers work in favor of the larger schools whether we're talking putting together teams of 30, teams of 10 or teams of 1.

Point made and Point taken. Also, you must consider that the largest school in the tourney may have what? 1500 students with probably 40% being boys. Then you figure that maybe 10 % may have an interest in B-Ball which would be 60 at the most. Most coaches would love to have that many to choose from, but, this is not a realistic figure either. And I'm referring to all three levels ie.. Frosh, JV and Varsity. With this in mind your numbers are now becoming someone close to the A and AA levels. Again, it's all based upon talent level. Some of N.Ky Schools on the A and AA level have a tremendous number of athletes vying for the 12-15 spots and additionally they normally have the talent pool to choose from. So I guess there are many Pros and Cons to this situation.

Then you would agree we should do the same thing for football to create the same type of atmosphere and sense of accomplishment. Get rid of the classes or at a minimum, not dilute them anymore than they already are, correct?

Most schools will select 12-15 athletes for Basketball, these schools many times can compete with most other schools regardless of the enrollment if the talent is there. However, in football it normally is a numbers game, realistically it takes 40-60 players to field a team. Most A schools don't have the numbers, therefore their athletes will play both ways and then some. This puts the various class schools on an equal playing field as far as number of athletes are concerned and as you progress upwards in Class status you then have more athletes to compete. I really don't think you can compare B-Ball and Football together. Other sports maybe, such as baseball, tennis, golf, wrestling and so forth simply because these sports again require a smaller number of athletes to compete can be classified with no advantage to the size of the school. It's simply based upon talent of athletes.

The "Sweet 16" is the greatest show in hoops. Please do not mess with it. There is no other HS State Tourney like it. It's One for All and All for One.

Cantrell had SL # 1 for awhile and he was OK then. Then he had them about 13th, then not so good. He simply stated that he thought CCH was the #1 team in tourney based on his formular and now you make fun of him. I guess as long as he ranks your team higher you like him. But when he does'nt he's a BOZO. Huh!!

Wow!! You're going back a few years to bring up Bo and the Boys. In my estimation that's about 30 + yrs.

I guess I could'nt make the 11th Girls Finals last year, however, this is not a personal attack against him. He is a very good official, but if you took the time to read the purpose of the original thread you would realize that it was not about the individual it was about the situation in general. Much like the L'ville situation that just occurred, that's the only reason that I brought the thread back up. This is a problem that when I brought it up last year was pure speculation about the appearance of possible problems that could occur. This has now occurred in L'ville. It is a situation can be prevented.

I feel that it's time for the KHSAA Commissioner to intervene and to try and prevent this from occuring again and if I might have been given some prudence in the matter last year, it would not have occurred this year.

That's funny, he did not do last years finals in the 10th or the 11th. Is he calling somewhere else as well? A little thinned skin for an official! Huh!!

And yes, hence the name I guess I'll keep digging until the right thing is done to eliminate these potential problems.

When this thread was started last year, it created alot of ruckus. However, in light of what has happened in the 7th Region this year I felt the need to bring it up again!! I know that some regions have gone to exchanging their officials with another region. Such as this year the 9th Region used 5th Region Officials and the 9th were sent to another region(whick one I don't know). Seems to make sense to me, these situations would not exist with some proper planning and cooperation from the various regions' assigning secretaries.

Congrats to Christian Co., I remember when it seems like they went every year, but, when was their last trip to Rupp. I'm going back to 60's and 70's when I said every year. I think that Freedom Hall was their second homecourt.

Can you say consolidation? Believe it or not there are people on here that remember when Mason did not have the strongest program in the Region. Since 1981 when they won their 1st Regional Title, yes they have had a nice run. The consolidation with Maysville didn't hurt either, for many of those titles that's where their talent pool came from. But, that's life and the rest of the 10th will survive. So to say tradition, I would qualify tradition with a little than is being brought to the table(many teams have traditions, but it occured way more than 25 yrs. ago). Yes, Mason is good with a very strong program, but traditions?