yota

....and to add to my previous comment, officials will sometimes miss a call or not see what we in the stands see, just the way it is. The officials DID NOT lose or win this game for either team.

Never said officials lost game for sk. Actually said some bad calls aggravated an already struggling sk. However , 2 or 3 bad calls in a close game could be the difference. I did say however sk beat themselves which has got me caught up in a debate because of my blatent and total disrespect for fc's program.... according to some. Fact is , I never once blamed officiating or anything or anybody as the reason for Sk's loss. I blamed Sk's lack of execution. Not you lawnboy, but others on this site like to twist what is said to make fodder in a skewed attempt to get others to believe they are coaching/sports geniuses. Just stating facts .....sk beat themselves ,FC not the better team .....bad calls could have made a difference in such a tight game.

funny that it is the same thing every year. No one is ever better than SK. They beat themselves or it's the refs fault. Same story different year!!!! Sour grapes, spilt milk... suck it up. Your team lost to a better team!

So who is the better team keepingitreal? According to all out there FC is a great team but sk took the w by 24 earlier in the year. So were we the better team then, or did FC just have a bad game? Again, I attended both games and FC played no different in either game. So logic would tell you a team doesn't improve 26 points in a few games.....it usually means one team played bad and failed to execute.

Just for arguments sake... Franklin County has beaten SK, Holmes and Cooper this season... many would say that these were the 3 best teams in NKY this season.

 

So yes, the Lady Flyers are a good team and were better than each of these 3 on the night they played.

I would agree to that long before I agree to fc beat any of those teams! And to rcc9, one more thing. I never mentioned one time about the hhs/ sk game in feb. Don't know why you said you don't understand why I keep bringing that up???????

But since you brought it up I would be remiss if I didn't make a comment on that thread. You stated and I quote....'' if SK doesn't take advantage of hhs with Meier, a loss to hhs would be sk's own fault! So all today you have done nothing but try to tell me losses are because the other team beat you....and you really can't blame a loss on how badly you played but rather how much better the other team is. But in Feb. if SK would have lost to hhs, it would have been our own fault??? So then, losing could be ones own fault, but now it can't be???? I'm sure you have an explanation.

I "bothered" commenting because it disturbs me to see grown adults not give credit to the other team. I don't have to be there to see that. I could go on and on.

 

They lost. FC was better last night. Period. Regardless if I saw the game or not. SK lost to a very good team. Give them credit and move on. That's all I'm saying. They played bad, well I've heard all year that SK has been up and down in games. They picked a bad night to not execute. But my guess is, FC probably had a little to do with that. Don't have to be there to know that. FC made shots and had stops. They had a game plan. They defended and rebounded.

 

I wonder what FC fans would say about the game? They were at both games. Do you think they are saying "SK gave us the game???" No, they have a completely different opinion I'm sure. AGAIN...two sides to every story!...whether in there or not. Played enough and coached enough to know that.

SK never ''gave'' the game to anyone. Stop twisting what was said. SK played badly therefore FC won. Heard Franklin beating Holmes by 20 now. Also heard Holmes playing really really bad. Guess Franklin being so good is the reason.....

How did I know this is where'd you go!!!

 

Where'd we get all that talent?? We developed it!! No one handed us talent.

 

And an miscue here and there does not cost you the game. Things may happen at an unfortunate time, but it doesn't mean it lost the game for you.

 

And here is where your over exaggeration takes over. Did I say they don't make errors or mental maistakes?? No, I said they don't typically cost them the game.

 

And seriously dude, I would not tell my team that. I already said that! So yes, we are on opposite ends of the spectrum on that one. And I am fine to agreebto disagree.

 

All I'm saying is, there are 12 teams out of the tournament now and I see one team blaming others, making excuses and not giving credit to the winning team. FC was the better team last night. Not "inferior" like you want us to believe.

 

Look "dude"...I realize you are very close to the situation and it's a tough loss and you probably have a young lady that is devistated. I get it. But what you're saying is disrespectful to an entire other program that outplayed SK last night

Look.... you're free to think what you want as am I. Don't recall directly blaming others or officials for SK's loss. Don't know why you keep implying that. I've already said you can give credit to Fc all you want. I'm telling you I saw both games they played against each other. Franklin played no better or no worse in either game. Pretty much the same. Simon ,on the other hand ,played much worse....and please understand this, not because Franklin played better, but because, for the last time , they did not execute.

Not close to the situation...have no child devestated....fan of sk with grandaughter that may or may not be good enough to play.that's all. Come to town and catch SK games . As for your comment of being disrespectful to the program last night,that beat sk, not true. Truth is never disrespectful.

If they were truly a better team than sk ,I would have no problem in saying so. Beat sk by 25, and they were better. Beat sk by 2 , not disrespectful in saying FC did nothing to beat sk ,sk beat themselves.

And for the record, Fc is not better than Holmes either.

Okay, I'm back!

 

So where do I start. I guess I'll start bolding and answering in order.

 

Breakdowns: Yes, Many times when a fan of that program says we didn't do this and we didn't do that...it is indeed because the other team had something to do with it. If you miss an occasional rebound or something like that, then probably not. But if you're saying they just didn't rebound...not buying that. Ask the kids if the "just didn't rebound" last night and I bet you'd get a different answer. Because I would find it hard to believe that a team at that level "Just had weak side rebounding issues" at this point in the season. Did they just forget it was important for an entire game??? No, they had other things in their head due to trying to compete with another great team. So whether FC was in their head or something, I don't know, but they just didn't forget to rebound!

 

College team vs Pro: Well now you're saying if they didn't rebound at all or hit any free throws. But if you want me to answer this question...even if a pro team rebounded poorly and didn't hit free throws, they would still beat the college team without question. Many other aspects of the game that they would destroy them in.

 

My Team: Here's where it gets good because it's obvious you don't know me at all. I would NEVER tell my team they beat themselves. To me, that's disrespecting the other team's effort and I would never teach that to my kids. I may say, because you played poorly tonight, you take the loss and you can't expect to play like that and beat good teams. But there is a lot highlighted for this one. So let's keep going. My team would not make so many routine mishaps that it would cost us the game. Here's why. We work on our skills constantly. We make routine plays the majority of the time. In fact, our team fielding percentage is always in the very high 90's percent. That not to brag on my team, that's to say if you want to be good, you don't forget about routine things like "boxing out on the back side". Just like you don't drop cans of corn or boot routine ground balls or make continuous base running errors. Now you say "well isn't your team just perfect". No they aren't. They do make errors. But very very seldom do those errors cost us the game. Because there is always something else that we could have done to over come them somewhere in the game. You're going to have errors (in softball) and occasional missed assignments (in BBall) So you want to compare, I'm all in. If your team is having that many blunders on their own (which I don't believe for a minute), then you better start looking for a new coach that can teach basic fundamentals! (And that's not a shot at Stowers,) I know he is a great coach and teaches all that. Its a sarcastic response to help with the understanding that sometimes teams can keep you from performing what you think are basic fundamentals and lead you to believe "they gave it away". Here's another shot at your coach (kidding!). All I heard about SK all year was about their depth. So let's go back to comparing softball. If I did have kids consistently missing their assignments, dropping fly balls and making base running errors, guess where they would be??? Our team has a ton of depth. And guess what I would do as a coach?? I would find someone to go in the game that would not make these routine mistakes. So knowing SK has a ton of depth and a good coach, if he felt they were "just not boxing out on the back side", wouldn't he have made a change and put someone in there that would box out. My guess is that he knew that he was playing a good, fast and very skilled team and sometimes they can get better position and didn't feel anyone else could have done any better. Either that or SK has NO ONE willing to box out on their bench...(which I know is not true) So when you say your team gave it away, you are insulting the other team and your coach. Rebounding is all about heart. You have to want it more than the other team. Looks like FC wanted it on the backside more that SK. That's why it appeared SK didn't follow routine fundamentals.

 

FC did nothing, it was all SK: I seem to recall that SK beat them by 20 in the regular season. So you're saying that FC did nothing to create this particular outcome??? They did nothing to be in position to win the game at the end. It was all SK's shortcoming that put FC in position and FC had nothing to do with that??? You really can't believe that. And if you do, I'll give you a break because you were on the wrong side of a very good game and I understand how that makes fans search for answers. But this is where I start to get a little frustrated by "some" SK fans...it's never their fault...in any sport!

 

You tell what you saw: Id say you're like any fan, you tell what you saw through your lens.

 

You give benefit of the doubt: I know you typically do and I'm not lumping you in the "some" of the fans from SK. But I also tell it like it is and I NEVER disrespect my opponent by saying it wasn't what they did, it's what we didn't do. And that's why I jumped on this post.

 

And me playing devils advocate: Here's where you're completely wrong. I don't hate SK at all. If I did, I would have told you that I thought FC was going to beat them and I would be rubbing it in right now. I gave indications that SK better now look past FC and didn't say it in a way to be negative. I was truly rooting for them until they played Holmes. And the only reason there is because I'm a ninth region guy! Other than that, I would have loved to seen SK win it all! I have friends that have kids on the team. I've coached or trained some of their players in their pipeline now and in the past. I work with wonderful people from Independence. And grew up with kids that live out there now. I have not one issue with SK athletics. I do think their fan base can be a little over the top and unwilling to accept things at times. And trust me, I'm not the only one. I'm just one of the only ones that say it out loud when you're around because I tell it like it is!

Wow.... I sure have been put in my place! The simple fact that your 14 to 18 yr old athletes have such superior athleticism to not make errors and mental mistakes mystifies me. How do you find such great talent year after year? I'm sure other teams ,much like simon, wish they had that pool to choose from.

I have witnessed mental errors and blunders at the MLB level and you're telling me that you don't have issues like that ? Hogwash....Just watched catcher for Dominican Republic team fail to block pitch in the dirt the correct way ,allowing baserunner to advance to scoring position....base hit just scored him, now that mental mistake just cost his team a run.Don't think that's a common mistake for him or he wouldn't be a professional catcher. Must have been worried about baserunner stealing causing him to lose concentration and try to backhand ball he should have blocked. Get my point. Mental letdown aren't caused by the superiority of your competition. It's lack of concentration and focus.

And telling your team they beat themselves, is not disrespectful to the other team or their coaches.

Seriously dude, if you played a team that was decent, but shouldn't beat you , but because of all that has been discussed, beat you, you wouldn't tell your team they beat themselves because you wouldn't want to disrespect the winning team, their efforts ,or their coach? Most coaches who coach inferior teams and beat another team because of the better teams ''miscues'', are smart enough to know their victory came because of just that. And most high school athletes will know if they are good enough to beat a particular team, and beating a superior team usually happens because the better team played poorly and didn't execute.Teams very seldom get noticibly better in one game, need to string a few together. But a team can play bad for a game and end their season!

So we obviously will have to agree to disagree....

A lot of sour grapes in here.

Not sour grapes deuce, or anyone else! Have stated in all of my posts we did it to ourselves with lack of effort , lazy play , unforced turnovers,etc,etc. Again, Fc, did nothing so special and great that beat sk. Why is that so hard to understand? If everyone wants to give all the credit to fc, fine. But if I need to put this in easier to understand words I will. What sk didn't do last night made FC appear to be much better than they are. No superior play by FC made an sk player stand looking at the basket and let a girl go right past her for a rebound and stickback. Pure laziness or mental letdown.

Sk misses wide open gimmes ,not rushed , no one within 10 ft....happened twice. Bad passes, poor free throw shooting.... all what I'm referencing here has nothing to do with FC being superior. As far as officiating, I said the poor calls aggravated an already struggling sk team. Never said it was the cause of the loss.

Anyone can sit and figure if, and I say if cautiously, because people here seem to take everything so literal, that one poor call can result in as much as a six point swing.....now in a very close game that can be more than the difference!

I'm so irritated when common sense and logic , and factual statements get dismissed so that points can be proven whether true or false.

Fact is, poor officiating can, and does, as unfortunate as it is , determine the outcome of a game. Period. Call it sour grapes if you want.

There are two sides to every story. I wonder how many calls FC fans think they missed on their behalf. How many missed fouls and travels. How many times was SK playing physical and had their hands on their girls. There are two sides. My guess if they wanted to they could come on here and give you examples of everything they saw!

 

I really just don't get it with "some" SK fans. It's either calls that got them or the SK lost it. It's never that the other team just beat you.

 

I've seen Franklin Co play. You don't think a lot of the stuff you mention was a result of FC?? You may say "weak back side rebounding" or "unforced turnovers". But my guess there was a reason for it. Whether it was because of a play before or nerves handling the ball against very quick and aggressive player for the entire game, there is usually something. And getting beat on back side rebounds is usually why people say they didn't do very good on the back side. Someone obviously beat them or outworked them.

 

I can't believe any adult would come on here during a state championship after a loss to a team that went to the finals last year and say that team didn't beat them. Regardless what one side thinks, that team beat them. Plain and simple. It wasn't the refs or SK that beat them, it was the kids on the FC bench!

 

This is what I said in the middle of the year when several teams were boasting about going out of town and being successful. When you play teams in the middle of the year and you are out of region, a lot of teams don't scout and plan. They just show up and play. But when it means something, teams take the time to plan. This is a perfect example of that. And that's not to rub in the loss at all. I was really hoping for SK/Holmes matchup. But you give coaches film and the fact that it's important now....that's why several knew this game would be a battle. I don't know if SK went in with the same game plan, but it's obvious FC made adjustments and they deserve credit for "beating" SK.

So, rcc9, you're trying to tell me that every teams breakdowns/deficiencies, are a direct result of the opposition performing better thus causing said breakdown/deficiency. Right? Don't believe that for one second. Could a good college team beat a pro team if indeed the pro team didn't box out, didn't hit fts,etc.etc.? You bet they could!

I understand that you , yourself coach. Correct? I think it's softball? Let me ask you this, if your players had several errors on routine ground balls, dropped fly balls on routine cans of corn, had baserunning blunders and sub par pitching, not to mention some bad calls thrown in the mix,all of which you knew and witnessed your team not usually do,and it resulted in your team losing by a run or two, would you tell your team they were ''beat'' by a better team just because they lost the game? I guarantee you wouldn't, because it wouldn't be the truth. First thing outta your mouth would be ''you all beat yourselves'',with your sub par performance/effort. And please don't insult me by saying softball and basketball are different, and I can't compare the two. All sports have individual aspects which in turn make up the TEAM.

My point is you can, lose a game , and not be ''beat'', plain and simple. As was the case last night. Franklin County did nothing so great that caused our problems. We did it to ourselves. Lack of effort, lazy play....call it what you want, but it was not Franklin's superior play!

I don't make excuses, I tell what I saw. If you were in attendance last night, great ,as an American you are entitled to your opinion. If not, that's great too! I really do try to give you the benefit of the doubt most times, but playing devils advocate for every team sk plays, really shows your true dislike for sk. Just my opinion....

I'm still baffled when SK scored FC player was going over to inbound the ball and hit Harney right in the dace in front of the ref.

I completely understand that officials can't see or make all the right calls, I really do.

What bothers me is missing the calls that are gifted to them, the call that everyone in the venue sees but they somehow don't? Just looking for consistency.

For example, one call that has forever and a day baffled me.. girl a has possesion. Defenders b and c double team girl a, who is ultimately trying to keep possesion, by moving ball side to side. Some how or another, girl b or c ends up tying up girl a and jump ball is called.

You'll never convince me that there was not a foul committed by b or c. When a is moving, there is no way b or c can get both hands on ball without fouling.

I can see if ball handler is holding ball away from her body, but not if ball is at chin and moving side to side.

Are you implying the refs called bogus fouls on her? Just wondering as I was not at the game.

Not bogus.... just ticky tacky touch fouls. She did nothing different than she has done all year. Just goes to show you that it imperative to adjust to different officials. Although I will say this, officials tend to have the mentality .... if it looks like a foul, it is a foul. Niece is a gamer and watching her throughout the year, I can tell you this, 99 % of the fouls called on her got no reaction from her.

Two of her fouls last night prompted a " how did I foul her? " response. For those of you who want to say Franklin County beat SK....you are wrong! Sk beat themselves last night. Poor weak side rebounding, too many unforced turnovers, defensive breakdowns, and flat out poor execution. They had a horrible game at a horrible time.

I realize some will cry sour grapes, and you're free to have your opinion, Niece called for ticky tacky stuff,but I witnessed Meier get absolutely mugged on several rebounds with no call...I also witnessed many many illegal/ moving screens by FC with no call, one of which the screener actually followed the defender for a couple steps, maintaining her screen position, right in front of the official....with no call, as the entire SK fan section was trying to help him make the call. I also watched FC players flat out walk several times , with no call. Saw Miles extend her forearm into Harney, knocking her to the ground, and blocking foul called on Harney. On top of that Miles got up and clapped her hands toward Harney who was still on the ground in disbelief of call. Taunting. ....automatic technical? I don't know the exact rule...but I thought officials should. Must be another one of those "judgement calls''.

Not gonna say one or two issues decided the game, but add them up and points coming after these missed calls didn't help the already struggling sk team.

Sk also received no help at all from Harmeyer. Her offensive contribution was non existent. I realize everyone will say ''she hardly played, no wonder she didn't score''. Well, here's a news flash, when she did play....her defensive effort ...wait for it, ....was non existent! Hope she learns that good defense will get you more playing time than just shooting threes. Imo, she has a lot of work to do . Could go on and on but won't bore you all any more.

Yep' date=' back in January. SK won by 20+. I expect the game to be closer this time around.[/quote']

Love me some Pioneers! Sk MUST get off to a better start, and limit their unforced turnovers! If they can do this , they move ahead. If not, much closed game than they want.

Just wondering how this affect the girls. Sometimes it can mess with ones body! Your thoughts....

Am I looking at the bracket wrong, or will SK actually (most likely) see Franklin Co in the second round...who is ranked above Holmes and only two spots behind SK??? They are very good. I sure hope they don't look past them or they will be making the trip to NKU to watch.

You are correct . If indeed they beat Paintsville, chances are they will see Franklin, who is very talented. Although SK beat them by 20+ earlier in the season in the Toyota Classic, I would hope SK realizes that at tourney time no competition is weak. There is a reason why every team playing in this post season is doing so!

No victory will come easy as every team will be playing their best!

Boycott Independemce Walgreens!!!!! When asked to help show support for the team by putting something on their marquee sign , they flat out said no, " We don't do that!! Really!!??? They don't seem to have any problem using that sign to tell the community that they have Piomeer apparel for sale!!

Only marquee sign in the area ,other than the city building. Maybe one of our city officials will step up!!!

I can see a SK vs Holmes in the semi's. If one of them could win the state, they would be the only NKY team with a boys' and girls' state championship.

In addition to the above, I believe Maddie Meiers dad played on that state team. If SK could pull it off, it would be one heck of a family memory!

Yes, that is correct, Stinson is a guard and the girl who committed the assault over the Summer (not alleged as I saw the punches first hand) was one of their bigs inside. Not Stinson.

Glad you cleared it all up.

This time though, It was the 5th regions poy.

I have no dog in this fight, so you won't be seeing me next year. I just enjoy watching SK parents cry about refs when they lose.

Chill out and enjoy the rest of your season, SK is a good team, don't ruin it for the kids.

SK parents cry about refs when we lose??????

Sk has lost 5 games this year and never were the refs blamed. However, the E- town game is a different story!

Were you at the game 5thregion?? Probably not. I'm betting your voicing you 2 cents on " what you've been told! I was there !

Say all you want about sk girls" taking out opponents, and sk parents crying when they lose, but hear this. I guarantee ,if your school had a player Punched in the face, after the aggressor had been warned for violent play, and numerous horrible calls by officials , you too may be "crying".

As for your comment about ruining it for the kids....the only thing that could've ruined it for our kids is if the punch had concussed our player. Chew on that thought for a while!

Stinson was not the player involved in the scrimmage incident. I spoke to her and her parents over the summer and it was not her.

So now there are 2 players on the E-town team who like to throw punches??? If it wasnt her then it was another player, right? Wow! Administration should be embarrassed !

Maybe they should start a girls boxing team.!

Please remember this....clearing out is a legitimate basketball move be it legal or illegal. Clearly punching someone in the head is not! Especially when there was already a warning in place.

Khsaa has been made aware of her actions and hope they act accordingly, given the fact there is a history of her acting in such a manner. Grapevine says this was one of the reasons Mudd stepped down this summer.

Apparently disciplinary actions on her were thwarted by E-towns officials. Hope Khsaa does the right thing and doesn't worry about timing, ie districts, regionals etc... etc.

Lot of complaining about physical play. SK usually is the aggressor.

Are you serious? Not about physicality here buddy, it's about the illegality of jada stinson actions, and why the officials, and E-towns coach allowed it all to continue. Believe this, if a player from SK ever threw a punch, they would have NEVER been given the opportunity to do it again! Don't believe you can get in trouble with the law for playing physical basketball, but I do know for a fact , you can for punching someone the head. It's called assult!

What bothers me the most is the blatancy of the officiating. Just glad this was in a game that had little meaning, and not in a district game that could've ended a teams season. Unless you were in attendance you will never understand!

Classic case of home cooking. Problem was, they blatantly , again and again, did not call fouls that were more than obvious. Every one gets a taste of home cooking on occasion, but not this blatant.

And yes , the Stinson girl should have been ejected. Warning in 2nd, and actual punch to face of player in third which resulted in a technical being called on her. After that, I know of two occasions where she elbowed /cleared out an sk defender , right in front of the official , with no call. Seemed like anytime she was involved in any contact with a player, she was ready to fight.Could go on and on but game really meant nothing. Just always thought officials should never determine outcome of game....not sure any team would have beat e-town last night!

Didn't Cooper beat SK recently?

Yes, and Conner recently beat Holy Cross. So whats your point ?

McKinley did most of the scoring those years, hard for anyone else to get to the 1000 pt club! Though I would imagine no one really cared who scored, given the end result!

I would not be shocked if the same 2 teams that played in the finals last year do the same this year with the same conclusion.

I see 6 or so teams in the bottom bracket that may have something to say about that. Not sure it'll be a given to even get out of their region.