High school NIL

[theguru]

1 minute ago, DearToday said:

Two kids got to pick out a new car to drive around for half a year today. High school NIL has more impact than you’d think. 

Slippery slope.  Before you know it the "NIL Powers that be" will be deciding who goes to what high school. 

[Breds82]

If there was NIL when I was in school, I’d be the one putting gas in the car.

[Tranquility Base]

Completely unnecessary.   The complaint for colleges was always University of _________'s athletic department is making millions on the football and basketball programs and the athletes get nothing and can barely buy a burger.

99.999999% of high school athletic departments are barely making a buck and in fact are probably losing money.   They aren't exploiting kids to make money.

 

Once Pandora's Box is opened, it can't be closed.

[rjs4470]

10 hours ago, Tranquility Base said:

Completely unnecessary.   The complaint for colleges was always University of _________'s athletic department is making millions on the football and basketball programs and the athletes get nothing and can barely buy a burger.

99.999999% of high school athletic departments are barely making a buck and in fact are probably losing money.   They aren't exploiting kids to make money.

 

Once Pandora's Box is opened, it can't be closed.

It’s not simply about athletes being exploited. If your name/image has value and people are willing to pay you, you should be able to take advantage of that. Why people want to treat athletes differently than literally everyone else is hard for me to understand. 

[LoneRanger]

 

On 7/10/2023 at 9:41 AM, rjs4470 said:

I'm ok with NIL at the high school level. If a players Name/Image/Likeness has value, I see no issue with them being compensated for it. 

 

1 hour ago, rjs4470 said:

It’s not simply about athletes being exploited. If your name/image has value and people are willing to pay you, you should be able to take advantage of that. Why people want to treat athletes differently than literally everyone else is hard for me to understand. 

No one (at least here on thread) is saying the kids shouldn’t benefit. 
The concerns are questioning the official policy making of the allowance of something that has likely always been allowed but now being promoted into a way that can and will likely alter the competitive balance of amateur High School (Middle School???) level sports. 
 

There have never been any rules against a HS kid that plays sports having a public job or finding ways to make money. If someone wanted to hire the local HS basketball star to stand in front of their business and hand out flyers they could have already done so AND paid them whatever they wanted. 
The NCAA did NOT allow college scholarship receiving athletes to do this BECAUSE in the early days of recruiting some schools had an advantage over other schools. This because they had boosters who ran businesses that would promise kids fantastic “jobs” that would pay them handsomely for menial tasks and that was used to encourage kids to pick a certain college to play for….. I’m sorry, I meant to say pick a certain educational institution to attend. 

The concept that this will be a way for certain places to draw players to their school at the HS/MS level is essentially legalizing recruitment of amateur players. 
On one hand you have rules saying we are making it tougher to transfer. 
On the other you have the development of a system to make leaving one for another more enticing than ever. 
 

It is a further separation of the Haves and Have Nots. 
There are a few communities around the state that are willing to do whatever to maintain their status. For most places, that isn’t the case. 
 

Could the KHSAA and other State Associations be headed toward a future of Divisions? 
Division 1:  Private Schools, Prep Schools, Charter Schools and Public Schools who will accept, promote and provide players with NIL Opportunities and players be able to move wherever they want via a transfer portal. The primary piece of this being willing and able to accept students from anywhere and not be bound to a district of student populations. (No intent of Private School advantages implied, there is no need for that debate anymore). 
 

Division 2: Public and Independent Schools that operate on a more traditional model where the student has to be a resident of the school district they attend with rules more like those traditional transfer rules. 
Kids could still get NIL deals if they have that opportunity. 

Going to be very interesting to look back few years from now and see what it looks like from there. 

 

 

[ChiefSmoke]

13 hours ago, LoneRanger said:

 

 

No one (at least here on thread) is saying the kids shouldn’t benefit. 
The concerns are questioning the official policy making of the allowance of something that has likely always been allowed but now being promoted into a way that can and will likely alter the competitive balance of amateur High School (Middle School???) level sports. 
 

There have never been any rules against a HS kid that plays sports having a public job or finding ways to make money. If someone wanted to hire the local HS basketball star to stand in front of their business and hand out flyers they could have already done so AND paid them whatever they wanted. 
The NCAA did NOT allow college scholarship receiving athletes to do this BECAUSE in the early days of recruiting some schools had an advantage over other schools. This because they had boosters who ran businesses that would promise kids fantastic “jobs” that would pay them handsomely for menial tasks and that was used to encourage kids to pick a certain college to play for….. I’m sorry, I meant to say pick a certain educational institution to attend. 

The concept that this will be a way for certain places to draw players to their school at the HS/MS level is essentially legalizing recruitment of amateur players. 
On one hand you have rules saying we are making it tougher to transfer. 
On the other you have the development of a system to make leaving one for another more enticing than ever. 
 

It is a further separation of the Haves and Have Nots. 
There are a few communities around the state that are willing to do whatever to maintain their status. For most places, that isn’t the case. 
 

Could the KHSAA and other State Associations be headed toward a future of Divisions? 
Division 1:  Private Schools, Prep Schools, Charter Schools and Public Schools who will accept, promote and provide players with NIL Opportunities and players be able to move wherever they want via a transfer portal. The primary piece of this being willing and able to accept students from anywhere and not be bound to a district of student populations. (No intent of Private School advantages implied, there is no need for that debate anymore). 
 

Division 2: Public and Independent Schools that operate on a more traditional model where the student has to be a resident of the school district they attend with rules more like those traditional transfer rules. 
Kids could still get NIL deals if they have that opportunity. 

Going to be very interesting to look back few years from now and see what it looks like from there. 

 

 

Agree or disagree....

Division 1: HS Athletics is a business

Division 2: HS Athletics is a sport

 

 

Agree or Disagree:

Division 1: HS Athletic programs use/exploit kids

Division 2: Use HS Athletics to help kids

 

There is merit to this idea. 

 

While I am not a fan of the Division 1 concept for HS athletics, maybe it is not all bad to let families pursue that if they think that is in their best interest. Just, don't have programs from two totally different systems competing for the same state championships. 

[LoneRanger]

11 minutes ago, ChiefSmoke said:

Agree or disagree....

Division 1: HS Athletics is a business

Division 2: HS Athletics is a sport

 

 

Agree or Disagree:

Division 1: HS Athletic programs use/exploit kids

Division 2: Use HS Athletics to help kids

 

There is merit to this idea. 

 

While I am not a fan of the Division 1 concept for HS athletics, maybe it is not all bad to let families pursue that if they think that is in their best interest. Just, don't have programs from two totally different systems competing for the same state championships. 

Totally agree. 
 

Although if I were in a position to vote on such a plan I would not vote for it. I think HS Athletics should remain amateur in nature. However, if the only other option was for the 2 systems to have to co-exist and compete for same crown, I’d have to consider as a compromise. 

[ChiefSmoke]

15 minutes ago, LoneRanger said:

Totally agree. 
 

Although if I were in a position to vote on such a plan I would not vote for it. I think HS Athletics should remain amateur in nature. However, if the only other option was for the 2 systems to have to co-exist and compete for same crown, I’d have to consider as a compromise. 

I agree with your desire to be amateur, but I would vote for such a plan. In the long run, would be more transparent... I think... hope. Not what I would prefer, but an acknowledgement that times have changed and that this is what some families want. 

[9068]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:13 AM, rjs4470 said:

It’s not simply about athletes being exploited. If your name/image has value and people are willing to pay you, you should be able to take advantage of that. Why people want to treat athletes differently than literally everyone else is hard for me to understand. 

I think it's because most HS players are KIDS. Many are under 18. How can they enter into a binding agreement? Oh, wait a minute,.....mom, dad, or their handler makes the deal. I would imagine there would be no jealousy among players or parents lol.

[9068]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:47 PM, ChiefSmoke said:

I hope you are wrong, but believe you are correct.  I appreciate the KHSAA trying to be proactive with their policy. Like other issues on their plate, not sure they will have the staffing and resources to navigate all that will go with this.

Chief---- Just think about when Mason County had Grutza, Lofton, Faulkner, etc. Those guys were stud athletes in Maysville. Might have had some NIL opportunities!!

[Jumper_Dad]

One thing not discussed unless I missed it. High school sports at nearly every school are possible due to the dollars of supporters, boosters and local businesses that buy program and stadium/arena ads. I can see businesses especially, thinking it would be better to pay Johnny QB to be in a few ads or promotions than giving the money to the team through boosters club or ad buys. I can see some players in good situations doing pretty well, but fear money that would have went to support the program as a whole could drop.

[Jumper_Dad]

The fact that a business can only use a players NIL and not the name of the school, mascots or school uniforms may deter some businesses. I also think the first violations to the policy will be the use of uniforms, mascot names or school names in NIL.

[LoneRanger]

1 hour ago, Jumper_Dad said:

One thing not discussed unless I missed it. High school sports at nearly every school are possible due to the dollars of supporters, boosters and local businesses that buy program and stadium/arena ads. I can see businesses especially, thinking it would be better to pay Johnny QB to be in a few ads or promotions than giving the money to the team through boosters club or ad buys. I can see some players in good situations doing pretty well, but fear money that would have went to support the program as a whole could drop.

 

1 hour ago, Jumper_Dad said:

The fact that a business can only use a players NIL and not the name of the school, mascots or school uniforms may deter some businesses. I also think the first violations to the policy will be the use of uniforms, mascot names or school names in NIL.

Not sure this was expressly laid out the way you have here but most definitely part of the intent from earlier. HS athletic programs survive on sponsorships and donations in most communities. And are certainly not money making machines riding the backs of the athletes playing them like perhaps was happening with the NCAA Level counter parts in Major Division 1.  March Madness, Bowl Games and TV deals made the NCAA a Mega Power.  That isn’t the case in high school. 

Most places there is only so much money to go around and the local businesses and folks supporting get tapped out as well. Like I said in an earlier post. No matter the amounts of money we are discussing, we are still discussing money and there will always be folks trying to get their hands on it. 

[Jumper_Dad]

From KHSAA Handbook:

(8) “School Intellectual property” means trademarks (past and present, to include official and unofficial logos whether officially filed or not), school owned or other facilities regularly utilized for practice of competition, school uniforms, school identifying apparel (whether issued by the school or not), and copyrights;

(9) “Association intellectual property” means the logos (past and present, to include official and unofficial logos whether officially filed or not) of the KHSAA or any of its events; including past audio, video and still images.

b) Restriction on Member Schools of the KHSAA regarding compensation

(1) No member school shall grant a student athlete the right to use the member school’s intellectual property, such as trademarks, school uniforms, and copyrights, in the student’s earning of compensation through name, image, and likeness

activities.

(2) No student-athlete shall use such intellectual property in earning compensation through name, image, and likeness activities.

‐------------------------

Seems pretty cut and dried, players can't be identified with the school as part of their NIL promotions. I could be reading it wrong, though.