Is Highlands still a top job?

[The Oracle]

3 hours ago, TheDeuce said:

This is probably a discussion for another thread, but it seems like Wolfe may just want out of Male, for whatever reason. Showing interest in Highlands and Trinity at basically the same time. 

I think he does.

[James Graham]

First, I have no dog in this fight.  Second, I do believe that Highlands is a top job in the state and likely always will be. 

To me, this is the classic demographics battle that many public schools with changing demographics, but great tradition, have to face to stay relevant.  Some examples on both sides of the river:  Princeton, Anderson, Lloyd and Bellevue.  All of these schools have won state championships at some point, but found themselves in the middle of a changing demographic (some decades ago) that impacts their ability to field competitive teams.  Here is what I mean:

1.  Ft. Thomas is landlocked... and any new home construction is likely past a million bucks.

2.  Ft. Thomas is no longer affordable for your average middle class family.  Why are you going to pay $260k for a 3 bedroom tudor built in the 1920's when you can build a brand new four bedroom home in Kenton or Boone County for that ?

3.  Ft. Thomas' population is older.  No one moves out after their kids go through the schools and why should they... their home investment continues to skyrocket.

4.  The correlation between high income earners and disinterest in football.

Can these problems be fixed?  Sure.  But it's going to take Highlands going back to a Beechwood style approach for kids out of district.  

One last point, these high school public jobs are tricky to fill because you really have one of two mindsets to a job like this.  The first group would be KTRS "lifers" meaning that fulfilling the years requirement to vest in the retirement system is important.  In other words, not a lot of public school head coaches from another state (who have their own retirement system) are going to pack up and start over.  Think about it.  In the whole state of Kentucky, how many current public school head coaches do you think are even qualified for the Highlands job ??  Ten, maybe ??  The second group are those who don't have a lot of years in any one system and could be looking at a job like this as a stepping stone to the college game.  Of course, there are exceptions to everything, but these are some of the obstacles I see to filling this job... which is still a top job in the state !!

 

[Harry Doyle]

I still stand by this, and you’d have to go back some 25-30 years IMO to prove otherwise. But (few) coaches leave state title winning/always in play jobs for those same jobs.
 

Highlands very well may snag one, and if they do- I’ll eat crow. But I’ll have to see it to believe it.  

[Tigerpride94]

8 minutes ago, Harry Doyle said:

I still stand by this, and you’d have to go back some 25-30 years IMO to prove otherwise. But coaches don’t leave state title winning/always in play jobs for those same jobs. 
 

Highlands very well may snag one, and if they do- I’ll eat crow. But I’ll have to see it to believe it.  

Coach Wallace left Bowling Green for St. X, but he went up in class to 6A so going up in class could be exception.

[Harry Doyle]

5 minutes ago, Tigerpride94 said:

Coach Wallace left Bowling Green for St. X, but he went up in class to 6A so going up in class could be exception.

Right you are.  That he did, but he also is “double dipping”- he is getting KTRS full pension + what he’s making at X. 
 

If he could’ve made at BG what he’s making now COMBINED, he’d have never left.  Serious financial move on his end. 

That was/is the exception. 

[Harry Doyle]

Doug Preston left Franklin-Simpson for John Hardin last year, but his son enrolled at UofL- oldest child graduated from WKU and moved around Lexington, plus having other family in central KY.

 

[barrel]

4 minutes ago, Tigerpride94 said:

Coach Wallace left Bowling Green for St. X, but he went up in class to 6A so going up in class could be exception.

Or going down a class. If your 6A and can win a title every once in awhile but can go to 4A where the odds might be a little less stacked against you. Maybe you coach 5A and can make some progress but drop to 1A and make deeper runs. In Coach Wallace case I don’t think he leaves Bowling Green for anything past maybe three or four so jobs. He probably has less of a teacher work load and has more resources at St. X. Worse case is he gets let go and he’ll have his pick of a number of good jobs. I’m not saying he will get let go. 
 

How many coaches qualify to be the HC at HHS? I’d say more than 10. How many check all the boxes for what they want? I’d say more than 10. Maybe not many more but more. Let’s face it Coach Haywood could apply and not get the job because he runs an option based offense. Mattney for JC could apply and not get it because of the style of offense. McKee would be in the same boat. All three are more than qualified but wouldn’t get the job because of offensive style alone. 

[Harry Doyle]

11 minutes ago, barrel said:

Or going down a class. If your 6A and can win a title every once in awhile but can go to 4A where the odds might be a little less stacked against you. Maybe you coach 5A and can make some progress but drop to 1A and make deeper runs. In Coach Wallace case I don’t think he leaves Bowling Green for anything past maybe three or four so jobs. He probably has less of a teacher work load and has more resources at St. X. Worse case is he gets let go and he’ll have his pick of a number of good jobs. I’m not saying he will get let go. 
 

How many coaches qualify to be the HC at HHS? I’d say more than 10. How many check all the boxes for what they want? I’d say more than 10. Maybe not many more but more. Let’s face it Coach Haywood could apply and not get the job because he runs an option based offense. Mattney for JC could apply and not get it because of the style of offense. McKee would be in the same boat. All three are more than qualified but wouldn’t get the job because of offensive style alone. 

Spot on.  Which is completely bogus.  Add Doug Preston to that same boat. 
 

Which blows my mind, because in the GCL “area” you have household names like Colerain who run the flexbone as good as anybody, and win BIG doing so. Kettering Archbishop Alter around Dayton bases out of the Wishbone (but, will get in the “spread”) and there aren’t but a handful or two of teams in KY that want any part of that smoke (I think they are smaller private school as well).

[barrel]

Archbishop Alter also throws a great fundraiser called Alterfest. I’ve helped their sports programs a good deal over the years at that thing lol. 

[Call It Like It Is]

15 minutes ago, barrel said:

Archbishop Alter also throws a great fundraiser called Alterfest. I’ve helped their sports programs a good deal over the years at that thing lol. 

I have a bunch friends up at Alter! They do it right up there! Great program!

[Harry Doyle]

Some coaching background knowledge. These are some notable head coaches in our state, current/former...where they are most known for and some background at their previous stops before taking/getting BETTER jobs. 

 

Robbie Lucas- Somerset 09-Current

• Head coach at Lincoln County in 02 & 03, compiling a 4-16 record. He goes back to Somerset as an assistant, takes over for Jay Cobb before the '09 season. Won it all in 2019 and constantly has his Briar Jumpers in the mix, and ALSO had an O'fer season is maybe 13 or 14? So you're talking three years at two different schools where his teams went 4-27, despite all the success he/they've had. 

Ty Scroggins- former Head Coach, Lou. Central., 07-16

• Head coach at Doss 03-06, 18-24 record, only one winning record, no playoff wins. Central had always been a good program, but he took a corvette and turned into a supped up Maserati. 

Chris McNamee- Pikeville ('10- Current), Two State Titles & 1 Runner Up

• Head coach at Pike County Central 05-08, 16-26 record, never had a winning record, no playoff wins. Goes back to Pikeville as an assistant in '09, gets the HC job there in 10 and the rest is history. 

Doug Preston- John Hardin (formerly of Franklin-Simpson from 12-19)

• Head coach at Paris (97), Rowan County (03-05), Lou. Western (06-07), Bullitt East (08-10).  Has a combined  record of roughly 10 games below .500 at those stops (was the 4A State Runners Up at Bullitt East in 08) before getting the Franklin-Simpson job in '12. Goes 3-9 in 2012, then proceeds to make THREE STRAIGHT TRIPS to the 4A finals his last 6 years, winning back to back titles in 17 & 18.

John Edge- Apollo (formerly of Owensboro Catholic 134-66 and 3 State Runner Ups)

• He also went to South Spencer (IN) for the 18 & 19 seasons & went 3-17.

 

Sam Harp- former Head Coach, Danville ('88-'11), winner of 7 State Titles

• Before coming to Danville in '88 (replacing Tom Duffy who left for Highlands), Coach Harp had been FIRED at Calloway County, then heads to Anderson County as their HC where they win the Region Title in '87.

Kevin Wallace- St. X (Formerly of Bowling Green '96-'17), winner of 5 State titles.

• From early/mid 80's- same of the 90's, he's the head coach at Warren East High School for 10 years. NEVER had a winning record, NEVER won a playoff game. 

 

[9068]

3 hours ago, Harry Doyle said:

Some coaching background knowledge. These are some notable head coaches in our state, current/former...where they are most known for and some background at their previous stops before taking/getting BETTER jobs. 

 

Robbie Lucas- Somerset 09-Current

• Head coach at Lincoln County in 02 & 03, compiling a 4-16 record. He goes back to Somerset as an assistant, takes over for Jay Cobb before the '09 season. Won it all in 2019 and constantly has his Briar Jumpers in the mix, and ALSO had an O'fer season is maybe 13 or 14? So you're talking three years at two different schools where his teams went 4-27, despite all the success he/they've had. 

Ty Scroggins- former Head Coach, Lou. Central., 07-16

• Head coach at Doss 03-06, 18-24 record, only one winning record, no playoff wins. Central had always been a good program, but he took a corvette and turned into a supped up Maserati. 

Chris McNamee- Pikeville ('10- Current), Two State Titles & 1 Runner Up

• Head coach at Pike County Central 05-08, 16-26 record, never had a winning record, no playoff wins. Goes back to Pikeville as an assistant in '09, gets the HC job there in 10 and the rest is history. 

Doug Preston- John Hardin (formerly of Franklin-Simpson from 12-19)

• Head coach at Paris (97), Rowan County (03-05), Lou. Western (06-07), Bullitt East (08-10).  Has a combined  record of roughly 10 games below .500 at those stops (was the 4A State Runners Up at Bullitt East in 08) before getting the Franklin-Simpson job in '12. Goes 3-9 in 2012, then proceeds to make THREE STRAIGHT TRIPS to the 4A finals his last 6 years, winning back to back titles in 17 & 18.

John Edge- Apollo (formerly of Owensboro Catholic 134-66 and 3 State Runner Ups)

• He also went to South Spencer (IN) for the 18 & 19 seasons & went 3-17.

 

Sam Harp- former Head Coach, Danville ('88-'11), winner of 7 State Titles

• Before coming to Danville in '88 (replacing Tom Duffy who left for Highlands), Coach Harp had been FIRED at Calloway County, then heads to Anderson County as their HC where they win the Region Title in '87.

Kevin Wallace- St. X (Formerly of Bowling Green '96-'17), winner of 5 State titles.

• From early/mid 80's- same of the 90's, he's the head coach at Warren East High School for 10 years. NEVER had a winning record, NEVER won a playoff game. 

 

If memory serves me Chris McNamee was head coach at Pikeville sometime after Hillard Howard and either left or was relieved of duty. He then went up to PCC for several years. I may be wrong but remember working PIke County Bowl and he was HC at Pikeville...at least for the pregame conference lol.

[Harry Doyle]

1 hour ago, 9068 said:

If memory serves me Chris McNamee was head coach at Pikeville sometime after Hillard Howard and either left or was relieved of duty. He then went up to PCC for several years. I may be wrong but remember working PIke County Bowl and he was HC at Pikeville...at least for the pregame conference lol.

You very well might be right! My apologies if I messed up (which is more likely than not haha).

Kinda puts things in perspective, though doesn’t it?

[9068]

2 hours ago, Harry Doyle said:

You very well might be right! My apologies if I messed up (which is more likely than not haha).

Kinda puts things in perspective, though doesn’t it?

Most certainly does. I have seen some people that are really fine coaches work in programs that are not "high profile". They get all they can out of the players they have, have fundamentally sound teams, and are respected and appreciated by their community.

[Harry Doyle]

5 hours ago, 9068 said:

Most certainly does. I have seen some people that are really fine coaches work in programs that are not "high profile". They get all they can out of the players they have, have fundamentally sound teams, and are respected and appreciated by their community.

And you were spot on. Coach McNamee had a very successful “1.0” stint at Pikeville in the early 2000’s after John Paul Chapman.    Then went to Pike Central for those few years, and that just FURTHER goes to showthe struggle between good/great programs and the middle of the pack type(s).