Track the NBA basketball season. March

Page 11 of Originally Posted by HammerTime I'm pretty sure you aren't serious but I don't get why you said it? The 76ers are 29-17 since starting 3-13. Collins ha... 172 comments | 2852 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolamite View Post
    I agree with you a lot Cats and we have also disagreed on some things but I can't keep quiet any longer.


    Durant is for real! I know you think he is overhyped and just a scorer, but there's a reason why the Thunder has rised from obscurity and KD is that reason. Westbrook is good and supplies a very good compliment but you take Durant away from that team and in no way is Westbrook going to do that much damage by himself. The thing about Durant is he will only continue to get better and thats scary. Lot of skill in his 6'10'' frame. Some of the shots he makes are crazy good and as bad as I hate to say it, very Kobe-esque.


    I know your not going to agree no matter what I say but you want proof that Durant is something more than just an overrated scorer then look no further than last summers FIBA run. That team was all Durant all the time and he basically shouldered the entire load on the way to the gold medal. Without him they would not have even made the podium IMO. He is a scorer, he is a talented scorer but to say that's all he is would be selling him way too short. I'm not one to give credit unless it is due and I hate on a lot of guys who have yet to "show me something", but KD is considered one of the leagues best for a reason. He also does a lot more for his team than just score but I'm sure you will not accept that.
    What else does he do for his team? He's 6'10" & the Thunder were extremely undersized all season long until Perkins got there and the dude still doesn't average 7 boards a game. His assist numbers are comparable to Kobe's when Kobe was in ball-hog mode. He's not a great defender. Scoring is what he does and his numbers are not that impressive to me because Kobe in his prime or LeBron if he wanted to (Maybe not with the Heat though) could put Durant's numbers to shame as far as points go IMO.

    He's overrated IMO, more so than any other player I can remember since Tmac. The Thunder win, but he does have another legit star on his team. He's a top 10 guy in the league, but to compare him to LeBron or Kobe is an absolute joke as far as I'm concerned. He's not better than Dwight Howard or Rose either IMO. To me he's in that next tier with guys like Deron Williams, Melo, Amare, Dirk, CP3, Rondo guys like that. To me he gets a pass straight to the top because he scores alot and he's a nice guy.

    Please defend KD on anything other than being a scorer right now. I think he is a pretty decent to good leader but can that really be said about someone who has not at least won a playoff series in the NBA? Don't go with the common perception, watch the guy play. I'm just never wowed by him. I see an all-timer but more like a top 20-40 player all-time rather than a worthy rival to LeBron or Kobe.
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  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    Barnes doesn't ACT like a tough guy he will honestly throw down at any point I feel like. Next to Artest he is one of the craziest guys in the league.
    Nope have to disagree . I think Barnes is the CRAZIEST guy in the league, the man has made virtually no money in the NBA and he keeps playing for minimum contracts to chase championships. Rings are nice but if I'm a role guy I'd much rather secure my future going forward than try for a championslhip so early in my career. He's 31 and has treated his career like he was 36 or 37 for the last 4 years.

  3. #153
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    ^ He has made $9,441,917.... Not to shabby. I think he can feed his kids off that. I don't blame him for chasing rings.

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    Portland is expected to make the qualifying offer to Oden which is 8.7 Mil. Um duh....

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatsCatsCats View Post
    What else does he do for his team? He's 6'10" & the Thunder were extremely undersized all season long until Perkins got there and the dude still doesn't average 7 boards a game. His assist numbers are comparable to Kobe's when Kobe was in ball-hog mode. He's not a great defender. Scoring is what he does and his numbers are not that impressive to me because Kobe in his prime or LeBron if he wanted to (Maybe not with the Heat though) could put Durant's numbers to shame as far as points go IMO.

    He's overrated IMO, more so than any other player I can remember since Tmac. The Thunder win, but he does have another legit star on his team. He's a top 10 guy in the league, but to compare him to LeBron or Kobe is an absolute joke as far as I'm concerned. He's not better than Dwight Howard or Rose either IMO. To me he's in that next tier with guys like Deron Williams, Melo, Amare, Dirk, CP3, Rondo guys like that. To me he gets a pass straight to the top because he scores alot and he's a nice guy.

    Please defend KD on anything other than being a scorer right now. I think he is a pretty decent to good leader but can that really be said about someone who has not at least won a playoff series in the NBA? Don't go with the common perception, watch the guy play. I'm just never wowed by him. I see an all-timer but more like a top 20-40 player all-time rather than a worthy rival to LeBron or Kobe.
    I know this will probably not go well and that's not my goal, but just last year weren't you the one hyping Durant for MVP of the league? Did you expect his scoring average to jump to 35 a game or just his other numbers didn't go up as much as you thought? Also a top 20 all timer as you think he could be is really awesome.

    Now on to the rest I agree that people thought he would take a bigger leap. To me there are two reasons he hasn't. 1st off last summer he didn't get to improve his game because he was the leader of the US team. I'm glad he did it, but he may have missed a summer to develop something. 2nd his teammates are good like you're saying. If Westbrook wasn't there (he handles the ball a ton) Durant would have scored a lot more the last two years IMO. I agree with you that I thought he would be better this year but I'm waiting until he gets a summer to work on his game before I judge. I'd take him right now a million times out of a million before I would have taken Melo at any point of his career.

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    ^ He has made $9,441,917.... Not to shabby. I think he can feed his kids off that. I don't blame him for chasing rings.
    Quote Originally Posted by SSC View Post
    I know this will probably not go well and that's not my goal, but just last year weren't you the one hyping Durant for MVP of the league? Did you expect his scoring average to jump to 35 a game or just his other numbers didn't go up as much as you thought? Also a top 20 all timer as you think he could be is really awesome.

    Now on to the rest I agree that people thought he would take a bigger leap. To me there are two reasons he hasn't. 1st off last summer he didn't get to improve his game because he was the leader of the US team. I'm glad he did it, but he may have missed a summer to develop something. 2nd his teammates are good like you're saying. If Westbrook wasn't there (he handles the ball a ton) Durant would have scored a lot more the last two years IMO. I agree with you that I thought he would be better this year but I'm waiting until he gets a summer to work on his game before I judge. I'd take him right now a million times out of a million before I would have taken Melo at any point of his career.
    No that was not me. I picked him to win the MVP this year, but it was more out of the fact that I think people are overly infatuated with him. There is no bigger hater on KD than myself and I have not hyped him up for anything. I was the first to call him the next TMac and if he ends up really being good I will say I was wrong. But scoring just doesn't do it for me. There is no good reason if he really is in Kobe or LeBron's class that the Thunder will not make the WCF & make a really good showing in it. They have the team that should be able to do it.

    I didn't read the rest of the post because I just couldn't believe someone who posts as much on the pro forum as you do would believe I hyped Durant as recently as last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatsCatsCats View Post
    What else does he do for his team? He's 6'10" & the Thunder were extremely undersized all season long until Perkins got there and the dude still doesn't average 7 boards a game. His assist numbers are comparable to Kobe's when Kobe was in ball-hog mode. He's not a great defender. Scoring is what he does and his numbers are not that impressive to me because Kobe in his prime or LeBron if he wanted to (Maybe not with the Heat though) could put Durant's numbers to shame as far as points go IMO.

    He's overrated IMO, more so than any other player I can remember since Tmac. The Thunder win, but he does have another legit star on his team. He's a top 10 guy in the league, but to compare him to LeBron or Kobe is an absolute joke as far as I'm concerned. He's not better than Dwight Howard or Rose either IMO. To me he's in that next tier with guys like Deron Williams, Melo, Amare, Dirk, CP3, Rondo guys like that. To me he gets a pass straight to the top because he scores alot and he's a nice guy.

    Please defend KD on anything other than being a scorer right now. I think he is a pretty decent to good leader but can that really be said about someone who has not at least won a playoff series in the NBA? Don't go with the common perception, watch the guy play. I'm just never wowed by him. I see an all-timer but more like a top 20-40 player all-time rather than a worthy rival to LeBron or Kobe.
    Everything, he is their rock, he is their leader. Westbrook does a good job running the offense from the point guard position but KD is the unquestioned leader of that team and it is clear they all believe in him. You talk about his numbers and say they don't impress you but I will take 28, 7, and 3 any day from the best scorer in the league. You say he should be pulling a lot more boards than he does and he doesn't carry his weight there but he is a SF, and an offensive one at that and he is still hauling in boards at a nice clip. It would be much different if he was the center or power forward playing inside the majority of the time but he don't hes on the wing, the guys inside are the ones supposed to be shouldering most of the rebounding load anyway so to get 7 from your 3 guy the entire season is pretty good. Especially when the league average is 4.5 a game. In his first four seasons his scoring has went up each season, as well as his assists, steals, and rebounds per game and one would think he would continue to improve upon those averages until he finally plateaus and then comes down toward the tail of his career. His ppg were actually a little higher last year, a five point increase from the season prior to that, but has went down by a couple this season. However, despite the two point difference in scoring, it is still well above his averages for his first two seasons when he was clearly more of just a scoring type and not as much of an all around player. With that said you can say that even without him scoring as much the Thunder are a better team and have posted a better record this season as compared to last.

    So basically what I am getting at is Durant is still evolving his game, the same way most NBA players do until they hit their peak around that 6th-7th year in the league. He came in as mostly a scorer now he is doing a lot more and giving his team a lot more. I have watched a lot of Thunder games this year and watched quite a few in the past and it is clear that this season KD has put much more effort into his play and is really getting after it harder in concerns to doing the little things. He gets back on d, trys to block shots, hustles for loose ball, all the things you want your star scorer to do, but instead of just a star scorer, Durant has evolved into just a star period. Just because he doesn't put up Lebron numbers doesn't mean anything, as I have said for the past couple years Bron is the most complete player in basketball, he does it all, so to compare someone and judge them off that is unacceptable. No one will fill the stat sheet like Lebron, but if I am the Thunder I am way more than happy with what Durant gives my team on a nightly basis, even outside of scoring. If you would have guessed four years ago when he came into the league that four years later the Sonics/Thunder would be fighting for the two seed in the West with Durant, Westbrook, James Harden and Serge Ibaka you would have laughed and thought there was no way. Those guys mentioned are good, especially Westbrook but Russell isn't doing anything Rose, Rondo, Paul, or Williams isn't and they also have some studs beside them as well, in some cases more than a couple. Getting Perk helps a lot because it rounds them out and gives them the post presence they've been needing but as good as Westbrook is, Durant drives that team. I know you have a lot of accolade for how good Westbrook is and how much he helps Durant, well you can also turn that statement around, having Durant certainly helps Westbrook even more. You take Durant off that team and I would guarantee you Westbrook would not even be close to being considered in the MVP discussion, thats how much he benefits from having Durant around. I know he was on the USA team as well, but in scenarios were Westbrook was not on the floor Durant was still getting it last summer, so no matter who you got running the point when hes on the floor hes going to be giving you more than 99% of the guys in the league are and I will take a guy like that on my team any day. He is just now learning to get that killer instinct and winning mentality and once he develops that fully with the rest of his game you will be ready to eat your words. You compare him to McGrady, which is fair at this point, but KD has something going for him T Mac doesn't and that is heart and work ethic, not too mention health. T Mac cruised on his god given talents and it bit him later in his career, Durant on the otherhand is a gym rat so he will only continue to develop his skills, barring injury he will be very scary here in three or four more years.




    I know you won't agree, and you don't have to agree I respect your opinion, but that is why I feel the way I do and I'm sure why most others feel the same way about Durant as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatsCatsCats View Post
    No that was not me. I picked him to win the MVP this year, but it was more out of the fact that I think people are overly infatuated with him. There is no bigger hater on KD than myself and I have not hyped him up for anything. I was the first to call him the next TMac and if he ends up really being good I will say I was wrong. But scoring just doesn't do it for me. There is no good reason if he really is in Kobe or LeBron's class that the Thunder will not make the WCF & make a really good showing in it. They have the team that should be able to do it.

    I didn't read the rest of the post because I just couldn't believe someone who posts as much on the pro forum as you do would believe I hyped Durant as recently as last year.
    Hyping may have been the wrong word, but I remember talking about Durant with you last year.

    It took you longer to write that sentence putting me down than it would have taken you to read why I agreed with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSC View Post
    Hyping may have been the wrong word, but I remember talking about Durant with you last year.

    It took you longer to write that sentence putting me down than it would have taken you to read why I agreed with you.
    How did I put you down? I just didn't want to read anymore if you had mistaken what someone else said for what I sad. You have never heard me say anything good about Durant on here. I freely admit I'm the biggest hater of his game probably in the world. I have even said on here that I think his goody-2-shoes routine is fake which no one else says. I've never said a good word about him on here because he is legitimately one of my least favorite players in the league. I only root for him now because he plays with Westbrook, Ibaka, & Perk. It's always made me sick that the NBA guys act like he's going to be on LeBron's level at any point in his career, let alone that I feel it is disrespectful to Kobe to even mention KD in comparison. No one is lower on KD's game than I am in the entire world, and I will freely admit that much of that is bias.

    But alot of it is that IMO he just doesn't have the well rounded game that I feel other greats have. I see a guy that should be a double double guy & a lock down defender. He's neither. I don't dislike him as a person because he seems like an OK guy but I do not like him as a basketball player.

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    Dola, I respecfully disagree. I think KD will get a championship in the future, but I think Westbrook will always be underrated there. I hope Westbrook leaves so we can see what KD really has.

    As for not rebounding because he's a small forward, the Thunder have been small his entire career and a great player would have went down and got the boards as needed. Especially a 6'10" guy. And when has 3 assist per game ever been really good, especially when you have another guy on your team averaging 20 some? Jordan averaged 5 and he was 10x the scorer KD is. Kobe is around 5, and had almost 5 per game the year he shot the ball every time down the floor and he had no one to pass it to that year. We won't even compare his overall statlines to LBJs. Those are the guys he'll be compared to. His numbers look more like TMac's when he started to get to play & quite honestly arent even as good. And TMac (the star) did not really play with a guy like Westbrook. TMac was young when he played with Carter, and only got to play alot one season with him. Grant Hill was done in Orlando. And neither he nor Yao were healthy for their Rocket careers

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    ......................................FG.......3PT .....FT.....RPG.....APG....SPG...BPG....PPG
    KD
    2007–08 Seattle..............43%....29%....87%...4.4....2. 4.....1.0....0.9.....20.3
    2008–09 Oklahoma City....48%....42%....86%...6.5....2.8.....1.3.... 0.7.....25.3
    2009–10 Oklahoma City....48%....37%....90%...7.6....2.8.....1.4.... 1.0.....30.1
    2010–11 Oklahoma City....47%....34%....87%...7.1....2.8.....1.1.... 1.0.....28.4

    TMAC First 4 years he got to play at all...
    1999–00 Toronto............45%....27%....71%...6.3....3.3. .....1.1....1.9.....15.4
    2000–01 Orlando............46%....35%....73%...7.5....4.6. .....1.5....1.5.....26.8
    2001–02 Orlando............45%....36%....75%...7.9....5.3. .....1.6....1.0.....25.6
    2002–03 Orlando............46%....39%....79%...6.5....5.5. .....1.6....0.8.....32.1

    These numbers look similar, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatsCatsCats View Post
    ......................................FG.......3PT .....FT.....RPG.....APG....SPG...BPG....PPG
    KD
    2007–08 Seattle..............43%....29%....87%...4.4....2. 4.....1.0....0.9.....20.3
    2008–09 Oklahoma City....48%....42%....86%...6.5....2.8.....1.3.... 0.7.....25.3
    2009–10 Oklahoma City....48%....37%....90%...7.6....2.8.....1.4.... 1.0.....30.1
    2010–11 Oklahoma City....47%....34%....87%...7.1....2.8.....1.1.... 1.0.....28.4

    TMAC First 4 years he got to play at all...
    1999–00 Toronto............45%....27%....71%...6.3....3.3. .....1.1....1.9.....15.4
    2000–01 Orlando............46%....35%....73%...7.5....4.6. .....1.5....1.5.....26.8
    2001–02 Orlando............45%....36%....75%...7.9....5.3. .....1.6....1.0.....25.6
    2002–03 Orlando............46%....39%....79%...6.5....5.5. .....1.6....0.8.....32.1

    These numbers look similar, no?
    I applaud the research and comparison but KD will not ultimately end up like T Mac (barring injury). They took the Lakers to 7 last year in the playoffs and are a better team this year. I expect Durant to do something McGrady never did and that is actually make it out of the first round of the playoffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolamite View Post
    I applaud the research and comparison but KD will not ultimately end up like T Mac (barring injury). They took the Lakers to 7 last year in the playoffs and are a better team this year. I expect Durant to do something McGrady never did and that is actually make it out of the first round of the playoffs.
    I thought it went to 6 games last year, but either way it was a tough series. As far as TMac goes you do have to admit when he broke out he had no one like Russell Westbrook. Those years above, Grant Hill played about 50 games combined for those 3 years in Orlando. Give TMac Jason Kidd during those years and I bet he wins a playoff series. It's always about having more than one player, unless that guy is a big or a true once in a generation talent. The closest a guy has come to winning big with a roster like TMac played with was Allen Iverson with the 76ers or LBJ with the Cavs against SA. Neither of those worked out great in the end.

    Will you at least admit TMac & Durant look alot alike numbers-wise? TMac gets a bad rap because he got so hurt over his career, but the dude has to be one of the 15 best scorers in league history. Durant may end up like that as well. But to me he will have to change his game drastically if he wants to move into that top level of NBA players. You have to effect the game in more than one area and he really doesn't IMO. Maybe he is a good leader, but so is Derek Fisher and no one is calling him great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatsCatsCats View Post

    Will you at least admit TMac & Durant look alot alike numbers-wise? TMac gets a bad rap because he got so hurt over his career, but the dude has to be one of the 15 best scorers in league history. Durant may end up like that as well. But to me he will have to change his game drastically if he wants to move into that top level of NBA players. You have to effect the game in more than one area and he really doesn't IMO. Maybe he is a good leader, but so is Derek Fisher and no one is calling him great.
    I fully agree with the T Mac comparisons I even said so in my first post, but I think Durant possesses all the intangibles T Mac didn't and he is only continuing to develop them as his career progresses. T Mac never put the kind of work in Durant has and it costed him once he got hit with all the injuries and lost all of his God given advantages. Later in your career you have to evolve your scoring and be able to still get the job done once your natural gifts are on the same playing field as everyone else. That is the reason T Mac is now a role player on a horrible Pistons team and Durant will continue to put up 25+ point seasons for the next 10 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolamite View Post
    I fully agree with the T Mac comparisons I even said so in my first post, but I think Durant possesses all the intangibles T Mac didn't and he is only continuing to develop them as his career progresses. T Mac never put the kind of work in Durant has and it costed him once he got hit with all the injuries and lost all of his God given advantages. Later in your career you have to evolve your scoring and be able to still get the job done once your natural gifts are on the same playing field as everyone else. That is the reason T Mac is now a role player on a horrible Pistons team and Durant will continue to put up 25+ point seasons for the next 10 years.
    How can you say he didn't put in work? How would you know that? TMac had one of the worst backs in the history of the league, I don't see how that is on him. Dude played through that for much of his career & it took alot of his explosiveness away. He hurt his shoulder and destroyed his knee, though he was about 29 when he had microfracture that's probably too old to recover from it, as few do anyway. I don't see how any of those injuries are on TMac, especially when he tried to play through each injury & tried to hurry back from each injury.

    TMac was one of the 3 best scorers I got to see from the beginning of their careers IMO (along with Kobe & Allen Iverson), and to be honest with you as far as just putting up numbers & doing it in multiple ways he was almost as good as Kobe I felt. Now, he didn't have the complete game that Kobe did, but the man could put it in the hole. Sound familiar? Who knows how good TMac would have been if he would have been paired with someone like Jason Kidd at a young age. Now he never got out of the 1st round, but there really weren't alot of years that he should have with the exception of the one that made him famous agains the Pistons (3-1 lead, said it was over).

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