Dusty Baker Astros Manager

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  1. #16

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    How old is Dusty? Not that it matters. Some sports can be coached from the Couch. LOL. J/K
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  2. #17
    Carl Spackler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    He is better than good and I don't think there is anyone in the HOF that is just "good". Let's at least call it very good, well above average or something like that. He is #5 all time in number of times managing his team into the playoffs. Every one of the top 15 on that list who is eligible for the HOF is in the HOF. And Dusty is #5 on that list. He will be in the HOF.

    The 4 managers ahead of him on playoff teams are Bobby Cox, Joe Torre, Tony La Russa and Casey Stengel.

    MLB Managers | Baseball-Reference.com

    All of the Top 15 have at least one World Series Title except Dusty. As for the top 5:
    Bobby Cox 67-69 .493 in the postseason, 1 World Series Championship, 5 Pennants.
    Joe Torre 84-58 .592 in the postseason, 4 World Series Championships, 6 Pennants.
    Tony LaRussa 70-58 .547 in the postseason, 3 World Series Championships, 6 Pennants.
    Casey Stengal 37-26 .587 in the postseason, 7 World Series Championships, 10 Pennants.
    Dusty Baker 23-32 .418 in the postseason, zero World Series Championships, 1 Pennant.

    One of these is not like the others.

  3. #18
    ChickenWyngz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdDaddy View Post
    How old is Dusty? Not that it matters. Some sports can be coached from the Couch. LOL. J/K
    He is 70 I believe.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
    All of the Top 15 have at least one World Series Title except Dusty. As for the top 5:
    Bobby Cox 67-69 .493 in the postseason, 1 World Series Championship, 5 Pennants.
    Joe Torre 84-58 .592 in the postseason, 4 World Series Championships, 6 Pennants.
    Tony LaRussa 70-58 .547 in the postseason, 3 World Series Championships, 6 Pennants.
    Casey Stengal 37-26 .587 in the postseason, 7 World Series Championships, 10 Pennants.
    Dusty Baker 23-32 .418 in the postseason, zero World Series Championships, 1 Pennant.

    One of these is not like the others.
    Dusty won one as a player. He was, without a doubt the best player, on that list of five.

    Joe Torre also had solid numbers.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by PP1 View Post
    Dusty won one as a player. He was, without a doubt the best player, on that list of five.

    Joe Torre also had solid numbers.
    Baker was not a better player than Torre. Torre had better numbers in every major statistical category, and won an MVP award.

  6. #21
    Carl Spackler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PP1 View Post
    Dusty won one as a player. He was, without a doubt the best player, on that list of five.

    Joe Torre also had solid numbers.
    Solid numbers? Torre's numbers are better than Baker's across the board. You might want go rethink who the better player was. Hint: It wasn't Dusty.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Spackler View Post
    All of the Top 15 have at least one World Series Title except Dusty. As for the top 5:
    Bobby Cox 67-69 .493 in the postseason, 1 World Series Championship, 5 Pennants.
    Joe Torre 84-58 .592 in the postseason, 4 World Series Championships, 6 Pennants.
    Tony LaRussa 70-58 .547 in the postseason, 3 World Series Championships, 6 Pennants.
    Casey Stengal 37-26 .587 in the postseason, 7 World Series Championships, 10 Pennants.
    Dusty Baker 23-32 .418 in the postseason, zero World Series Championships, 1 Pennant.

    One of these is not like the others.
    Which makes the Andy Reid comparison appropriate. Is Andy Reid a HOF football coach?

    Marv Levy is in the HOF.

    When all the other numbers are as outstanding as Dusty's, you are a Hall of Famer even if you don't win a World Series.

  8. #23
    Carl Spackler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    Which makes the Andy Reid comparison appropriate. Is Andy Reid a HOF football coach?

    Marv Levy is in the HOF.

    When all the other numbers are as outstanding as Dusty's, you are a Hall of Famer even if you don't win a World Series.
    Marv Levy getting to 4 Super Bowls would be the equivalent of winning 4 Pennants. He's 11-8 in the postseason. Andy Reid has now made it twice and is 14-14 in the playoffs. Dusty has piled up regular season wins and been abysmal in the postseason. We'll see how voters view that down the road.

  9. #24
    Carl Spackler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    Which makes the Andy Reid comparison appropriate. Is Andy Reid a HOF football coach?

    Marv Levy is in the HOF.

    When all the other numbers are as outstanding as Dusty's, you are a Hall of Famer even if you don't win a World Series.
    Marv Levy getting to 4 Super Bowls would be the equivalent of winning 4 Pennants. He's 11-8 in the postseason. Andy Reid has now made it twice and is 14-14 in the playoffs. Dusty has piled up regular season wins and been abysmal in the postseason. We'll see how voters view that down the road.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    Which makes the Andy Reid comparison appropriate. Is Andy Reid a HOF football coach?

    Marv Levy is in the HOF.

    When all the other numbers are as outstanding as Dusty's, you are a Hall of Famer even if you don't win a World Series.
    Baker is certainly in the HOF discussion. He ranks in the top 10% of managers all time purely based on numbers. He is one of the most successful manager that was a pretty good player. Almost every manager that has accomplished more than him is in the HOF. But they all have a World Series title. While not necessary for a player, I think a manger has to have some playoff success. If Dusty wins one with the Astro's, I think his case gets much stronger. Othewise, I think he's always going to be just short.

  11. #26

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    Dusty has won a pennant and been to a World Series. There are managers in the HOF with no World Series wins. The irony in all this is I am not a big Dusty advocate, although it looks that way in this thread. I am trying to make that point that anyone who thinks Dusty is average or worse is way, way off. He is a likely future Hall of Famer.

    Which brings me to a question. I stumbled into the Andy Reid similarities and it has me thinking. I believe there are many people who have a much higher view of Andy Reid than they do Dusty. I believe there are many people rooting for the Chiefs tomorrow because they would like to see Andy win a Super Bowl. I don't think the same would happen for Dusty (toss aside the Astros issue please; let's say he were still managing the Nationals). If Dusty were managing the Nationals last year and in the World Series, would people be rooting for the Nationals because they would like to see Dusty finally win a World Series? I don't think so. Why is that?

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    Dusty has won a pennant and been to a World Series. There are managers in the HOF with no World Series wins. The irony in all this is I am not a big Dusty advocate, although it looks that way in this thread. I am trying to make that point that anyone who thinks Dusty is average or worse is way, way off. He is a likely future Hall of Famer.

    Which brings me to a question. I stumbled into the Andy Reid similarities and it has me thinking. I believe there are many people who have a much higher view of Andy Reid than they do Dusty. I believe there are many people rooting for the Chiefs tomorrow because they would like to see Andy win a Super Bowl. I don't think the same would happen for Dusty (toss aside the Astros issue please; let's say he were still managing the Nationals). If Dusty were managing the Nationals last year and in the World Series, would people be rooting for the Nationals because they would like to see Dusty finally win a World Series? I don't think so. Why is that?
    An NFL head coach is much higher profile, and takes much more of the credit for winning/losing than an MLB manager, and probably rightfully so. I could probably name all 32 NFL head coaches, and even though I'm a baseball fan, I don't think I could name 1/2 the MLB managers. People don't identify with managers the way they do NFL head coaches. It's not just Dusty...I don't know that anyone would root for a baseball team based on who their manager is. Years ago, I'd say this wouldn't have been true. But the days of high profile MLB managers who are the face of the team are long gone.

    Also, I think there is only one HOF manager who has not won a World Series, Al Lopez. I could be wrong (I just did a quick check), so correct me if that's the case. A World Series title is almost a necessity for a manager to get HOF consideration.

  13. #28

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    Frank Selee also did not win a World Series but his career ended in 1905 so he was only managing during the first three years of World Series history. Obviously there was limited opportunity for him to win one.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    Frank Selee also did not win a World Series but his career ended in 1905 so he was only managing during the first three years of World Series history. Obviously there was limited opportunity for him to win one.
    So out of the managers that are in the HOF, only two haven't won a WS...one who's career ended right after the WS began, and one who's last full season was over 50 years ago. And Dusty's career doesn't quite measure up to Lopez's. Dusty needs a WS title to even have a chance at getting in.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjs4470 View Post
    So out of the managers that are in the HOF, only two haven't won a WS...one who's career ended right after the WS began, and one who's last full season was over 50 years ago. And Dusty's career doesn't quite measure up to Lopez's. Dusty needs a WS title to even have a chance at getting in.
    Again, I am not advocating him for the ball. I agree with you that he isn't a lock, but I think it is likely. The fact that we are having a legitimate discussion proves he is above average and a lot better than virtually everyone here and in many other places give him credit for.

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