What Planned Parenthood Does

Page 12 of Originally Posted by UKMustangFan I'm 100% against welfare, so not at all. So you want to force the mother to have the child that she can't pay for and... 223 comments | 4475 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    It would. I would not be against a "loan payback" type program though. One in which the state cared for the child while keeping a running tab. The mother/parents would have to find work, and pay the state back before they could not only have their child back, but even see the child. Those that truly wanted to be parents will find a way to get the child back, those that don't, lose their child for good.
    I totally have to find an article I read recently. I think the woman worked in Mumbai, not sure. Anyway, the governement there, if you have a baby and you can't pay the hospital bill, you can't take your baby home until it's paid. You're allowed to see your baby periodically. But if, after a certain period of time, you haven't paid your bill, your baby is put into foster care, and your parental rights are terminated. And that happens to most families, because the crushing poverty makes it impossible for them to earn enough to pay the bill. Anyway, this woman is an American who opened a private care facility so that families don't have to risk losing their babies.
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  2. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by BleedBlue12 View Post
    Just a thought, but couldn't it be classified as just what it is? Abortion. If it were made into a law, then people could be charged with abortion which would carry it's own degrees of punishment.
    If one truly believes that it's murder , as many do, then why water down the punishment?

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    I totally have to find an article I read recently. I think the woman worked in Mumbai, not sure. Anyway, the governement there, if you have a baby and you can't pay the hospital bill, you can't take your baby home until it's paid. You're allowed to see your baby periodically. But if, after a certain period of time, you haven't paid your bill, your baby is put into foster care, and your parental rights are terminated. And that happens to most families, because the crusing poverty makes it impossible for them to earn enough to pay the bill. Anyway, this woman is an American who opened a private care facility so that families don't have to risk losing their babies.
    I would have no problem with the private care facilities. The problem is that people that shouldn't be having children do and then expect others to carry the responsibility, which is flat out wrong IMO.

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    If PP feels all those other services are so valuable and are essential to our society (and I would agree that they would be) then quit providing abortions.

    In a hard economic time, there are not funds for everything and hard choices have to be made!

    By receiving federal funds that frees up there other sources of money to provide abortions. Indirectly, the federal government has become a fund in providing abortions.

  5. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    I would have no problem with the private care facilities. The problem is that people that shouldn't be having children do and then expect others to carry the responsibility, which is flat out wrong IMO.

    So, I'm confused. What you seemed to be advocating before would constitute others carrying the responsibility, wouldn't it?

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    I feel that all of the following can be answered the same. And since I'm already late for lunch, I will do that here so I don't duck anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    Why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    What do you believe it is?
    Quote Originally Posted by coldweatherfan View Post
    And you don't believe that is a life?
    I believe an abortion is termination of a pregnancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    If one truly believes that it's murder , as many do, then why water down the punishment?
    An excellent question. One I don't get. People toss around the phrase "abortion is murder" all the time. If so, then why aren't people pushing for the death penalty or at the very least, life imprisonment for those who get and perform an abortion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    I think what you say here has validity. However, regarding the stats, the "whys" are in the reasons people answered the way they did. It's easy to look at the stats and say that the women were unwilling to shoulder the responsibility of the choices she made. The "whys" are: What makes her unwilling? Is it merely inconvenience? What makes it an inconvenience? Is the pregnancy the issue? Or is it the "contributing factors" of the situation? Are the parents supportive of a teen carrying her child to birth? Are the parents of said teen willing to offer support to a teen who will need help caring for the child so she can continue her education? Is the father going to support her during/after? Are the father's parents willing to offer support during/after? And when I say support, I don't just mean financially. Are both sets of parents willing to be emotionally supportive in a case of adoption? That's a big one as well.

    It's always really easy to look at stats from a set of questions that in no way can completely cover all the "back stories". It's dangerous to make assumptions based only on those stats.

    Look, I'm going to say it for the umpteenth time. I wish abortion were illegal. And I'm willing to support making it illegal. But I simply don't think that's enough by far.

    We, as a society, have a tendancy to over-generalize, over-simplify social issues. We complain because of the "lazy bums" that have kids to collect increased welfare benefits. We complain because women choose abortion. We complain because we fund PP, which actually provides low-cost preventative, basic healthcare to millions of women, because they also perform abortions, but that part isn't funded by federal dollars. We're shocked and appalled when a young woman delivers a baby secretly and abandons it. We're horrified when a young mother kills her young child. We simply cannot comprehend that a mother would do that to her child.

    I could go on and on and on....I have years of experience listening to the "whys". And while I do find the stats interesting, my experience has convinced me that it most definitely is more complex than statistical analysis.

    We need so much to solve this issue. We need adoption changes. If a baby is given up for adoption, I simply do not think that a birth parent should have the right to change their mind once the baby has been placed. I think adoptions of US babies should be easier. I think that more emphasis needs to be placed on teaching self-respect and sexual responsibility to teens, with the emphasis on abstinence as an honorable choice, not a "loser" choice. I think we need to focus on programs that keep teens in school during their pregnancies, and in those critical months afterward.

    Some of this is in place through churches. MORE needs to be done. If we want to solve this, it's not going to be largely by government programs. It's going to be by community involvement. REAL community support, not just lip service. It's going to take volunteers and mentors. It's going to take real hours out of our lives, and interaction with "undesirables". It's going to take going into the areas of our cities and towns were we avoid.

    I wish I could go on here. But, I actually have to get some work done today...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    So, I'm confused. What you seemed to be advocating before would constitute others carrying the responsibility, wouldn't it?
    The key word is PRIVATE. If people want to use their own funds to do so, be my guest. The public government funded care is where I have a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by formerkywrestler View Post
    I feel that all of the following can be answered the same. And since I'm already late for lunch, I will do that here so I don't duck anyone.



    I believe an abortion is termination of a pregnancy.
    It definitely is the termination of a pregnancy.

    My question is not whether it is murder or not.

    My question is when you look at the ultrasound, do you or do you not believe that it is a life?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    If one truly believes that it's murder , as many do, then why water down the punishment?
    That's a complicated question, but I'll say this: I completely believe that abortion is murder, and I am completely in favor of punishing it as such.

    However, with as many people who have been brought up thinking that abortion is perfectly acceptable, we would undoubtedly be putting away a LOT of people - somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 million new inmates a year if numbers kept up. That's a problem, but often times the answer to one problem presents you with more problems. We legalized abortion, and therefore we have people who have been born and raised being taught it was okay simply because there is a law that says so.

    Are those people who were brought up being taught that abortion was okay as guilty as someone who shoots a cop or something like that? Not exactly. Along the same lines, were the people who were raised in a pre-Civil War culture that said slavery was perfectly acceptable as terrible as the human traffickers of today? Again, not exactly. It doesn't mean slavery was or is ever a good thing and it doesn't mean it didn't destroy people's lives though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonels_Wear_Blue View Post
    That's a complicated question, but I'll say this. I completely believe that it is murder, and I am completely in favor of punishing it as such. However, with as many people who have been brought up thinking that abortion is perfectly acceptable, we would undoubtedly be putting away a LOT of people - somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 million new inmates a year if numbers kept up. Are those people who were brought up being taught that abortion was okay as guilty as someone who shoots a cop or something like that? Not exactly. Just like, were people who were raised in a pre-Civil War culture that said slavery was perfectly acceptable as terrible as the human traffickers of today? Again, not exactly. It doesn't mean slavery was or is ever a good thing and it doesn't mean it didn't destroy people's lives though.
    If you believe it is murder does it really matter as to the background? Do we give an 18-year-old kid who killed his girlfriend a break because he grew up without a dad and/or on welfare?

    It's either murder or it isn't. You say it is so I would assume you would apply the same punishment to abortion that you would for the cop-killer. Both knew what they were doing when the "murder" took place. Life in prison or the DP would seem to be the only acceptable choice if you believe it's murder.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by formerkywrestler View Post
    I feel that all of the following can be answered the same. And since I'm already late for lunch, I will do that here so I don't duck anyone.



    I believe an abortion is termination of a pregnancy.
    Okay, let me ask it this way: When a woman goes to the doctor & is informed she is pregnant, what do you believe is inside her womb?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    If you believe it is murder does it really matter as to the background? Do we give an 18-year-old kid who killed his girlfriend a break because he grew up without a dad and/or on welfare?

    It's either murder or it isn't. You say it is so I would assume you would apply the same punishment to abortion that you would for the cop-killer. Both knew what they were doing when the "murder" took place. Life in prison or the DP would seem to be the only acceptable choice if you believe it's murder.
    Our justice system qualifies murder all the time though. Cop-killers (I used cop killers only as an example by the way - it may not have been the best example) are automatically facing stiffer penalties than people who kill "normal citizens". There are different levels of murder, there is voluntary manslaughter, there is involuntary manslaughter... I would say, that yes, under our judicial system it really does matter as to the background.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    The key word is PRIVATE. If people want to use their own funds to do so, be my guest. The public government funded care is where I have a problem.

    I do not agree with abortion in any way. However, based on our current laws I agree with completely with you here. Not one penny of tax dollars should go to fund abortions.

    Abortion at this time is legal, if a woman is properly informed and decides to have an abortion, that is her choice and the cost is hers to bear. Both mentally and financially.


    I totally disagree that the father has no voice in the decision. I couldn't get a visectomy without Mrs C's consent. She had to sign a form saying it was ok. That was some time back, not sure if that is still the case.

    And, of course, I would overturn Roe v Wade. For the simple fact that I feel this is a state issue and not the jurisdiction of the fed. Abortion was around when the constitution was written. If you don't like your states laws, work to change them or move to one that matches your values, or go out of state to get an abortion.

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