The Evangelical Conundrum: Conservation v. End Time Prophesy

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    Jim Schue's Avatar
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    The Evangelical Conundrum: Conservation v. End Time Prophesy

    Watching an interesting KET documentary relating to strip mining, and found it intriguing that a number of Evangelical-types are actually aligning themselves with organizations such as Kentuckians For The Commonwealth, a group which hardcore economic conservative-types generally think of as pinko commies, because of anti-business concerns.

    Regularly, Evangelicals align themselves with hardcore economic conservatives because of social issues, but more often because of opposition to issues the left holds dear. Military hawks and Evangelicals often find themselves aligned when it comes to issues concerning The Holy Land (albeit with hopes for different results, ultimately).

    The most hardcore Evangelicals, I've found, seem disinterested in environmental conservation because, well, they don't plan on being around much longer because of the impending Rapture. Some seem to be coming around, however. I'm guessing a lot more will do so as well once we get past 2012.

    So, how do Evangelicals reconcile these competing interests of taking care of the environment while working to bring about the End Of Times?
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    I didn't know evangelicals were trying to bring about the end of times. But since the return is so uncertain I think it's a safe assumption that Christians should try and preserve what God has given us. I mean it may not kill us all but it's undeniable that with the rise of CO2 that asthma is more prominent in inner city children and has an alarming growth rate in the last few decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HT721 View Post
    I didn't know evangelicals were trying to bring about the end of times. But since the return is so uncertain I think it's a safe assumption that Christians should try and preserve what God has given us. I mean it may not kill us all but it's undeniable that with the rise of CO2 that asthma is more prominent in inner city children and has an alarming growth rate in the last few decades.
    The most hardcore are.

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    The "evangelical" voting block isn't nearly as predictable as it was as little as 5-10 years ago.

    As far as the Environment vs. End Times scenario you mentioned, I think most level-headed Christians want to preserve the environment & take care of it. It is, after all, God's creation. Even though we believe Christ will return & make things perfect, it's ludicrous to just throw the environment out the window because of that reality. Actually, there's a book of the Bible (2 Thessalonians) which was written to refute this kind of thinking as it related to working/earning money. Some Christians, believing Jesus' return to be at any moment/ASAP, quit their jobs to wait for Jesus' return. Paul wrote that letter, in great part, to sternly warn those who had such notions. It's why he wrote "if a man will not work he shall not eat" (2 Thess. 3:10). Paul was basically saying, "Yes, Jesus' return is imminent, but you still must continue to live life & do what God asks of you."

    Having said that, I know there are Christians who hold to this belief regardless. And I am adamant in saying they are wrong.

    The problem that some of us have (putting myself in this category) is the enthusiasm of the left to save the spotted owl (which I can understand & accept), but not save the child in the womb. I once was following a vehicle in Florence, KY that had a "Proud Supporter of PETA" bumper sticker on the left side & "Pro-Choice" bumper sticker on the right side. It's that kind of inconsistency that leads some Christians, myself included, to come across as being anti-environment, when in reality we're just pushing for the same respect for life in the womb (also God's creation) as we are endangered animals & the beautiful planet that is God's creation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Parker View Post
    The "evangelical" voting block isn't nearly as predictable as it was as little as 5-10 years ago.

    As far as the Environment vs. End Times scenario you mentioned, I think most level-headed Christians want to preserve the environment & take care of it. It is, after all, God's creation. Even though we believe Christ will return & make things perfect, it's ludicrous to just throw the environment out the window because of that reality. Actually, there's a book of the Bible (2 Thessalonians) which was written to refute this kind of thinking as it related to working/earning money. Some Christians, believing Jesus' return to be at any moment/ASAP, quit their jobs to wait for Jesus' return. Paul wrote that letter, in great part, to sternly warn those who had such notions. It's why he wrote "if a man will not work he shall not eat" (2 Thess. 3:10). Paul was basically saying, "Yes, Jesus' return is imminent, but you still must continue to live life & do what God asks of you."

    Having said that, I know there are Christians who hold to this belief regardless. And I am adamant in saying they are wrong.

    The problem that some of us have (putting myself in this category) is the enthusiasm of the left to save the spotted owl (which I can understand & accept), but not save the child in the womb. I once was following a vehicle in Florence, KY that had a "Proud Supporter of PETA" bumper sticker on the left side & "Pro-Choice" bumper sticker on the right side. It's that kind of inconsistency that leads some Christians, myself included, to come across as being anti-environment, when in reality we're just pushing for the same respect for life in the womb (also God's creation) as we are endangered animals & the beautiful planet that is God's creation.
    Good post.

    To your last paragraph: I agree with you that the left's inconsistencies w/re to enviro v. abortion don't make much sense. However, I also feel that folks who say they are "pro-life" while professing support for capital punishment are just as, if not more inconsistent.

    I'm of the opinion that animals aren't more important than humans in terms of preservation, but by the same token I feel that a life is a life is a life, and if you're "pro-life" you are, by extension, anti-capital punishment. Otherwise it's just a silly attempt to redefine what "life" means.

    For me, personally, I don't support abortion, but I also don't get real hung up on it either. I'm of the opinion the world is grossly overcrowded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schue View Post
    For me, personally, I don't support abortion, but I also don't get real hung up on it either. I'm of the opinion the world is grossly overcrowded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Schue View Post
    Good post.

    To your last paragraph: I agree with you that the left's inconsistencies w/re to enviro v. abortion don't make much sense. However, I also feel that folks who say they are "pro-life" while professing support for capital punishment are just as, if not more inconsistent.

    I'm of the opinion that animals aren't more important than humans in terms of preservation, but by the same token I feel that a life is a life is a life, and if you're "pro-life" you are, by extension, anti-capital punishment. Otherwise it's just a silly attempt to redefine what "life" means.

    For me, personally, I don't support abortion, but I also don't get real hung up on it either. I'm of the opinion the world is grossly overcrowded.
    On the capital punishment issue, you raise a good point & essentially turn my own argument against me. I acknowledge that there seems to be obvious inconsistencies when someone is pro-life as it relates to abortion & pro-death as it relates to capital punishment. For me personally, I have been a supporter of capital punishment simply because, at least in the Old Testament, God makes a distinction between the life of the unborn vs. the life of a murderer. Without that, there would be nothing (outside my own personal view on the subject) that would give me the grounds to be pro-life, yet also pro-death.

    I'll grant that you can make the argument that there is no such distinction repeated in the New Testament. And for me personally, I'm not nearly as supportive as capital punishment as I have been in the past. In fact, I don't even know if I would consider myself a supporter of capital punishment at all.

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    The thing with capital punishment is we hope the person it's carried out on at least did something that brought it to themselves. I admist the system could get innocent people and is not worth it in my opinion because of that risk, however a person sentenced to die by the state has committed a crime where an unborn child's only crime is being the consequences of a physical relationship between the child's parents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HT721 View Post
    The thing with capital punishment is we hope the person it's carried out on at least did something that brought it to themselves. I admist the system could get innocent people and is not worth it in my opinion because of that risk, however a person sentenced to die by the state has committed a crime where an unborn child's only crime is being the consequences of a physical relationship between the child's parents.
    I would draw the parallel that just as an innocent child is killed because his/her fate lies in the hands of the parents, an innocent person can be put to death (and have been) because their fate lies in the hands of a jury, prosecutors, witnesses who are incorrect, evidence not in evidence, inept defense....there are more, but I think you get my drift.

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    Alot of events of today are what many call "Sign of the Times", Wars and rumors of wars, civil unrest, disease, earth catastrophies as many would say the "End Times" are near, the bible also says watch for doomsday sayers for they can lead you astray from what the Lord command's you to do.
    A gentleman I talked to the other day said something to the birth of the Antichrist is when the sky shall turn black as smoke. With all the volcano's that seem to be erupting like in Japan and Hawaii, makes you think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    I would draw the parallel that just as an innocent child is killed because his/her fate lies in the hands of the parents, an innocent person can be put to death (and have been) because their fate lies in the hands of a jury, prosecutors, witnesses who are incorrect, evidence not in evidence, inept defense....there are more, but I think you get my drift.
    HT said that as much, pointing out that it wasn't worth "that risk." And I can completely accept that and acknowledge that is an excellent argument against the death penalty.

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    As a Christian, I cannot support the death penalty. My thought process is similar to Jim Schue's in that a life is a life. But, to take it a little further, I look at it this way. A fundamental Christian belief is sin. The wages of sin is death. All have sinned, thus we all deserve death. God, in his mercy, sent Jesus to take our punishemnt on Himself, and thus gave us a chance for salvation. Every day we live is an example of God's mercy. Who am I to say anyone deserves to die? Who am I to determine who deserves mercy? God forgives all sins. By carrying out the death penalty, a person's life is ended and their chances of forgiveness from God with it. I feel as Christians, we should extend the same mercy to the world that God extended to us. Where would we be if God had said, your sin deserves death, let it be done? I have no problem with them being sentenced to a life in prison. I just don't believe they should be executed.

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    Folks, I'm just as guilty as anyone of starting it, but if we could, please steer it back to the original question and away from the abortion/capital punishment argument. Thanks.

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