Tea Party Shoots Itself in the Foot Again

Page 4 of Originally Posted by Voice of Reason Regardless of the racial debate, the handling of this email by the Tea Party leader shows such a lack of judgment ... 155 comments | 5429 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm very well versed on history. I guess I'm stupid for not immediately separating people into groups by the color of their skin though...
    I concur with this point. To stand up for my contemporaries here, nothing is more insulting to insinuate people our age do not get it because of a lack of history or knowledge. We have grown up with Black History month, learned more about MLK Jr. maybe more than any other historical American person, and taught to accept all heritages, yet because we did not grow up during the Civil Rights era there is no possible way we can understand history?
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  2. #47

    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Well, I guess you are technically correct that I do not know what was in the heart of the person who crafted the email.

    I've got a big stack of money that I wouldn't bet on much but I'd bet on this and I'd be right.
    Your posts brings a lot of questions to mind that I'd like you to respond to since you are a pretty reasonable thinker:

    I'm interpreting the quoted post as you stating that you believe the lady intended the image to be racial and prejudicial and that you would bet on that being the case. Since you've acknowledged that you don't know what was in the heart of who crafted the e mail, wouldn't you be prejudging her (hence acting with prejudice) based primarily on the facts that she's a GOP official and evidently a member of the Tea Party or do you have more background info on the lady to instill the confidence to make such a bet? If the latter, please share.

    If she was a Dem elected official, would you make that same bet? If so, why? If not, why not?

    Assuming for argument purposes that she had racist intent, is such any indictment on all of the Tea Party? Is a Catholic priest abusing Alaskan kids an indictment on all of the Roman Catholic church?

    If continuing to belong to the Tea Party is somehow an endorsement of the supposed racist feelings of some Tea Party members, is continuing to belong to the Catholic Church an endorsement of the abusing priests?

    How are people, particularly elected officials, supposed to act and speak? Can they not express any feelings or words that will be offensive to some people? Yes some African Americans may be offended by the image. Is racial offensiveness some how a greater offense than political offensiveness? Religious offensiveness? Intelligence offensiveness? Occupational offensiveness (I can be quite offended my lawyer jokes)? Is there a ranking of offensivness and what is the order? Is some offensiveness okay but others not? Who makes that call?

    Is it okay to be offensive to a Caucasian President of this country about his lack of intelligence, but not okay to be racially offensive to the African American youth convicted of dealing crack?

  3. #48

    Quote Originally Posted by KyTmcNcc View Post
    More likely a lack of knowledge of history .

    Have to agree with the younger folks and I'm in my 50's. If I'd have first seen the image without the article, my first reaction would have been someone thinks President Obama is as dumb as a monkey (which for the record, I do not believe). I just don't think racism first, particularly when words are utterrd by a political official. I think politics.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm very well versed on history. I guess I'm stupid for not immediately separating people into groups by the color of their skin though...
    As a historian, did you take the 8 minutes to follow the link I posted in response to Woodsrider? It's an analysis of "Birth of a Nation." The portrayal of African-Americans in 1915 by the first "Blockbuster" movie of Cinema should lend some air to the conversation. It was even hailed by the then President of the US, Woodrow Wilson, as tragically true.

    I don't know of anyone who is versed in history that doesn't see that there are some things more "out of bounds" in our culture and that you just don't do because of societal history. Because of caricature the use of a money or gorilla to equate with African-Americans in our culture was common and widespread. If you have any sense of history it is obvious the difference in perception between the two uses with Obama and George W.

    I might add that it was less than 50 years ago that some African-Americans in my nearby community were beaten and jailed by local police for eating at a lunch counter that they were "banned" from. It was less than 50 years ago that some African-Americans were being murdered by a Klan, aided by local law enforcement and government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatz View Post
    As a historian, did you take the 8 minutes to follow the link I posted in response to Woodsrider? It's an analysis of "Birth of a Nation." The portrayal of African-Americans in 1915 by the first "Blockbuster" movie of Cinema should lend some air to the conversation. It was even hailed by the then President of the US, Woodrow Wilson, as tragically true.

    I don't know of anyone who is versed in history that doesn't see that there are some things more "out of bounds" in our culture and that you just don't do because of societal history. Because of caricature the use of a money or gorilla to equate with African-Americans in our culture was common and widespread. If you have any sense of history it is obvious the difference in perception between the two uses with Obama and George W.

    I might add that it was less than 50 years ago that some African-Americans in my nearby community were beaten and jailed by local police for eating at a lunch counter that they were "banned" from. It was less than 50 years ago that some African-Americans were being murdered by a Klan, aided by local law enforcement and government.
    Stop with the "history" lesson garbage. This isn't school, and yes I've seen the dang movie. Stop trying to act that just because you're older you have a more extensive knowledge of the history of our country and the plight of the African-American culture than the younger generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    Stop with the "history" lesson garbage. This isn't school, and yes I've seen the dang movie. Stop trying to act that just because you're older you have a more extensive knowledge of the history of our country and the plight of the African-American culture than the younger generation.
    Maybe knowledge of history isn't the issue. Maybe it's lack of personal experience with the issue. It's one thing to learn about something, but never experience it. History takes on a "life" when you're actually a part of it.

    I also find that people of all generations can know something happens, or happened, but refuse to believe that it's relative now.

    Personally, I think the biggest issue is not thinking before speaking, forwarding e-mails, writing, etc. Anymore, everyone is so anti-politically-correct that they don't realize that what they think is "politically correct" and they don't want to be a part of, is actually just good manners, and treating others as you'd want to be treated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockmom View Post
    Maybe knowledge of history isn't the issue. Maybe it's lack of personal experience with the issue. It's one thing to learn about something, but never experience it. History takes on a "life" when you're actually a part of it.

    I also find that people of all generations can know something happens, or happened, but refuse to believe that it's relative now.

    Personally, I think the biggest issue is not thinking before speaking, forwarding e-mails, writing, etc. Anymore, everyone is so anti-politically-correct that they don't realize that what they think is "politically correct" and they don't want to be a part of, is actually just good manners, and treating others as you'd want to be treated.
    You're right, I don't have any personal experience with people treating African-American's differently than anyone else. Maybe that's because my parents raised me to treat all people equally, that no persons were better than others. Sure, I learned all about the past treatment of blacks and other minorities, but as my parents always told me, "Just because it was like that back then, doesn't mean it has to be now."

    Maybe I'm naive, but the last thing that ever crosses my mind, if it does at all, when I meet someone new is skin color, ethnicity, etc. To me I'm just meeting a new person. Maybe I'm naive in thinking that in order for us to have true equality, we have to treat every group the same. I mean that's the true meaning of equality, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    You're right, I don't have any personal experience with people treating African-American's differently than anyone else. Maybe that's because my parents raised me to treat all people equally, that no persons were better than others. Sure, I learned all about the past treatment of blacks and other minorities, but as my parents always told me, "Just because it was like that back then, doesn't mean it has to be now."

    Maybe I'm naive, but the last thing that ever crosses my mind, if it does at all, when I meet someone new is skin color, ethnicity, etc. To me I'm just meeting a new person. Maybe I'm naive in thinking that in order for us to have true equality, we have to treat every group the same. I mean that's the true meaning of equality, right?
    But, that's you, and the way you were raised. Not everyone is raised that way. And you're parents are right, it doesn't have to be that way now. But the fact is that it is. We are not as far removed from bigotry and racism as people would like to believe. And I say this as an observer. I see this on an almost daily basis, when I hear/see people making assumptions about people they don't even know based on the color of their skin. And I do see and hear it first hand. It's not what I read on here, it's what I know from "real life".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoot Soup View Post
    For the record, swastikas are associated with far right-wing nutjobs, not the left.
    For the record. it was the nutjobs on the left that were portraying Bush as a Nazi, Hitler,etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    Stop with the "history" lesson garbage. This isn't school, and yes I've seen the dang movie. Stop trying to act that just because you're older you have a more extensive knowledge of the history of our country and the plight of the African-American culture than the younger generation.
    History unlocks the keys to the present. If you don't like the notion that there are facts that support a different view or understanding of a situation that may be beyond your experience or grasp then there is little else to be said.

    As to the tone of your retort, it shows more than I can say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cammando View Post
    For the record. it was the nutjobs on the left that were portraying Bush as a Nazi, Hitler,etc...
    I think it's fair to say we have plenty of Nazi imagery on both sides of the aisle ... and very little of it is relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan View Post
    You're right, I don't have any personal experience with people treating African-American's differently than anyone else. Maybe that's because my parents raised me to treat all people equally, that no persons were better than others. Sure, I learned all about the past treatment of blacks and other minorities, but as my parents always told me, "Just because it was like that back then, doesn't mean it has to be now."

    Maybe I'm naive, but the last thing that ever crosses my mind, if it does at all, when I meet someone new is skin color, ethnicity, etc. To me I'm just meeting a new person. Maybe I'm naive in thinking that in order for us to have true equality, we have to treat every group the same. I mean that's the true meaning of equality, right?
    Spare the sanctimony here. Just because someone realizes that there are some racial overtones to the e-mail and picture in question doesn't mean they look at everything as a racial issue. It's simply a recognition of how the imagery has been used throughout history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsider View Post
    Spare the sanctimony here. Just because someone realizes that there are some racial overtones to the e-mail and picture in question doesn't mean they look at everything as a racial issue. It's simply a recognition of how the imagery has been used throughout history.
    And please spare us.. It's the left that wants to keep the race card in play...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cammando View Post
    And please spare us.. It's the left that wants to keep the race card in play...
    I would greatly prefer that race never be an issue ... sadly, however, it is at times.

    Do you really not feel that, given the history of such imagery, an e-mail portraying Obama as a chimpanzee is a sensitive matter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Well, I guess you are technically correct that I do not know what was in the heart of the person who crafted the email.

    I've got a big stack of money that I wouldn't bet on much but I'd bet on this and I'd be right.
    Crafted the email, probably. The person we're talking about in this thread I say you lose your money.

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