Raising the Debt Ceiling

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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard View Post
    And that is how it is supposed to work. Appropriation bills do have to start in the House. But again, no one has brought forward an actual bill for debate. The reason this is an issue is that the House did not pass a budget in 2010 either.

    It would be good if the functions of government would do their job. There should be alternatives to CCB. But they should have been on the floor already. And McConnell tried to ignore his (and the overall Senate's) responsibility by passing the buck to the WH. Maybe that is why nothing came out of the Senate. Both Reid and McConnell would love to tag this on Obama and walk away. A least Boehner played the game. No one else seems to be showing up to even try to play the game of politics and having honest debate. Maybe things are so polarized that even the politicians do not want to 'discuss'/debate things on the floor anymore at all.

    It seems something will get done between Boehner and Reid at this point. But it will not be the end of a serious issue.
    I agree with all this. Boehner has impressed me during his entire tenure. I like the fact that he is trying to lead and is willing to stick his neck out there. McConnell is a political coward in this whole debt crisis. His whole goal is to try to hang Obama versus get a deal done. A very big thumbs up to John Boehner, and that is from someone who did not care much for him till he became Speaker.
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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    I said it was a sham ... that is not a typo. By that I mean, they passed the bill knowing it had no chance to be passed nor would it even be considered in the Senate. That bill was passed to win votes on election day more than any other reason.
    Mine was a typo, I meant to type sham not shame. And just because you think it was a sham doesn't make it so.

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    You won't often hear me say this, but Ben Stein was a voice of reason last night. Tea Partiers trying to implement way too much in the way of draconian cuts way too soon; balance the budget "over the cycle" (run a surplus during times of plenty and pay off the deficit that is run when times are tough), etc.

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    ^ That will never happen unless a balanced budget is made law..

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    For those wanting some recent history....

    http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/105193.pdf

    At least this report indicates the problem with a prolonged economic downturn...

    "An economic recession affects the federal deficit in several ways. First, falling
    prices of many assets and equities can sharply reduce federal revenues from capital
    gains taxes and from the corporate tax.
    Second, more difficult economic conditions
    may reduce tax revenues on earned income and other income sources. Third,
    “automatic stabilizers” such as unemployment insurance and income support
    programs pay out more money as unemployment rises and the number of households
    eligible for means-tested benefits rises. An increase in deficit spending provides a
    fiscal stimulus to the economy, if the output levels of goods and services produced
    in the nation are below their potential levels. Deficit spending, however, can help
    accelerate inflation if output levels are near or at potential levels, and in addition,
    exacerbates long-term fiscal challenges.
    "

    Bold emphasis added....sounds like CBO's analysis is at least honest with the current situation. This was published in 2008.

  6. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    I agree with all this. Boehner has impressed me during his entire tenure. I like the fact that he is trying to lead and is willing to stick his neck out there. McConnell is a political coward in this whole debt crisis. His whole goal is to try to hang Obama versus get a deal done. A very big thumbs up to John Boehner, and that is from someone who did not care much for him till he became Speaker.
    McConnell's Partisan statement last night just re-inforced this fact .

  7. #142
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    How important is your credit rating? What would you do to protect it? Unless something incredible happens in the next two days, it is almost certain that the US credit rating will be dropped for the first time in history. That puts us in an even bigger problem because it will raise the cost of financing our debt. As I have said repeatedly, if our leaders continue down this path of default and/or damaging the US credit, I will vote against every single incumbent regardless of party, Tea Party affiliation or not. Our debt and deficit have to get under control but we can not allow our credit to be damaged in the process. Lack of compromise equals lack of leadership on both sides. Get rid of them all.

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    Let me add another interesting point that I think will surprise many. Do you know that government spending has remained virtually flat over the past three years? I keep hearing people talk about how government spending is out of control but it isn't going up. Government spending is flat. Corporate profits are doing well and growing. If we can get this debt/deficit issue resolved (not in a short term fix), our economy is ready to make a big move forward, the jobs will follow, government revenues will increase and things will be going in the right direction rather quickly. The only roadblock now is our leaders (on both sides) in Washington making decisions to win votes instead of making the right decisions for this country.

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    How can we ever get term limits when the very people it would affect are the ones voting on the issue? #moreofthesame

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcpapa View Post
    You won't often hear me say this, but Ben Stein was a voice of reason last night. Tea Partiers trying to implement way too much in the way of draconian cuts way too soon; balance the budget "over the cycle" (run a surplus during times of plenty and pay off the deficit that is run when times are tough), etc.
    That is true. The deficit is a runaway train and needs to be stopped. That can be done by blowing up the tracks in front of the train. The train will stop quickly but there will a big mess after it is stopped.

    The Tea Party people feel the need to do something of note and that is principled, but the fix to this nightmare will not come in a single budget cycle. The foundation for long term structural fixes should be the focus.

    Instead of hacking and slashing specific programs maybe they could propose things like an across the board cut in federal salaries - including elected officials! Maybe institute hiring freezes and not backfill retirements. Just a thought, not even sure how much that would save but at least it would be a noticeable statement that Federal government is not immune to economic realities.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegrasscard View Post
    That is true. The deficit is a runaway train and needs to be stopped. That can be done by blowing up the tracks in front of the train. The train will stop quickly but there will a big mess after it is stopped.

    The Tea Party people feel the need to do something of note and that is principled, but the fix to this nightmare will not come in a single budget cycle. The foundation for long term structural fixes should be the focus.

    Instead of hacking and slashing specific programs maybe they could propose things like an across the board cut in federal salaries - including elected officials! Maybe institute hiring freezes and not backfill retirements. Just a thought, not even sure how much that would save but at least it would be a noticeable statement that Federal government is not immune to economic realities.
    We don't agree a whole lot (understatement of the year), but this makes sense to me. It's real tough - as we're finding out - to balance the budget during an economic downturn while waging two wars, for instance. Makes a lot more sense to look at the budget over the long haul.

    And a "balanced budget amendment" isn't necessarily the way to go about it. I've heard that the constitutional amendment process (2/3 of both houses, presidential okay and 38 states to ratify, I think) can take upwards of a decade; I really think that the whole amendment thing is a lot of political posturing.

  12. #147
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    It's time for the "radical centrists" to take control and return ethical responsibility to our government. Whatever happened to statesmanship and leadership? Now it's about nothing more than our team vs. your team, and who can come out looking like the winner to the most voters. We need compromise, not competition...creed, not greed...thinking, not positioning...and action, not faction!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdsfan View Post
    It's time for the "radical centrists" to take control and return ethical responsibility to our government. Whatever happened to statesmanship and leadership? Now it's about nothing more than our team vs. your team, and who can come out looking like the winner to the most voters. We need compromise, not competition...creed, not greed...thinking, not positioning...and action, not faction!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdsfan View Post
    It's time for the "radical centrists" to take control and return ethical responsibility to our government. Whatever happened to statesmanship and leadership? Now it's about nothing more than our team vs. your team, and who can come out looking like the winner to the most voters. We need compromise, not competition...creed, not greed...thinking, not positioning...and action, not faction!
    We need term limits. From this date on, I'm not voting for one single politician who does not believe in term limits. Career politician = crooks. They are stealing from us and our children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatz View Post
    Yet in Titletownclown's chart, the debt was much smaller and growing at a smaller rate during World War II, Korea and Vietnam. All of those wars engaged many, many more troops and naval resources. Why was the debt so much smaller? Were taxes higher to pay the costs then? Were social programs that much smaller in those days.?
    No it's well known that during those early wars there was a major shift within the working class. New jobs were being created to help support the war efforts and MANY MANY more women, more so than ever before were leaving their homes and entering the work force. That's just not the case today, these wars are not creating new jobs and not creating a new working class. I understand your point, but it just doesn't apply to this time and these wars.

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