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Clyde

I Don't Think We Can Solve The Heroin Problem

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Who is paying for that?

 

Having the program at an existing mental health facility (state hospital) I think would help in keeping costs down. Possibly divert some funds from the sale of lottery tickets and feed it directly into the program. Outreach to the private sector and charitable organizations (to include churches) to help with funding. For those that have insurance there must be a mechanism to help pay for some of the treatment on some of the policies. Mandatory jail time for anyone who leaves the facility before their time is up (18 months...pick a time). That would be an incentive to stick it out.

 

These are just a few of the things off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more that could be thought of.

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Not even remotely similar, but no I have zero sympathy for people who suffer from or are involved in any of those.

 

They are "remotely" similar in that the condition, like heroin, is self-induced. Difference is that the govt considers one illegal.

 

For clarification, you do think we should treat those from the 3 groups I listed, correct?

 

Is legality the only reason you differentiate them? Degree? Time?

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They are "remotely" similar in that the condition, like heroin, is self-induced. Difference is that the govt considers one illegal.

 

For clarification, you do think we should treat those from the 3 groups I listed, correct?

 

Is legality the only reason you differentiate them? Degree? Time?

 

The reason they're different is every time you smoke a cigarette you aren't risking eminent death. Every time you take a drink you aren't risking eminent death. Every time you eat a cupcake you aren't risking eminent death. None of those behaviors if done responsibly or in moderation will kill you. Every time you shoot up with heroin you're putting yourself at risk for eminent death. No matter how responsible you are in doing so or if done in moderation, you're still at risk of dying.

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Do you feel we should provide sympathy and/or treatment to the following:

 

1. Smokers

2. Alcoholics

3. Obese

 

We know cigarettes kill.

We know alcohol can rot the organs.

We know cupcakes are not good for us.

 

Not even remotely similar, but no I have zero sympathy for people who suffer from or are involved in any of those.

 

I agree with UKMF. The only people I feel for in those situations are their loved ones who want better for them.

 

Especially with obesity as it is often started as a lifestyle choice at a young age. This is coming from someone with a family history of heart disease, diabetes, and obesity. As a result I go to the gym 4-5 days a week and try to eat somewhat healthy. I've made a choice to care about myself and my health, something a lot of folks In this country fail to do until a doctor tells them to.

Edited by sportsfan41

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Like it or not but I think they prescribe the drug for users just like a Dr. prescription . Keeps the driver of road looking for a dealer and you can manage addiction per user, maybe will encourage one to quit. Just a thought.

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I work with an organization on the front line of the addiction battle and the stories of what addicts will do to get high while protecting themselves are amazing. They shoot up close to hospitals in areas where they will quickly be found so that they can get to the Narcan. For instance, parking in a crowded lot with their car running and their foot on the brake so their foot will slip off and the car will roll, thus causing a disturbance so they will be found and taken to a nearby emergency room. Other similar stories. It's crazy.

 

That is pretty crazy.

 

Seems almost to me like something like this is a last-ditch cry for help. Think about it: If the idea of getting high is to feel better, how good are you going to feel strapped to a hospital bed while you dry out?

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As a pharmacist it's a hard thing to say. Many of the "treatments" for heroin and narcotic addictions are through drugs like Subutex and Suboxone and those drugs haven't proven to actually get them off the drugs and instead they just end up switching addicted to one set of drugs to another.

 

There have been steps though in this field the last few months as Kentucky now allows dispensing of over-the-counter Naloxone which is the antidote for any opioids overdoses whether it's heroin, morphine, etc. without a prescription as long as the pharmacist is registered with that program. It's mainly used like an Epipen that is used with people who have anaphylactic reactions. They keep it around just in the "event" they might need it. Some people say that this enables some individuals to be more reckless with the drugs they are abusing knowing there is a reversal agent around to help them but I still think it does more good than bad.

 

I think the core of the problem that needs to be addressed is the psyche of this people causes them to fall into this addiction and lead them down this often destructive path but unfortunately that is a tall order to address and requires years and years of hard committing work to try to overcome the addiction and even then you will have relapses along the way. Someone has to really commit to breaking free of the addiction and some people just ever feel like they can ever get to that point. I'm of the mindset to try to limit the damage as much as possible from things like support groups and needle exchange programs to at least allow them to use clean needles for their business.

 

The state allows you to buy syringes over the counter without a prescription but does require you to state what they are being used for and unfortunately stating that they are being used for drug abuse is not a viable indictation for us to sell them. For insulin syringes, we require that the patient have an active insulin medication at our pharmacy or someone else's in order for us to sell to them. If it's for like Vitamin B-12 shot we will attempt to verify that as well. I'm of the notion that I'd like to see the the selling of syringes go completely restriction free in this regard as I'm of the belief that many drug addicts shooting up will use whatever needles are available to them and I'd rather them use a clean one instead of a dirty needles to prevent the spread of diseases like HIV, Hepatitis, etc.

 

But back on point, it's a VERY difficult problem to address as many peoples backgrounds, and personal lives cause these people to go down these terrible paths of addiction and drug abuse like the use of heroin. I think in the meantime we need to address the potential complications of the current epidemic and then tackle the societal/behavioral issues of the heroin problem because IMO it's that this going to fix the issue as no amount of reversal or anti-addiction drugs will cure the problem without having the willpower to see it through to the end.

 

....now my hands are tired from typing this all on my iPad :lol2:

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I think that plays a role. However, so many people are dying from overdoses that it seems to indicate to me that the high is still worth the risk even without the safety net.

 

I'm with you, I don't think many addicts are thinking they can OD and still get revived for their next high. Getting high is their goal and they don't really care about the ramifications since the high is too great to pass.

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We are now up to post 69 in this thread, and aside from me dedicating my entire post related to disallowing the drug from getting it to the county and all related topics regarding that, there have been two other very slight brushes by other posters with that topic as a possible solution or addressing the topic as if it were worthy of discussion.

 

Am I being idealistic for thinking that it's only logical that you correct the issue by stopping the drug from getting into the country??? (Patch the hole in the leaky roof to avoid always having to catch the drips with a bucket. The bucket is a temporary solution while fixing the hole in the roof is a long term solution), or is everyone else being idealistic by only seeing the problem from a local standpoint and thinking there's a way to correct it from that level?

 

The way I see it, once it's in the country we are screwed, which is now painfully evident. Now that it is here and continues to get in, we will never solve the issue.

 

How is it that no one seems to be concerned about stopping it from getting into the country or even discussing it?

 

Why is it that our local news will discuss the problem from a local standpoint while they and the national mainstream media never touch the topic of how it's getting into the country?

 

I'm guessing that many just might feel that stopping it from getting into the country is impossible, but what you're seeing now is impossible in finding a solution because it is steadily getting into the country.

 

Is it also I'm guessing that there are some who might not want to face the sad truth that it is our government, CIA, and military helping to enable the problem in our oh so do no wrong wonderful good ol U.S of A.?

 

Sure those factors all seem too big to conquer even if you're willing to accept them as the culprit, however it's really where the problem begins not to mention that 90% of the world's poppy is grown in Afghanistan and not in the U.S., so somehow it is freely flowing into our country without what seems much effort to stop it, nor the general public willing to talk about it.

 

I don't know... I certainly get why many are seeking a solution as that is certainly inevitable, but it baffles me to no end that no one cares to discuss the true and main root of the problem.

 

Sure the local community rallies to promote that our cities "hate heroin" are moving, cute, sweet and resemble a soccer mom pep rally full of emotion, but are just ultimately small peanuts and ill effective to eradicating the problem. As long as heroin is on the menu it will be the drug of choice and no cutzie wootzie get together will have much or any effect in making any sort of difference. I don't blame them for trying and it may sound as if I'm making mockery of the efforts but...

 

Really need to nail the issue from its root.

Edited by B-Ball-fan

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I'm in my 40s and enjoyed hs in the 80's where then kids drank, some smoked pot, and some did whippets (nitrous). Thanks to education and school programs such as DARE my friends and I simply avoided drugs. We were too busy chasing girls and yes having the occasional beer or three on the weekend!

 

Prevention via education is the only proven way to avoid heroine addiction in the first place. As for the addicts whose goal is to obtain complete escape from whatever pain or despair controls their life. Death certainly achieves the goal of complete escape!

 

Very few heroine addicts can recover and obtain and maintain sobriety. The ones that do typically have done so through spiritually based 12 step programs and have done so because they have chosen to live for a higher power or family member/s and have accepted that they have value and are loved.

 

Don't do drugs folks....especially extremely addictive drugs like heroine!

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While it sounds all nice and dandy to eliminate all of the morons who use heroin, think about all of the children that would be left with no family if you immediately killed off hundreds or thousands of moms and dads. I'm sure UKMF will tell us they'd be better off under someone else's supervision, but it's just not always the case. Some are loving parents who made dumb decisions in their past. I have been assigned hundreds of patients over the past year or so with heroin addictions (mainly those that have endocarditis due to IV drug use) and I can tell you not all of them deserve to be left to die.

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We are now up to post 69 in this thread, and aside from me dedicating my entire post related to disallowing the drug from getting it to the county and all related topics regarding that, there have been two other very slight brushes by other posters with that topic as a possible solution or addressing the topic as if it were worthy of discussion.

 

Am I being idealistic for thinking that it's only logical that you correct the issue by stopping the drug from getting into the country??? (Patch the hole in the leaky roof to avoid always having to catch the drips with a bucket. The bucket is a temporary solution while fixing the hole in the roof is a long term solution), or is everyone else being idealistic by only seeing the problem from a local standpoint and thinking there's a way to correct it from that level?

 

The way I see it, once it's in the country we are screwed, which is now painfully evident. Now that it is here and continues to get in, we will never solve the issue.

 

How is it that no one seems to be concerned about stopping it from getting into the country or even discussing it?

 

Why is it that our local news will discuss the problem from a local standpoint while they and the national mainstream media never touch the topic of how it's getting into the country?

 

I'm guessing that many just might feel that stopping it from getting into the country is impossible, but what you're seeing now is impossible in finding a solution because it is steadily getting into the country.

 

Is it also I'm guessing that there are some who might not want to face the sad truth that it is our government, CIA, and military helping to enable the problem in our oh so do no wrong wonderful good ol U.S of A.?

 

Sure those factors all seem too big to conquer even if you're willing to accept them as the culprit, however it's really where the problem begins not to mention that 90% of the world's poppy is grown in Afghanistan and not in the U.S., so somehow it is freely flowing into our country without what seems much effort to stop it, nor the general public willing to talk about it.

 

I don't know... I certainly get why many are seeking a solution as that is certainly inevitable, but it baffles me to no end that no one cares to discuss the true and main root of the problem.

 

Sure the local community rallies to promote that our cities "hate heroin" are moving, cute, sweet and resemble a soccer mom pep rally full of emotion, but are just ultimately small peanuts and ill effective to eradicating the problem. As long as heroin is on the menu it will be the drug of choice and no cutzie wootzie get together will have much or any effect in making any sort of difference. I don't blame them for trying and it may sound as if I'm making mockery of the efforts but...

 

Really need to nail the issue from its root.

 

I'd love to say we should shut down our Mexican borders and stop the drug from getting into the country. Hell, that's what Donald Trump and some others preach. But then liberals come in and strike that talk down immediately.

 

You're absolutely right. But I don't see it as being possible because of the left.

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I'd love to say we should shut down our Mexican borders and stop the drug from getting into the country. Hell, that's what Donald Trump and some others preach. But then liberals come in and strike that talk down immediately.

 

You're absolutely right. But I don't see it as being possible because of the left.

It's not possible because it's grossly naive and completely unrealistic.

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It's not possible because it's grossly naive and completely unrealistic.

 

And, if some are to believed, the US Government is the one that benefits the most from the Opium trade.

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They are "remotely" similar in that the condition, like heroin, is self-induced. Difference is that the govt considers one illegal.

 

For clarification, you do think we should treat those from the 3 groups I listed, correct?

 

Is legality the only reason you differentiate them? Degree? Time?

 

The reason they're different is every time you smoke a cigarette you aren't risking eminent death. Every time you take a drink you aren't risking eminent death. Every time you eat a cupcake you aren't risking eminent death. None of those behaviors if done responsibly or in moderation will kill you. Every time you shoot up with heroin you're putting yourself at risk for eminent death. No matter how responsible you are in doing so or if done in moderation, you're still at risk of dying.

 

Your answer is what I meant when I said "speed" i.e. the pace of it causing death.

 

You seem to be a "personal responsibility" guy which is why I asked the original question. Does the pace of the body decaying due to bad choices matter? You still KNOWINGLY caused your body to lose by eating/drinking/smoking.

 

Are there people that do not now smoking leads to issues?

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