What has Weis done that Willingham didn't?

Page 6 of Originally Posted by bugatti Then why did they even hire him if they are so racist in South Bend? Believe what you want, but I am not buying that at al... 130 comments | 2715 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #76
    UKMustangFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Family of 4, coming January 2019...
    Posts
    64,286

    Quote Originally Posted by All Play No Work
    Then why isn't Bob Davie still there? Did they want to get rid of him because he was.... what??? How about "Not a great coach"?

    19972001 Davie, Bob 35250 .583
    20022004 Willingham, Ty 21-150 .583
    Last time I checked 5 years is more time than 3 years....
    Advertisement

  2. #77

    Join Date
    Sep 01
    Location
    September 2005 and 2007: These guys got the brooms out a little early and were just unlucky.
    Posts
    3,848

    Notre Dame under Willingham lost by at least 30 points 5 times. For perspective, in the previous 40 seasons (1961-2000), Notre Dame lost by at least 30 points a total of 4 times.

    It's not like Ty got beat by a good team in the bowl games: Losing by 22 to NC State and 17 to Oregon St.

    Only at Notre Dame, or Kentucky in basketball, can a Coach who has taken both of his only teams to BCS games (Elite 8 in basketball) catch grief from a disgruntled fanbase. Truly unbelievable.

  3. #78

    Join Date
    Feb 05
    Location
    WHO DEY!!!
    Posts
    23,388

    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan
    ^Off the top of my head, I would have taken Wisconsin, Auburn, Rutgers, or West Virginia over Notre Dame. I feel any of those teams would have given LSU a much better game than ND did.
    Lets see Wisconsin a team from the Big 10, a conference who showed that they were overrated last year..Rutgers a team that lost to Cincinnati and I forget who else. WVU a team that lost to South Florida. While Notre Dame had 2 losses against two of the top 5 teams in the country. So hmmm yeah that definitely had Notre Dame just as qualified as those schools. So as I said, there really wasnt a single team that jumped out ahead of the other ones as being more qualified to go to the BCS over another. So Notre Dame had just as much right as those teams to, and since they are Notre Dame that is what got them the advantage since all the teams were equal...

  4. #79
    UKMustangFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Family of 4, coming January 2019...
    Posts
    64,286

    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach
    Lets see Wisconsin a team from the Big 10, a conference who showed that they were overrated last year..Rutgers a team that lost to Cincinnati and I forget who else. WVU a team that lost to South Florida. While Notre Dame had 2 losses against two of the top 5 teams in the country. So hmmm yeah that definitely had Notre Dame just as qualified as those schools. So as I said, there really wasnt a single team that jumped out ahead of the other ones as being more qualified to go to the BCS over another. So Notre Dame had just as much right as those teams to, and since they are Notre Dame that is what got them the advantage since all the teams were equal...

    All 3 of those teams wons their bowl games.....Something ND hasn't been able to do for some time.

    FWIW, I would bet WV beats ND by 2 TDs last year.

  5. #80

    Join Date
    Jan 03
    Location
    Have love in your heart and an ax in your hand. Hug and swing discriminately- Jim Wendler
    Posts
    15,356

    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime
    With Ty's players. Why can no one grasp this?
    Roy Williams won with Dougherty's players. Why does noone say anything about that??? His past successes that's why. Weiss was O-Coordinator for 3Super Bowl champions. He's from success.

  6. #81

    Join Date
    Feb 05
    Location
    WHO DEY!!!
    Posts
    23,388

    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan
    All 3 of those teams wons their bowl games.....Something ND hasn't been able to do for some time.

    FWIW, I would bet WV beats ND by 2 TDs last year.
    Yes those teams did. However thats easy to say that those teams deserved to more after seeing the bowl games. But before the bowl games, those teams deserved no more than Notre Dame to be in the BCS...

    Also WV might have beat ND, but we dont know. All I know is that it probably would have been a real high scoring game, because neither defense probably would have stopped the other....However WVU probably would have got pounded by LSU as well, because LSU had a great defense, and a good offense to go along with it that would have tore up WVU defense. The only team you mentioned who probably would have played with LSU in the superdome in front of a LSU home crowd might have been Auburn...

  7. #82

    Join Date
    Jan 03
    Location
    Have love in your heart and an ax in your hand. Hug and swing discriminately- Jim Wendler
    Posts
    15,356

    Quote Originally Posted by UKMustangFan
    One of my good friends is a huge ND fan, and he says the only reason Ty isn't still there is because he was black, and that ND was looking for any and every reason to get rid of him. I think there's a lot of truth to it.
    Your friend is a fool. Ty isn't there b/c Ty wasn't winning. Same reason that Davies isn't here. As soon as Holtz lost it, and he had much more success than Davies, Weiss, and Ty combined, they dropped him in a New York minute. Weiss gets the benefit of the doubt this year, but next year, his job is on the line. That's the name of the game. Get off the race card. It isn't the reason that everything goes bad in the world. It's a sorry excuse. If Ty would have won, Ty would still be coaching ND.

  8. #83

    Join Date
    Jun 02
    Posts
    32,704

    Quote Originally Posted by futurecoach
    Well hmmm Ty was at the same school at Notre Dame, but even the ND tradition didn't get his Notre Dame teams into a BCS...

    Also Tell me a team that would have deserved to be in a BCS game last year over ND. Because you can make a case for alot of teams for why they shouldn't be there. That at large spot that Notre Dame got had alot of teams that were just like Notre Dame, there was no team out there that you can make a convincing argument for on why they would deserve to more than Notre Dame. All the teams were about even when it came to that, and well so of coarse Notre Dame would get the nod then if the teams they were in competition with were about the same...
    I'm an ND fan. They didn't beat anyone that was good. You cannot get into the BCS with that.

  9. #84
    strike-3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 02
    Location
    Opie ain't no rat!
    Posts
    4,882

    As a Notre Dame fan, I honestly do not believe that Ty Willingham was fired because of his race. As a Catholic university, I would hope that the administration would be above that kind of thinking.

    Personally, for whatever reason I don't think that Ty Willingham was a good fit for Notre Dame. He never excited the fan base like Charlie Weis has. Perhaps Ty would have had more success if he was allowed to stay on as coach for Quinn's junior and senior seasons, and no doubt Weis benefited from having a quarterback with two seasons experience as a starter.

    While Ty did have a good 1st season going 10-3, that season could have very easily been 8-5. If not for the defense putting points on the scoreboard Notre Dame likely would have lost a couple of more. 2002 was a winning season but many of the wins were ugly. The offense only managed 17.2 points per game. To Ty's credit the offense did improve each season scoring 18.5 points per game in 2003 and 22.3 points per game in 2004. However, even as scoring improved the team never again finished over .500.

    By comparrison Charlie Weis came in and his offense scored 33.8 points per game in his debut season 2005. 2006 saw the offensive production slip to 28.8 points per game, but the record remained above .750. Including last weekends abysmal Georgia Tech game, Weis's offense at Notre Dame as been 10.8 points per game better than Ty's teams were while at Notre Dame.

    Someone earlier made the point that recruiting isn't always about the number of stars next to a recruits name, however, Southern Cal has been near the top the last several years and their on the field results tell a lot.

    I think that Ty's inability to bring in the big name recruits was the biggest reason why he is no longer employed by Notre Dame. The fanbase was disappointed with the quality of the recruiting classes that were brought in by Willingham. That disappointment combined with the fact that it was no secret how much time he spent on the golf course, made many of the fanbase eager to see Ty replaced.

    Ty's last 5 seasons has a head coach (2 at Washington) have produced a record of 28-32. His last 5 recruiting classes including the current verbals have been ranked by Rivals at #32, #40, #35, #36, #38. During that five year period Ty has signed 12 players total ranked 4-Star or above.

    Charlie Weis's first two recruiting classes while at Notre Dame were both ranked #8 by Rivals, and this years class is currently ranked #1. Weis has verbals from 15 players ranked 4-Star and above just this year, and has brought in a total of 40 players of this calibre since coming to South Bend.

    There will always be those that feel like Ty got a raw deal from Notre Dame, however, I feel like the majority of the fanbase is glad that he was let go, and if that is the case than Notre Dame likely made the correct decision. I feel like Notre Dame is in a much better position with Weis as the head coach than they would have been is Willingham was allowed to have remained the past two seasons. This year the Irish will be down as it is a rebuilding year (whether Weis will admit it or not) however, if Weis is as good of a coach as he is supposed to be than they should be back in the hunt for a BCS bowl by next season. I guess only time will tell.

  10. #85

    Join Date
    Jun 02
    Posts
    32,704

    Didn't Ty recruit a big-time high school qb who was a first round draft pick?

    The same one that Charlie reaped the advantages from?

    Did he recruit Tommy Z.

    Did he recruit the kid that the Bengals now have at safety as a rookie?

  11. #86

    Join Date
    Feb 05
    Location
    WHO DEY!!!
    Posts
    23,388

    Quote Originally Posted by cshs81
    I'm an ND fan. They didn't beat anyone that was good. You cannot get into the BCS with that.
    That is true, but they also didn't have any losses to bad teams like some of the other candidates did... Rutgers to Cincinnati, and WVU to South Florida...

  12. #87
    UKMustangFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Family of 4, coming January 2019...
    Posts
    64,286

    Quote Originally Posted by mexitucky
    Your friend is a fool. Ty isn't there b/c Ty wasn't winning. Same reason that Davies isn't here. As soon as Holtz lost it, and he had much more success than Davies, Weiss, and Ty combined, they dropped him in a New York minute. Weiss gets the benefit of the doubt this year, but next year, his job is on the line. That's the name of the game. Get off the race card. It isn't the reason that everything goes bad in the world. It's a sorry excuse. If Ty would have won, Ty would still be coaching ND.

    So then after this year when Weis goes 4-8, he should get fired. Ty didn't the benefit of the doubt why should Weis?

  13. #88
    strike-3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 02
    Location
    Opie ain't no rat!
    Posts
    4,882

    Quote Originally Posted by CentreRocks
    Notre Dame under Willingham lost by at least 30 points 5 times. For perspective, in the previous 40 seasons (1961-2000), Notre Dame lost by at least 30 points a total of 4 times.

    It's not like Ty got beat by a good team in the bowl games: Losing by 22 to NC State and 17 to Oregon St.

    Only at Notre Dame, or Kentucky in basketball, can a Coach who has taken both of his only teams to BCS games (Elite 8 in basketball) catch grief from a disgruntled fanbase. Truly unbelievable.
    Along those lines, Notre Dame haters always give the Irish such a hard time about playing the service academies, however, in his first year Ty only beat Air Force and Navy by 7 points each. He followed up that year by only beating Navy by 3 the following season. It also doesn't help that he lost to "Fredo" 3 years in a row.

  14. #89
    UKMustangFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 05
    Location
    Family of 4, coming January 2019...
    Posts
    64,286

    Quote Originally Posted by cshs81
    Didn't Ty recruit a big-time high school qb who was a first round draft pick?

    The same one that Charlie reaped the advantages from?

    Did he recruit Tommy Z.

    Did he recruit the kid that the Bengals now have at safety as a rookie?

    I'm pretty sure the answers to those questions is yes.

    What about that Jeff "weird last name" guy?

  15. #90
    strike-3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 02
    Location
    Opie ain't no rat!
    Posts
    4,882

    Quote Originally Posted by cshs81
    Didn't Ty recruit a big-time high school qb who was a first round draft pick?

    The same one that Charlie reaped the advantages from?

    Did he recruit Tommy Z.

    Did he recruit the kid that the Bengals now have at safety as a rookie?
    I don't think that anyone ever said that Ty never recruited any quality players, however, if you want to compare recruiting classes between Ty and Charlie the results speak for themselves.

Top