UFC 128 Results

Page 2 of Originally Posted by 5wide Did you lose respect for BJ Penn when he threw in the towel after the 4th round against GSP? BJ didn't throw in the towel, h... 63 comments | 2894 Views | Go to page 1 →

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by born2reign View Post
    I have not been hit by Shogun, but I have over 70 amateur boxing matches under my belt in New York state- I NEVER thought of quiting on my stool. I have been knocked out- I have been beaten up. I can't imagine being in that spot in a title fight and saying I quit because the guy is hitting me. I just do not see it. Maybe the fact that I have been in this spot clouds my judgement a bit- I'll admit that. I still can not see it happening. Getting beat up is as much a part of his sport as Brady throwing picks is a part of football- I just thought Shogun had more heart than that. Jon Jones questioned Shogun's heart going into the fight in an interview on ESPN; it looks like he was right about Shogun's lack of heart, IMO.
    Since you have been in similar situations you should know that once you are rocked, sometimes you don't even know what you are doing. It's very possible Shogun was out of his head when he "tapped". Regardless, I don't lose respect for someone who knows their done. No sense in taking a few extra unnecessary shots when the fight is over. And being in amateur boxing matches, while somewhat similar, isn't the same as being hit by Jon Jones' elbows, kicks and knees for 15 minutes, IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    Since you have been in similar situations you should know that once you are rocked, sometimes you don't even know what you are doing. It's very possible Shogun was out of his head when he "tapped". Regardless, I don't lose respect for someone who knows their done. No sense in taking a few extra unnecessary shots when the fight is over. And being in amateur boxing matches, while somewhat similar, isn't the same as being hit by Jon Jones' elbows, kicks and knees for 15 minutes, IMO.
    Shoguns still one of the baddest men in MMA IMO. He was just taking an unreal amount of punishment. Those shots Jones was landing from the guard were nasty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfback20 View Post
    Since you have been in similar situations you should know that once you are rocked, sometimes you don't even know what you are doing. It's very possible Shogun was out of his head when he "tapped". Regardless, I don't lose respect for someone who knows their done. No sense in taking a few extra unnecessary shots when the fight is over. And being in amateur boxing matches, while somewhat similar, isn't the same as being hit by Jon Jones' elbows, kicks and knees for 15 minutes, IMO.
    We are going to have to agree to disagree then, HB.

    Are there some other fighters out there (current of former)- I feel like if you are a fighter then maybe you would get me. Am I way off base? I am not talking about guys that go to the gym and do some tae-bo, I mean guys who have been in the ring- wrestlers, boxers, etc. Am I really over-reacting here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolamite View Post
    Shoguns still one of the baddest men in MMA IMO. He was just taking an unreal amount of punishment. Those shots Jones was landing from the guard were nasty.
    Nasty, true, but he didn't tap from those, dolamite. Again- I firmly admit that I could be over-reacting here. I need to take some more time and think about how I feel about tapping from strikes- just does not seem like something a fighter should do, IMO.

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    Okay- here is what I am willing to concede. If Shogun got injured by that knee that finished him, broke a rib or something where he knew he could not continue due to injury, then I think tapping is okay (even though guys fight whole fights with broken hands and ribs and noses all the time, I can see why he would, maybe, tap there).

    If he tapped because "it hurt", no dice. That equals no heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by born2reign View Post
    Okay- here is what I am willing to concede. If Shogun got injured by that knee that finished him, broke a rib or something where he knew he could not continue due to injury, then I think tapping is okay (even though guys fight whole fights with broken hands and ribs and noses all the time, I can see why he would, maybe, tap there).

    If he tapped because "it hurt", no dice. That equals no heart.
    Sounds good, I'm not trying to disagree or say your wrong at all. I just think that if he did "tap" it was just more less because he was so rocked he knew it was over anyway and he was just giving Herb Dean the heads up that it was fine if he stopped the fight. It was getting stopped regardless, I mean he wasn't defending intelligently and Jones was just dropping bombs. How Shogun got off the ground and backed himself into the corner into the first place I have no idea because IMO he was out on his feet the moment he stood up. Most title fights go on longer than they should before they get stopped and by that point Rua was so out of it everybody knew it was over, and he still had enough senses left to kind of show Herb to come save him. That's another reason why I think he dropped to his knees like that. He was still trying to cover his face and Jones didn't catch him with the knee until Shogun was already going down on his own. I think Shogun done all he could to hang in there but was just totally out of it by that point and was just doing whatever to get out of the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolamite View Post
    ^ About what I figured. If I had to guess I'm pretty sure Rashad knew Greg wasn't going to go for that, your supposed to support your teammates not challenge them. I also didn't figure anyone in the the Jackson camp would turn their back on Jon Jones, I mean who would? Still, just shows why I have had a dislike for Evans for a while now, he would rather leave the best camp in the world to go out somewhere else and train for a title shot against his former sparring partner. Now whats going to happen if Jones destroys him like he has everyone else? Then what? IMO Jackson, and especially Winklejohn have made Rashad Evans what he is today, once he has turned his back on them, whats next after he loses the title fight? Its hard to cross the bridge after you have already burnt it. I understand he wants to be the champion again after what happened to him in the Machida fight, but going out and admitting jealousy that Jackson welcomed Jones to Albuquerque in the first place just shows the type of guy Rashad is IMO.
    I know these guys have teams that they train with to prepare for fights but the guys that say they wont fight each other are not smart. MMA is not a team sport and everyones goal is to win the title in whatever weight class they fight in. Fighters dont have a very big window of opportunity to fight for world titles, make a lot of money, and do great things so when the opportunity comes they are dumb to not take it even if it means you have to fight a guy you like and train with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NHS BIG DADDY View Post
    I know these guys have teams that they train with to prepare for fights but the guys that say they wont fight each other are not smart. MMA is not a team sport and everyones goal is to win the title in whatever weight class they fight in. Fighters dont have a very big window of opportunity to fight for world titles, make a lot of money, and do great things so when the opportunity comes they are dumb to not take it even if it means you have to fight a guy you like and train with.
    I understand that and used to feel the same way. I used to always get mad that Silva and Machida would never fight, but after getting so mad about their situation it caused me to have a new found respect for guys not wanting to try and take from each other. The sport of MMA is built on respect and honoring those around you, even your opponent. Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida being so adament about never fighting each other really caused me to appreciate that aspect and I guess has caused me to feel ill will toward those who are willing to cut all of their ties. Still though you watch enough MMA NHS to know how close some of these camps are, its like family. Could you see anybody in Alpha Male wanting to take on Faber? Could you see anybody at Militich wanting a title shot against one another, or the guys from Extreme Couture? Like I said, totally understand where your coming from, I used to feel the exact same way, but for some reason I really gained a respect for those who value the support system that got them to where they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolamite View Post
    I understand that and used to feel the same way. I used to always get mad that Silva and Machida would never fight, but after getting so mad about their situation it caused me to have a new found respect for guys not wanting to try and take from each other. The sport of MMA is built on respect and honoring those around you, even your opponent. Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida being so adament about never fighting each other really caused me to appreciate that aspect and I guess has caused me to feel ill will toward those who are willing to cut all of their ties. Still though you watch enough MMA NHS to know how close some of these camps are, its like family. Could you see anybody in Alpha Male wanting to take on Faber? Could you see anybody at Militich wanting a title shot against one another, or the guys from Extreme Couture? Like I said, totally understand where your coming from, I used to feel the exact same way, but for some reason I really gained a respect for those who value the support system that got them to where they are.
    I can understand if they are in different weight classes and dont want to move up or down to fight each other (like Silva/Machida) but if your both elite fighters in the same weight class and both in the title hunt then you have to fight each other or one of you move to a different weight class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NHS BIG DADDY View Post
    I can understand if they are in different weight classes and dont want to move up or down to fight each other (like Silva/Machida) but if your both elite fighters in the same weight class and both in the title hunt then you have to fight each other or one of you move to a different weight class.
    I can go with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by born2reign View Post
    Long live the king- Jones wins and he looked as dominant as ever. I do not see how any of the top guys can beat him- no one can hit him!

    Great night of fights, IMO.

    Did anyone else see that Shogun actually tapped a split second after Herb Dean stopped the fight? I can not believe that Shogun would tap considering that he was not in a submission- in a sport where you get beat up, he tapped because he was getting beat up. This is a championship fight! Imagine if Tom Brady threw a couple of interceptions in the Super Bowl and then walked away and quit and gave the title to his opponent? I equate it to that, but maybe it is the emotion of the fight having just ended. I lost a lot of respect for Shogun for tapping there.

    That being said, I do not see how any of the current top 10 guys at lightweight can touch Jones- figuratively and literally. I think Jones can be knocked out, but I do not see anyone getting close enough to him to test my theory any time soon. His reach is incredible!

    The champions in each division are as dominant or have the potential to be as dominant as I have ever seen in the UFC. Who, at their respective weight class, do you see beating- Velazquez, Jones, Silva, St. Pierre, Edgar, Aldo or Cruz? Cruz and Edgar are the only guys that I can even conceive of being vulnerable, maybe Silva when he gets the rematch with Chael (I think Silva will dominate the rematch with Chael Sonnen once that happens).

    The other fights were pretty good- Jim Miller was very impressive. Urijah was too much for Wineland once he got the fight to the ground. Schuab KO'd Cro Cop. Nate dominated Dan Miller. This night is all about Jones, though, IMO.
    Did you lose respect for BJ Penn when he threw in the towel after the 4th round against GSP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolamite View Post
    ^ About what I figured. If I had to guess I'm pretty sure Rashad knew Greg wasn't going to go for that, your supposed to support your teammates not challenge them. I also didn't figure anyone in the the Jackson camp would turn their back on Jon Jones, I mean who would? Still, just shows why I have had a dislike for Evans for a while now, he would rather leave the best camp in the world to go out somewhere else and train for a title shot against his former sparring partner. Now whats going to happen if Jones destroys him like he has everyone else? Then what? IMO Jackson, and especially Winklejohn have made Rashad Evans what he is today, once he has turned his back on them, whats next after he loses the title fight? Its hard to cross the bridge after you have already burnt it. I understand he wants to be the champion again after what happened to him in the Machida fight, but going out and admitting jealousy that Jackson welcomed Jones to Albuquerque in the first place just shows the type of guy Rashad is IMO.
    My recollection of the events go something like this, but I could be wrong.

    First, Rashad said he wouldn't fight Jon Jones, a teammate. Sometime after that, Jones entertained the idea of fighting Rashad for the title. After Jones did that, Rashad's attitude changed and he too began to open up to the idea. I don't know the timeline as far as Rashad's injury, etc., but that is how I remember it progressing. So, I believe it is misleading to put it all on Rashad Evans.

    As for leaving the camp, that's a no-brainer. There's no way two guys who are fighting for a belt can be in the same camp with the same trainer, IMO. And, there's no way Greg Jackson can walk away from training the current titleholder, especially considering he's a guy that could potentially dominate the division like Silva and GSP in lower weight classes. Maybe Rashad left to save face rather than have them choose the other guy.

    And, of course, they now have a title fight to hype, so whether there is truly bad blood and hard feelings or not, they'll generate it.

    Jon Jones looks like a bigger, stronger, more athletic, more dynamic and more explosive version of Rashad in some ways. So, my initial thought is Jones will win. But, I've underestimated Rashad before. He is a tough, strong guy with very good wrestling and striking that has improved with every fight. I wouldn't count him out.

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    I read somewhere that Shogun looked gassed fairly early in the fight. It sounded similar to the Griffin fight in that respect, which was also a time when he was coming back from a long layoff due to knee surgery. I always hate when things like that happen in a big fight, because you're always unsure of whether you got the guys best or if he was less than 100% due to the injury.

    That said, I saw a Jones interview prior to the fight and he stated that he and his camp believed Shogun gassed because he didn't like to be pressured. He said Forrest was a big, strong guy that consistently pressured Shogun and took him down and wore him out. He felt like he was similar to Griffin in size and strength, only more explosive so he was equipped to carry out a similar game plan.

    I wonder if Jones is correct or if Shogun truly struggles with the knee injuries and subsequent layoffs.

    Who is interested in an Anderson Silva vs. Jon Jones superfight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5wide View Post
    I read somewhere that Shogun looked gassed fairly early in the fight. It sounded similar to the Griffin fight in that respect, which was also a time when he was coming back from a long layoff due to knee surgery. I always hate when things like that happen in a big fight, because you're always unsure of whether you got the guys best or if he was less than 100% due to the injury.

    That said, I saw a Jones interview prior to the fight and he stated that he and his camp believed Shogun gassed because he didn't like to be pressured. He said Forrest was a big, strong guy that consistently pressured Shogun and took him down and wore him out. He felt like he was similar to Griffin in size and strength, only more explosive so he was equipped to carry out a similar game plan.

    I wonder if Jones is correct or if Shogun truly struggles with the knee injuries and subsequent layoffs.

    Who is interested in an Anderson Silva vs. Jon Jones superfight?
    ME, ME, ME!

    I do kind of want to see the Silva vs. GSP fight first, if for no other reason that to give Silva more fights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5wide View Post
    I read somewhere that Shogun looked gassed fairly early in the fight. It sounded similar to the Griffin fight in that respect, which was also a time when he was coming back from a long layoff due to knee surgery. I always hate when things like that happen in a big fight, because you're always unsure of whether you got the guys best or if he was less than 100% due to the injury.

    That said, I saw a Jones interview prior to the fight and he stated that he and his camp believed Shogun gassed because he didn't like to be pressured. He said Forrest was a big, strong guy that consistently pressured Shogun and took him down and wore him out. He felt like he was similar to Griffin in size and strength, only more explosive so he was equipped to carry out a similar game plan.

    I wonder if Jones is correct or if Shogun truly struggles with the knee injuries and subsequent layoffs.

    Who is interested in an Anderson Silva vs. Jon Jones superfight?
    He did look gassed in the first round but it looked like it was more because he was getting whooped up on rather than just straight fatigue.

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