The Founding Fathers Were Clear- We ARE NOT, Nor Should We Be, a Christian Nation !!!

I'm sure that all the Constitutional scholars on here are familiar with these words:" Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." And yet, many on the right who proudly voice their support for the Constitution seem to be willing to wipe their butts with the founding document in hopes of establishing Christianity as the country's religion, precisely what the Constitution forbids.

Don't those who advocate for turning the US into a theocracy see the horrible parallels of religious excess in places like the Middle East and those we are starting to see here on our home shores? Of course, blindness to reasonable and rational thinking are the inevitable consequences of religious zealotry.

I maintain, and I think it's clear, that the the founders would be aghast at even the hint of intrusion of the Christian religion into our legislative process. And as much as it would have bothered Jefferson or Adams, it bothers me 230 years later.

We are not now, nor have we ever been a Christian nation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the founding papas explicitly excluded any reference to "God" or any other alternate expression for a higher power in the Constitution. Not one.... nada.

For those who continue to stubbornly insist that our nation was founded on Christian ideals need only to look at the the most important early documents in our history- The Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation, the Federalist Papers, and the Constitution. Read them all as I have and you must conclude that they testify without any ambiguity to our secular beginnings.

Oftentimes on here I read that we were founded on Christian ideals and the founding fathers intended for our nation to reflect Christian principles. Folks, it just isn't true. I am all for you believing whatever it is that brings you peace but those beliefs are to remain separate from the governmental process. All the time I hear folks talk about how the country has gone downhill after "they" took the Ten Commandments and prayer out of schools. Well, from my reading of those who penned the founding document, those things belong in homes and churches and not in schools or in the legislative process.

Feel free to disagree with me on any of these accounts. I don't mind at all.

I have friends and family that wouldn't necessarily agree. But I believe my views are in line with those whose names appear on the founding document of this country.

Do you think the founders wanted the Congress to enact laws that reflected Christian ideals or wanted no laws enacted respecting the establishment of ANY religion?

Thanks in advance for your contribution to this thread.

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

--- JOHN ADAMS

“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” ----JAMES MADISON(1774)

“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.”

---JOHN ADAMS

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.” --- T. JEFFERSON

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.” ---T. JEFFERSON(1787)

I agree with you. The Constitution is not designed to create the US as a Christian state, rather to permit the free practice of whichever denomination. People have bastardized the "Under God" part of the Pledge of Allegiance (which started in the 1930s?) and used it as fuel for this Bible thumping fire.

No way did the founders intend to force our country to be a Christian nation, but I also believe firmly that we were founded upon Judeo-Christian values.

I agree with some of what you said. When people say we are a Christian nation, I think they just mean that a simple majority of our citizens identify themselves as Christians.

I do not believe that it is the government's job to spread Christianity. I beleive it is the church's job.

While no religion is to be chosen over all the others, it never says that faith is to remain outside of government.

While no religion is to be chosen over all the others, it never says that faith is to remain outside of government.

I agree. But at what point does it become onerous to the rest of the population? The problem with faith intersecting with government is that all too often those in government with faith act upon their faith as though everyone they represent believes the same as they do. Kinda becomes a problem in Kentucky when you're not a Baptist.

I agree. But at what point does it become onerous to the rest of the population? The problem with faith intersecting with government is that all too often those in government with faith act upon their faith as though everyone they represent believes the same as they do. Kinda becomes a problem in Kentucky when you're not a Baptist.

All too often? Give me a few examples if you don't mind.

All too often? Give me a few examples if you don't mind.

Blue laws. Anti-gambling laws.

Blue laws. Anti-gambling laws.

Kentucky has had gambling forever...maybe not Vegas Style gambling but gambling at the tracks has always been here. A lot of states that aren't "Baptist" still don't have casino gambling. Anti-Gambling isn't always a Religious decision...KY doesn't have it because of the Horse Lobby, not because of Baptist.

Haven't Blue Laws pretty much completely gone away now?

Kentucky has had gambling forever...maybe not Vegas Style gambling but gambling at the tracks has always been here. A lot of states that aren't "Baptist" still don't have casino gambling. Anti-Gambling isn't always a Religious decision...KY doesn't have it because of the Horse Lobby, not because of Baptist.

 

Haven't Blue Laws pretty much completely gone away now?

Not even close. It's still a goofy patchwork from county-to-county, city-to-city, even though it's changing for the better.

http://abc.ky.gov/Local-Administrators/Documents/Ky_ABC-MAP_REV_10-2016.pdf

Not even close. It's still a goofy patchwork from county-to-county, city-to-city, even though it's changing for the better.

 

http://abc.ky.gov/Local-Administrators/Documents/Ky_ABC-MAP_REV_10-2016.pdf

If alcohol sales is your only test for Blue Laws, then maybe...I think of Blue Laws as business being forced to close on Sunday.

@Jim Schue Okay, you said "all too often" and have only mentioned two examples that are at best inconsistent across the country.

What is enforced country wide is Roe Vs. Wade, Same-Sex Marriage, pornography sales, and, maybe even in the future, marijuana.

@Jim Schue Okay, you said "all too often" and have only mentioned two examples that are at best inconsistent across the country.

 

What is enforced country wide is Roe Vs. Wade, Same-Sex Marriage, pornography sales, and, maybe even in the future, marijuana.

And certain states go out of their way to undercut federal laws relating to all those issues, usually based on the religiosity of their electorate. While I'm no fan of abortion, Kentucky has exactly one abortion clinic left after one closed down in recent weeks.

The phrase "state's rights" scares me as someone in a decided minority in Ky. And that's not even getting into the sordid history of what "state's rights" mean from a legislative standpoint.

And someone earlier mentioned the horse racing lobby as a block to expanded gambling in Ky., which is really silly. The horse lobby wants expanded gambling bad because they want a piece of that pie. There's a reason why the second floor of Churchill Downs got renovated to look like a casino some 12-13 years ago.

@Jim Schue Okay, you said "all too often" and have only mentioned two examples that are at best inconsistent across the country.

 

What is enforced country wide is Roe Vs. Wade, Same-Sex Marriage, pornography sales, and, maybe even in the future, marijuana.

Who is being forced to have an abortion, get "gay married," buy pornography or use marijuana?