United States Soccer

Originally Posted by Wireman

This is a very disappointing loss. I'm not sure the best players in the country are on the national team.

Just heard Tommie Smith on the Cowherd show and he had these observations:

1. US men's team isn't even in the top 25 in the world, mainly due to lack of talent.
2. Despite lesser talent, the US still should have won that match after being up 2-0. They kept playing to score and trying to make some kind of statement instead of tightening the defense and playing to win.
3. Men's soccer in the US is broken. Our best soccer players go to college and the rest of the world's best young soccer players go pro and get better against better competition. When our most talented players start skipping college and going straight to pro leagues to develop against better competition, we will develop better teams
4. US soccer is very different than soccer around the world. Youth soccer in the US is an elite sport that costs money for kids to play select and travel to tournaments. As a result, the inner city and economically disadvantaged youth in the US play other sports so US soccer is missing out on a whole talent pool. Around the world, everyone kid's dream is to play soccer whether they be from the city or the suburbs.
5. US women's soccer and the system has worked because the rest of the world didn't care about women's soccer. They did not devote resources to it. Now they are and they are catching up with the US women.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Just heard Tommie Smith on the Cowherd show and he had these observations:

1. US men's team isn't even in the top 25 in the world, mainly due to lack of talent.
2. Despite lesser talent, the US still should have won that match after being up 2-0. They kept playing to score and trying to make some kind of statement instead of tightening the defense and playing to win.
3. Men's soccer in the US is broken. Our best soccer players go to college and the rest of the world's best young soccer players go pro and get better against better competition. When our most talented players start skipping college and going straight to pro leagues to develop against better competition, we will develop better teams
4. US soccer is very different than soccer around the world. Youth soccer in the US is an elite sport that costs money for kids to play select and travel to tournaments. As a result, the inner city and economically disadvantaged youth in the US play other sports so US soccer is missing out on a whole talent pool. Around the world, everyone kid's dream is to play soccer whether they be from the city or the suburbs.
5. US women's soccer and the system has worked because the rest of the world didn't care about women's soccer. They did not devote resources to it. Now they are and they are catching up with the US women.

That all sounds about right. It is evident even in games against much smaller countries we are playing on our heels virtually every time because of the talent gap. Seems like every game against better teams the US is just hanging on for dear life.

Soccer should be one of the cheapest sports to play, but for whatever reason, it's a silver spoon sport here in the US. Would soccer get a stonghold in our inner cities? I don't think that it will. Soccer is seen as a soft sport, and that reputation doesn't fly in the streets. It would be nice if some of our best point guards would concentrate on soccer. It seems that soccer is tailored made for guys 5'8"-6'2" w/ vision, speed, and the ability to move w/out the ball. We spit out more than enough point guards throughout college basketball.

Originally Posted by mexitucky

Soccer should be one of the cheapest sports to play, but for whatever reason, it's a silver spoon sport here in the US. Would soccer get a stonghold in our inner cities? I don't think that it will. Soccer is seen as a soft sport, and that reputation doesn't fly in the streets. It would be nice if some of our best point guards would concentrate on soccer. It seems that soccer is tailored made for guys 5'8"-6'2" w/ vision, speed, and the ability to move w/out the ball. We spit out more than enough point guards throughout college basketball.

I concur. The cheap sport to play in the US is basketball.

A few friends and myself were discussing recently the reasons why other countries are leaps and bounds ahead of the United States in international and club competitions (Manchester United made a rout of the MLS All-Stars 5-2 just last year). One of my friends was incessant on bringing up the argument that soccer loses 9/10's of the athletes to base/foot/basketball, while in foreign countries, many of the top athletes are funneled into youth soccer clubs/development programs that launch them professionally at young ages. It is no question that soccer in the United States is honestly decades away from being even remotely comparable to teams in say the Barclays Premier League or La Liga for instance. Is it really because top athletes are directed towards more popular sports or is it in the inherent risk that high school-age players face in going professional at such young ages (with pressures from parents and teachers to earn college degrees as a 'back up' for potentially short and unproductive soccer careers)? We are so far behind -- can we ever catch up? I think not, honestly.

Last year, during the World Cup, former German star and coach Jurgen Klinsmann (who lives in the USA and has been mentioned as a potential coach here someday) stated that American soccer will never match the European, African and South American countries in terms of development because, in those countries, the sports there are as grass-roots as basketball and football are here.

His rationale was that poor kids in all of those countries aspire to be professional soccer players, while in this country, the game is mostly played by the middle class and above.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Just heard Tommie Smith on the Cowherd show and he had these observations:

1. US men's team isn't even in the top 25 in the world, mainly due to lack of talent.
2. Despite lesser talent, the US still should have won that match after being up 2-0. They kept playing to score and trying to make some kind of statement instead of tightening the defense and playing to win.
3. Men's soccer in the US is broken. Our best soccer players go to college and the rest of the world's best young soccer players go pro and get better against better competition. When our most talented players start skipping college and going straight to pro leagues to develop against better competition, we will develop better teams
4. US soccer is very different than soccer around the world. Youth soccer in the US is an elite sport that costs money for kids to play select and travel to tournaments. As a result, the inner city and economically disadvantaged youth in the US play other sports so US soccer is missing out on a whole talent pool. Around the world, everyone kid's dream is to play soccer whether they be from the city or the suburbs.
5. US women's soccer and the system has worked because the rest of the world didn't care about women's soccer. They did not devote resources to it. Now they are and they are catching up with the US women.

A serious question. How different is this than youth/AAU basketball?

Originally Posted by mexitucky

Soccer should be one of the cheapest sports to play, but for whatever reason, it's a silver spoon sport here in the US. Would soccer get a stonghold in our inner cities? I don't think that it will. Soccer is seen as a soft sport, and that reputation doesn't fly in the streets. It would be nice if some of our best point guards would concentrate on soccer. It seems that soccer is tailored made for guys 5'8"-6'2" w/ vision, speed, and the ability to move w/out the ball. We spit out more than enough point guards throughout college basketball.

Maybe off topic, but I think that new ESPN commercial (MY ANKLE!) is hilarious.

Originally Posted by mcpapa

A serious question. How different is this than youth/AAU basketball?

At the highest levels of basketball, I doubt the kids and their families have to pay much, if anything.

USA women are up 2-0 with 12 minutes left in the game.

Originally Posted by mcpapa

A serious question. How different is this than youth/AAU basketball?

Originally Posted by westsider

At the highest levels of basketball, I doubt the kids and their families have to pay much, if anything.

I think westsider is right that AAU has a lot of outside money that supports the high level teams. There also are many basketball leagues just below AAU that make it easy for anyone with talent to compete. Plus there is so much support in our culture, if a kid has talent and/or size, some team/coach will grab him. I don't think any of that happens in soccer. It really is a cultural issue more than anything else IMO.

Bob Bradley may be in trouble:

The question to Gulati on Tuesday was simple and straightforward: Will Bob Bradley remain coach of the U.S. national team?

His answer (in an email response) was, “We’ll have something to say later this week.” U.S. Soccer officials later said that Gulati’s one sentence response was not intended to imply that he was planning to make a coaching change.

Source

Unfortunately for fans of US Soccer, I think we're stuck with a lot more questions than answers right now:

- Even if we fired Bradley, who would replace him? We experienced last summer the problems with bringing in certain coaches, Jurgen Klinsmann demanded a level of control and an amount of money with which the USSF was not willing to part. With the federation unwilling to hand over control and SERIOUS money, what are the options at head coach?

- We face serious problems from a personnel standpoint. Not only were the best players perhaps not selected for this team, the best players may not even be in the current player pool from which Bradley and the USSF draw the team. The very complex question we have before us now is, "Is our player development system actually working?" My own opinion is that we're only beginning to see the fruits of the academy system that came up with the rise of MLS. We need professional soccer to continue to develop in this country and for more teams to arise in order for the academy system to continue doing its job.

- The most interesting question might be: "What is an acceptable goal for this country right now?" Do we seriously believe that we should be better at this game than Mexico, a country crazy about the sport and that is the most populous nation in the Spanish-speaking world? Is making the knockout round but not necessarily advancing at the World Cup somehow less than what we should expect? There aren't very many countries that can claim to have made it out of the group stage at three of the past five World Cup tournaments. We're the second-best team in CONCACAF and we will still undoubtedly qualify for the 2014 Cup. The sky is not falling, so what do we want from the national team?

Originally Posted by Getslow

The most interesting question might be: "What is an acceptable goal for this country right now?" Do we seriously believe that we should be better at this game than Mexico, a country crazy about the sport and that is the most populous nation in the Spanish-speaking world? Is making the knockout round but not necessarily advancing at the World Cup somehow less than what we should expect? There aren't very many countries that can claim to have made it out of the group stage at three of the past five World Cup tournaments. We're the second-best team in CONCACAF and we will still undoubtedly qualify for the 2014 Cup. The sky is not falling, so what do we want from the national team?

I agree ... perhaps our expectations are a little out of whack, and some of that is probably fueled by the surprising play at the Confederations Cup in 2009. Everybody remembers that we upset Spain and led Brazil for a good portion of the match, but they forget that we qualified for the semifinals only because Italy whacked Egypt in the final game of the group stage, allowing the USA to advance on goal differential.

Look at how many Mexico fans were in the Rose Bowl on Saturday night ... they probably had the USA supporters outnumbered by a 2-1 margin, if not more so.

Originally Posted by westsider

Look at how many Mexico fans were in the Rose Bowl on Saturday night ... they probably had the USA supporters outnumbered by a 2-1 margin, if not more so.

Absolutely. My guess is that the breakdown was probably close to 70-30... maybe even 80-20.

Originally Posted by Getslow

Unfortunately for fans of US Soccer, I think we're stuck with a lot more questions than answers right now:

- Even if we fired Bradley, who would replace him? We experienced last summer the problems with bringing in certain coaches, Jurgen Klinsmann demanded a level of control and an amount of money with which the USSF was not willing to part. With the federation unwilling to hand over control and SERIOUS money, what are the options at head coach?

- We face serious problems from a personnel standpoint. Not only were the best players perhaps not selected for this team, the best players may not even be in the current player pool from which Bradley and the USSF draw the team. The very complex question we have before us now is, "Is our player development system actually working?" My own opinion is that we're only beginning to see the fruits of the academy system that came up with the rise of MLS. We need professional soccer to continue to develop in this country and for more teams to arise in order for the academy system to continue doing its job.

- The most interesting question might be: "What is an acceptable goal for this country right now?" Do we seriously believe that we should be better at this game than Mexico, a country crazy about the sport and that is the most populous nation in the Spanish-speaking world? Is making the knockout round but not necessarily advancing at the World Cup somehow less than what we should expect? There aren't very many countries that can claim to have made it out of the group stage at three of the past five World Cup tournaments. We're the second-best team in CONCACAF and we will still undoubtedly qualify for the 2014 Cup. The sky is not falling, so what do we want from the national team?

The expectations went up in 2002 with USA's quarterfinal appearance in the World Cup and had a good shot against Germany. They rose in the rankings because of FIFA's goofy system. Didn't they get up to #2 just before the '06 WC? Realistically they should be happy to make it to the knockout round. Everything else is icing on the cake.

I also wonder if Mexico could be considered a legitmate contender for the World Cup in 2014 ... Hernandez has emerged as a star in England and Europe, and it makes you wonder if some of their other young talent could blossom if give a chance on the other side of the pond.

Originally Posted by westsider

I also wonder if Mexico could be considered a legitmate contender for the World Cup in 2014 ... Hernandez has emerged as a star in England and Europe, and it makes you wonder if some of their other young talent could blossom if give a chance on the other side of the pond.

Mexico has made the knockout stage in the last five World Cups, one of only I believe 3 countries that can make that claim. However, in all five tournaments, they lost that first Round of 16 game. When they actually win a knockout stage match, I'll believe they're for real.

That said, while they do have some serious talent involved up front, I'm not convinced they have the world-class players necessary on defense and in the middle to contend for a title. Look at Spain in 2010 and Italy in 2006, unbelievable talent playing for the top clubs in the world at every position. Simple truth is that there are only a few countries with the talent to contend in any given year. Only eight countries have ever won a title: Brazil, Italy, Germany, Argentina, Uruguay, England, France, Spain... and among them, Brazil holds 5, Italy 4, Germany 3... there are VERY few countries that can make that step. Mexico has even hosted twice and yet has never made a semifinal.

Originally Posted by Getslow

Mexico has made the knockout stage in the last five World Cups, one of only I believe 3 countries that can make that claim. However, in all five tournaments, they lost that first Round of 16 game. When they actually win a knockout stage match, I'll believe they're for real.

That said, while they do have some serious talent involved up front, I'm not convinced they have the world-class players necessary on defense and in the middle to contend for a title. Look at Spain in 2010 and Italy in 2006, unbelievable talent playing for the top clubs in the world at every position. Simple truth is that there are only a few countries with the talent to contend in any given year. Only eight countries have ever won a title: Brazil, Italy, Germany, Argentina, Uruguay, England, France, Spain... and among them, Brazil holds 5, Italy 4, Germany 3... there are VERY few countries that can make that step. Mexico has even hosted twice and yet has never made a semifinal.

They're ranked ninth by FIFA right now, which at least puts them in the second or third tier of contenders. I've always thought Mexico was a bit of an underachiever, but I wonder if Hernandez's success in Europe (unexpected by some) will open some doors for some of their other players. That would have to help, I think.

Originally Posted by westsider

They're ranked ninth by FIFA right now, which at least puts them in the second or third tier of contenders. I've always thought Mexico was a bit of an underachiever, but I wonder if Hernandez's success in Europe (unexpected by some) will open some doors for some of their other players. That would have to help, I think.

Well it certainly can't hurt. But by that same token, Giovani Dos Santos recently failed to make his expected splash with Tottenham Hotspur, spending a lot of time out on loan after failing to impress over the past few seasons... and I think he's a very good player (He certainly made several Americans look useless on Saturday evening.).

Besides, Americans and Mexicans both face a tough road trying to catch on in Europe. Clint Dempsey only had one less league goal this year than Chicharito (and for a club that can't pour it on nearly as heavily as Man U) and I don't necessarily think we'll see a flood of American players to the EPL due to his success.